What has the UK become?

[threespires]

That would never explain how the Tories got in for so long, maybe the poll was done by the guardian?

Seems counter intuitive but I suppose its possible because of the way our electoral system works. If for example the near third of people who don't exercise their vote are more 'left leaning' by whatever measure was used that would have an impact (though if you don't use your vote are you actually anything?). Probably more pertinently if that left leaning sentiment is split across a couple of parties that would impact things in our system. I think historically FPTP has benefited the Tories, but we're now in a place where that party discipline has gone and the right's vote is splintering at least as much. Either way I think FPTP has had it's day and I'd like to see everyone's vote count, whether I agree with them or not.

 

[mexico1970]

Seems counter intuitive but I suppose its possible because of the way our electoral system works. If for example the near third of people who don't exercise their vote are more 'left leaning' by whatever measure was used that would have an impact (though if you don't use your vote are you actually anything?). Probably more pertinently if that left leaning sentiment is split across a couple of parties that would impact things in our system. I think historically FPTP has benefited the Tories, but we're now in a place where that discipline has gone and the right's vote is splintering at least as much. Either way I think FPTP has had it's day and I'd like to see everyone's vote count, whether I agree with them or not.

Not a chance the Tories get in with those numbers, if you take away the left wing nutters and the right wing nutters you'll be left with centrist voters who would/could sway either way.

Left-wing vs right-wing: it’s complicated | YouGov

YouGov shows that the left-wing to right-wing political spectrum is actually much more complex than previously thought when it comes to public opinion

yougov.co.uk

 

[threespires]

Not a chance the Tories get in with those numbers, if you take away the left wing nutters and the right wing nutters you'll be left with centrist voters who would/could sway either way.

Left-wing vs right-wing: it’s complicated | YouGov

YouGov shows that the left-wing to right-wing political spectrum is actually much more complex than previously thought when it comes to public opinion

yougov.co.uk

Oh I wasn't suggesting that our current system would save them this time, rather that historically it had probably favoured the Tories. When you are 20% pts behind in the 45-64 year old category, you know you are toast.

Ignoring the polliticking about them, Yougov are interesting because their model is different from traditional polling, which means they can sometimes come up with outlier predictions that sometimes are right, like in 2017; but they are showing exactly the same type of kicking that the more traditional polling approaches are showing.

 

[Vic]

Why is the topic of immigration constantly comming back on this thread? its not like the Op started the thread on that issue ... last 15 pages has been mostly on that as if thats the singular issue that is making the Uk regress? Surely not right?

Because the Tories want it coming back to the thread.

It's a puzzle really, with a central contradiction as in this post:

They are not here to claim asylum in the main, they are by their own admission, economic migrants wanting a better life.

As I said earlier, a natural human want and need and something to always aspire to but just because you want a change of life, it doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it.

Controlled immigration is necessary.

So people coming here with permission for well-paid jobs are OK as economic migrants but not people coming unofficially as economic migrants to do low-paid jobs. And if they are refugees fleeing war or persecution they can stop fleeing as soon as they reach a safe country, and it's just bad luck for Italy, Greece and Spain that they are the first safe country that people reach. Our island nation needs its island mentality.

Meanwhile, from Flemish weavers in the Middle Ages to a host of entrepreneurs in the 19th century, Britain has done quite well out of immigrants.

Maybe Manchester should have put up barriers to all the people coming here from around the country, to keep wages low when it was becoming Cottonopolis.

 

[mackenzie]

Because the Tories want it coming back to the thread.

It's a puzzle really, with a central contradiction as in this post:



So people coming here with permission for well-paid jobs are OK as economic migrants but not people coming unofficially as economic migrants to do low-paid jobs. And if they are refugees fleeing war or persecution they can stop fleeing as soon as they reach a safe country, and it's just bad luck for Italy, Greece and Spain that they are the first safe country that people reach. Our island nation needs its island mentality.

Meanwhile, from Flemish weavers in the Middle Ages to a host of entrepreneurs in the 19th century, Britain has done quite well out of immigrants.

Maybe Manchester should have put up barriers to all the people coming here from around the country, to keep wages low when it was becoming Cottonopolis.

I find the argument about immigrants from over a hundred years ago to be a little disingenuous to be honest. There was no welfare state, no NHS, nothing.
Of course we need immigrants, we always have, but let's not pretend the world now is the same place it was then.

 

[Kinkybyname]

LMFAO at the claimed pretence of any difference in approach between the Tories and Tory lite

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

LMFAO at the claimed pretence of any difference in approach between the Tories and Tory lite

All the same, mate. Don’t let anybody tell you anything different.

Are we still voting Tory?

 

[Kinkybyname]

All the same, mate. Don’t let anybody tell you anything different.

Are we still voting Tory?

no

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

no

Is that because you vote using a raffle system, given they‘re all the same and it doesn’t matter?

 

[mexico1970]

no

You vote who you want mate, monster raving loony party?