What has the UK become?

[inbetween]

Never forget that Abraham Lincoln once said that 87% of the statistics on the internet are made up.

It‘s not about left or right. It’s people struggling in everyday life seeking solutions and we’ve sadly succumbed to populists like Farage who offer simple, yet unworkable, solutions to complicated issues.

They‘re now starting to be found out as more and more are affected by their ineptitude, immorality and shallowness.

Social media has also changed how people perceive left and right. Anything that isn’t their view is far the opposite of their view. Some also being Chés into it, because they think it decorates their point.

Social media has also given a voice to the undereducated to have emotional reactions to things without a thought of nuance.

Whether Trump gets back in or not will probably define how the world is in a few decades.

The truth matters. That seems to have been lost for a fair while now.

The only reason you feel this perception is as you say because of social media. The US hasn't lurched suddenly to the far-right or even really the right, Trump is entirely a social media phenomenon who carries no flag or allegiance.

If he does get in then this will come down to the simple fact that 51% of the US electorate had no other choice. The alternative to Trump is an 81 year old who is not physically or mentally able to lead a country. Why not ask the question of how the hell is Biden the only alternative to Trump in a country of 330 million people?

The only way we'll move forward as a civilisation is if we can somehow put this pointless game of politics aside and start to work together towards common goals. Until then left or right... What does it matter? The shelf life of a political party is 5 year and there's very little you can actually do in 5 years. By the time those 5 years are up the policy committees have barely decided upon a brand of tea to drink at their meetings.

Personally I believe it's time for a technocracy, the current system is not working and actually has never worked, politics is just a game for elitist fools. These political threads prove themselves that the new invention of social media coupled with politics only makes us hate each other and it's actually making us ill.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

The only reason you feel this perception is as you say because of social media. The US hasn't lurched suddenly to the far-right or even really the right, Trump is entirely a social media phenomenon who carries no flag or allegiance.

If he does get in then this will come down to the simple fact that 51% of the US electorate had no other choice. The alternative to Trump is an 81 year old who is not physically or mentally able to lead a country. Why not ask the question of how the hell is Biden the only alternative to Trump in a country of 330 million people?

The only way we'll move forward as a civilisation is if we can somehow put this pointless game of politics aside and start to work together towards common goals. Until then left or right... What does it matter? The shelf life of a political party is 5 year and there's very little you can actually do in 5 years. By the time those 5 years are up the policy committees have barely decided upon a brand of tea to drink at their meetings.

Personally I believe it's time for a technocracy, the current system is not working and actually has never worked, politics is just a game for elitist fools. These political threads prove themselves that the new invention of social media coupled with politics only makes us hate each other and it's actually making us ill.

Most of that post is irrelevant. The last sentence is true.

The US has never had a left wing. We’ve followed suit recently and become reactionary, because of social media. It’s given everybody a voice, whether educated or moral.

Trump has given confidence to “extremists” and grifters. That’s created populists to suggest simple solutions to comple problems.

2015-2030 will be an extremely well studied period of human history.

 

[inbetween]

Most of that post is irrelevant. The last sentence is true.

The US has never had a left wing. We’ve followed suit recently and become reactionary, because of social media. It’s given everybody a voice, whether educated or moral.

Trump has given confidence to “extremists” and grifters. That’s created populists to suggest simple solutions to comple problems.

2015-2030 will be an extremely well studied period of human history.

The only way to make ground on these sort of things is not to call them out and play the game but rather to offer an alternative. In the US there is no alternative, you either vote for Trump or Biden and just like in 2020 the latter is running on the simple fact that he isn't Trump.

It's the same in the UK. Labour do not have any real policies and they will not run their election campaign on any real policy base. Their election campaign slogan could quite simply say "we aren't the Tories" and they'll win.

Politics is becoming more about identity than what is written in a manifesto or similar. This is why though at the heart of things nothing will actually change, Labour will get in and literally nothing will change. The lack of change will piss people off and then guess what yes the populists will be there with the loudest answers.

Personally again I want a technocracy, let Labour and the Tories fight over irrelevant battles but let people who know they're talking about do the rest. I am not interested in whether a man should be called a man, I want to see somebody who's worked in transport infrastructure to stand up and come and sort our railways out.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

The only way to make ground on these sort of things is not to call them out and play the game but rather to offer an alternative. In the US there is no alternative, you either vote for Trump or Biden and just like in 2020 the latter is running on the simple fact that he isn't Trump.

It's the same in the UK. Labour do not have any real policies and they will not run their election campaign on any real policy base. Their election campaign slogan could quite simply say "we aren't the Tories" and they'll win.

Politics is becoming more about identity than what is written in a manifesto or similar. This is why though at the heart of things nothing will actually change, Labour will get in and literally nothing will change. The lack of change will piss people off and then guess what yes the populists will be there with the loudest answers.

