What will work against us?

[Ric]

As soon as another team scores first we we struggle, and 4/5 have scored against us so hardly a time to claim invincibility.

Not sure if anyone's claiming we're invincible, but that's a valid point you raise. We're yet to go behind under Guardiola, so it'll be interesting to see how we react when that happens. Historically we've struggled when conceding first - I'm sure there's a ridiculous stat about us not winning games when we've trailed at half-time? This team feels different though, but time will tell.

For me, one of the biggest challenges facing Guardiola is Liverpool away (and to a slightly lesser extent Arsenal). We seem to always go to those grounds already beaten, and have lacked the mental fortitude to grind out results there in the past. It would be a huge statement if we could win those games.

 

[TCIB]

Not sure if anyone's claiming we're invincible, but that's a valid point you raise. We're yet to go behind under Guardiola, so it'll be interesting to see how we react when that happens. Historically we've struggled when conceding first - I'm sure there's a ridiculous stat about us not winning games when we've trailed at half-time? This team feels different though, but time will tell.

For me, one of the biggest challenges facing Guardiola is Liverpool away (and to a slightly lesser extent Arsenal). We seem to always go to those grounds already beaten, and have lacked the mental fortitude to grind out results there in the past. It would be a huge statement if we could win those games.

Not just win, but win with a plan! Ok that sounds snobby but if we do what we did to Utd then it will have real gravity imo.

 

[Maldeika]

At the start of the second half at Old Trafford, United pressed us high up the pitch and Bravo didn't have an outlet at times. Forced him to play it long and we struggled to retain possession for a while. Think that's the only way to beat us at the moment, but not sure any team has the fitness or intensity to maintain that for a full 90 minutes. Even if they do, you suspect Guardiola already has a plan to counteract it. Think Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool away will be our biggest tests.

The Dortmund of old would press hard the first 45 minutes and probably score during that time. With a lead they could sit back deep and look for the counter... - you do not have too keep that intensity for the full time when the opponent is rewarded with goals for the effort...

I think the biggest problems are teams that really have an organized press (but who does in the EPL) or teams that really park the bus and do not open up. Some of this busses are really hard to break apart.

You look great but I could be that the opponents until now underestimated your style or Pep's ability to get your team so far so early and maybe thought they can even play openly with you - or aren't really used to ball possession systems like this. Maybe some managers believed in that media crap that this systems will not work in the EPL because the EPL is so special.... ;) Until now the opponents left you more space to run into that I have seen the last seasons with the most opponents of Bayern. You maybe have to watch the development in the next months.

I know how it was in Germany. In the first van Gaal season - when the players were able to play his system from January/February on (we came from hoofing in the Klinsmann years) - it really functioned great and we were rolling the Bundesliga up from behind. Everybody was praising the football and we nearly won the treble - only lost to Mou's Inter in the CL final (who let us the ball and went on counter attacks...).

In his second season - and the first one with Heynckes - we really had problems against teams that were pressing us. It was not just Dortmund but e.g. Hannover, Mainz etc. too - and we really had big problems against this teams.

In Heynckes second year - and all years with Pep we did not have this problems (do not mention the CL semi finals and that jinxed cup semifinal when all Lahm and Alonso slipped at the penalty shootout and Götze and Schweinsteiger misfired...). There was the odd jinxed goal and bad luck - but we had the most possession and the better chances in every match. We did not loose any important match during that period either (only the just mentioned 4 matches)

 

[burnley blue mcfc]

15 players??? :)

 

[lostgalaxy]

I think the media is our worst enemy.

If you read carefully, all the sudden praises they are bestowing now are dishonest and toxic.

They want to delude us and fall prey to outselves. But people lie to themselves so I cant blame them.

To be honest, people hate us now even more than the rags. Because Pep and city oozes class and make them look petit.

 

[aguero93:20]

We're yet to go behind under Guardiola,

Long may it continue. Of course we'll have to keep to tradition and call for his baldy head the first time it happens.

 

[bobom]

I think the media is our worst enemy.

If you read carefully, all the sudden praises they are bestowing now are dishonest and toxic.

They want to delude us and fall prey to outselves. But people lie to themselves so I cant blame them.

To be honest, people hate us now even more than the rags. Because Pep and city oozes class and make them look petit.

I'm not convinced of this. The media need a story. Last year the narrative was: expensive superstars don't care, don't gel, don't play as a team - unlike Leicester, Tottenham etc. This season the story will be: genius manager creates one of the best sides the PL has ever seen: sit back and enjoy. And rightly so: our style of football is going to win over a lot of neutrals this season.

 

[Marvin]

It could not have gone any better, but if you look at the teams we have played, Pep was being entirely honest when he said Bournemouth were the best. West Ham, Sunderland and Stoke are falling apart. Bournemouth always let you play because they play football the right way. The European opposition were very very poor. Utd away was a tough physical battle.

We have played against weak teams in the Premier League and in Europe.

It will get harder.

If we play like this though, no one can beat us over 38 games.

 

[Bayblue]

I'm not convinced of this. The media need a story. Last year the narrative was: expensive superstars don't care, don't gel, don't play as a team - unlike Leicester, Tottenham etc. This season the story will be: genius manager creates one of the best sides the PL has ever seen: sit back and enjoy. And rightly so: our style of football is going to win over a lot of neutrals this season.