Personally again I want a technocracy, let Labour and the Tories fight over irrelevant battles but let people who know they're talking about do the rest. I am not interested in whether a man should be called a man, I want to see somebody who's worked in transport infrastructure to stand up and come and sort our railways out.

Imagine what AI could do with technocracy.

Cambridge Analytica has already done untold damage already.

Nothing will change until we actually start caring for all our people, not just trying to keep foreigners from having the same treatment as natives.

Destructive policies need to end. It’s time to think positively Aand see what is possible, rather than restrictively and what isn’t.

 

[jim tolmies perm]

A "love-in , hippie" technocracy..yes that's the answer....))

 

[Vic]

Immigration is driven by people and circumstance. We have been importing labour and skills since - well, the early 1800’s with the Irish - and exploitation of that labour is often part of that equation, but there is nothing to stop the accepting country ensuring that conditions and pay are acceptable and exploitation is minimal.

A population that is hostile to immigrants - no matter how necessary - will be a barrier to fair treatment. ‘Immigrants get it easy/are favoured over native populations etc’ allowing Govts and business to exploit/mistreat immigrants. The UK is a classic of this genre. We spend half our waking moments bemoaning immigrants/freedom of movement, made ourselves miserable in the process and ended up with record levels of migration (okay, still makes me laugh). It also has landed itself with a Govt legislating that the earth is flat, Rwanda is a paradise and is no longer processing asylum applications because it can no longer perform the basic functions of Govt. Another feature of battling reality is that it erodes basic competence.

In short, I’m just pointing out the reality of how the world works and what a developed country like the UK needs to function. You are free not to like it - I’m not keen on how some things have turned out either - but reality, alas, doesn‘t care.

Half the population of Norwich were immigrants at one time. Bloody Flemish weavers coming here and teaching us new skills.

 

[Vic]

Odd that we have been the 4th 5th biggest economy for a long time under this cracking idea of growth caused by inflation and population growth but:-

Transport is shit
Education is poor
Roads are crumbling
The air is shit
The water is filled with turds
Their aren't enough houses
Our armed forces have dwindled
Coppers appear to be hiding or actually committing crimes
1000s of shop get ransacked daily.

And I haven't even touched the surface. But it's the only way?

What happens when population eventually stops growing which it must at some point. Who looks after the elderly then, who does the jobs we don't want to do?

Why wait until we have destroyed everything and then have to do something?

Simple we will all be dead by then so who gives a fuck.?

You missed off growing disparity of wealth.

 

[threespires]

Why is the topic of immigration constantly comming back on this thread? its not like the Op started the thread on that issue ... last 15 pages has been mostly on that as if thats the singular issue that is making the Uk regress? Surely not right?

For a number of years we have had a government who have indulged in dog whistle politics to attempt to divert attention from their policy direction, incompetence and seemingly in some cases near or actual criminality. As we approach the next election where it seems they will lose heavily they have further ramped up the rhetoric in a desperate attempt to shore up at least some of their support. A small percentage of people seem to be receptive to this and they can pop up in many places including here. The majority of people are just sick and tired of the country being run into the the ground by the current administration.

In answer to the OPs original question I think the UK has become the "logical" conclusion to an experiment that started in the 1980s that used the UK as a giant Petri dish to try a form of unfettered capitalism that had never been tried at such scale in a country like ours. It's a failed experiment that has left us amongst other things with a much more unequal society, the erosion of an unusual form of collectivism that had broadly served us very well post WWII, a media landscape worthy of a tinpot dictatorship in the arse end of nowhere, a diminished place in the world and a crisis of identity. Whilst ultimately the electorate of the country is responsible for this, I liken it to the smooth talking door to door salesman* spiv who robs an old couple of their life savings by 'legal' means.

Some people might suggest this shows a lack of patriotism on my part and that maybe I should leave if I feel that way. My counter argument would be that I feel this way precisely because I realise how lucky I was to be born in the UK, so to watch it be diminished by spivs and charletons for their own enrichment fills me with horror. Much rather than leave I would prefer us to recognise the real parasitic infestation in this country, which is not people on benefits or those bobbing about in the cold of the channel, but the party in power and the particular form of capitalism they represent, and rid ourselves of that infestation. Those who facilitate and continue to support it would be very welcome to go with them.

In short I want my country back, and anyone who thinks it's been stolen as a result of anything to do with immigration, has 100% not been paying attention.

(* I realise most door to door salesman would have been honest hardworking people).

 

[hilts]

You missed off growing disparity of wealth.

Like i said haven't even touched the service

 

[mexico1970]

I heard somewhere 68% of the UK population are left leaning, one of the highest in Europe.

That would never explain how the Tories got in for so long, maybe the poll was done by the guardian?