Well said.
I've never had much time for the view that we are hated by the media just because we are City.....and it breeds a victim, not winner, mentality

 

[Marvin]

What might work against us is all the praise we are getting.

That will also lift opponents. They will want to beat Pep's MCFC even more.

Every team we have played has been put to the sword easily. But look at the teams we have played: the weakest in the Premiership and Europe. If we go to Arsenal and win, or Chelsea then that is the ultimate test. And of course the Barcelona games.

What's most impressive for me is that we played Man Utd away, then a Champions League game, and then Bournemouth in 8 days, and played great in all 3. Tiredness is not affecting us yet. Can we keep this intensity up week after week through Winter and beyond? That is the ask

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Haven't read the thread so sorry if I'm repeating others points.

Howe got it right today and had done his research. They didn't come pressing our defenders because when you do you open up the middle of the park to get the ball to our playmakers. They also left our widest men alone and concentrated all their defensive bodies in the number 10/back of their midfield areas. These two tactics were designed to stop us doing what we have been doing, and pulling teams al over the park and opening the pitch up.

It's one of the reasons why today was so impressive, because we took them to pieces anyway,regularly from those very wide areas that Howe deemed to be our least dangerous.

Get used to that kind of performance against us: everyone will be doing that from now on.

I thought that too. He was tactically ok today. We were just too good.

Good to see you back posting!

 

[bluegonads]

Tiredness is not affecting us yet. Can we keep this intensity up week after week through Winter and beyond? That is the ask

yes, thats a question i have been asking myself.
i have noticed Pep leaves players on the pitch longer than you would normally expect.
Silva playing 90 minutes, Aguero (even after taking some nasty knocks, and at one point the other night looked like he needed bringing off as a precaution)
90 minutes for a lot of players that have run their socks off when there were adequate replacements on the bench and the game/s already won.
i was surprised yesterday at 4-0 up in the latter stages that Kompany didn't get at least a 20 minute run-out, give Ottamende, Kolorov, or even Fernandinho a little rest, get a few minutes game-time into vinny when the game is safe.
in what situation would you think Vinny might have been introduced yesterday?
look at the mileage our players are putting into these first 8 games, i'm sure sometimes it would be prudent to try to be a little more economical with the hard-running players, especially when we have able replacements on the bench who might need a run-out, and the game is looking pretty much won.
saving legs will pay dividends later in the season, running players into the ground will be detrimental....that much i'm sure.

still, enjoying the ride so far, long may it continue.

 

[Sir peace frog]

I think the media is our worst enemy.

If you read carefully, all the sudden praises they are bestowing now are dishonest and toxic.

They want to delude us and fall prey to outselves. But people lie to themselves so I cant blame them.

To be honest, people hate us now even more than the rags. Because Pep and city oozes class and make them look petit.

no they don't,not even close.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I reckon high pressing/swift counter attacking teams will cause us problems, got away with a few instances of poor defending and over committing better sides might punish us with. spurs AWAY will be a good test IMO.

Swift counters with at least two to three oppo players might cause the biggest problems. Yesterday the Bournemouth counter didn't have the manpower. The guy who gave Otters a bit of a chasing in the first half didn't get any support.

 

[gkmcfc]

Barca and Bayern managed quite well....he will have a plan...

yes, thats a question i have been asking myself.
i have noticed Pep leaves players on the pitch longer than you would normally expect.
Silva playing 90 minutes, Aguero (even after taking some nasty knocks, and at one point the other night looked like he needed bringing off as a precaution)
90 minutes for a lot of players that have run their socks off when there were adequate replacements on the bench and the game/s already won.
i was surprised yesterday at 4-0 up in the latter stages that Kompany didn't get at least a 20 minute run-out, give Ottamende, Kolorov, or even Fernandinho a little rest, get a few minutes game-time into vinny when the game is safe.
in what situation would you think Vinny might have been introduced yesterday?
look at the mileage our players are putting into these first 8 games, i'm sure sometimes it would be prudent to try to be a little more economical with the hard-running players, especially when we have able replacements on the bench who might need a run-out, and the game is looking pretty much won.
saving legs will pay dividends later in the season, running players into the ground will be detrimental....that much i'm sure.

still, enjoying the ride so far, long may it continue.

Don't think Vinnie coming on was ever on the cards. He never once came out to warm up.

 

[Citizen in Pakistan]

A 451 in defense with relatively high line n fast pressing changing into 4 3 3 in counter attack might work

 

[Bayblue]

This is a great question - -and one that I've been thinking about for a while.

I think as we get further on in the season teams will wise up to our play - it has to start by denying us any opportunity to play out from the back. In all this week's 3 games we have been able to control the play from the keeper out - with the exception being part of last Saturdays game where they did an ok job.

Having done this then teams will look to nick a goal. This will either be by getting a diagonal ball behind our CBs or via pumping high balls into the box.

Over a season you'd expect this approach to pay off a handful of times.

However - at the same time as teams are wising up to us will will no doubt keep improving. One area I think we will be practising time and again is the break from defence to attack. We've been good at this so far but even then I'm sure Pep will be practising this incessantly so we go from being good to brilliant. Once we do this then I honestly can't see too many teams even being able to nick a win as we will be too good over 90 minutes.

Of the domestic teams we face I'm intrigued to see how we do against Liverpool (pressing), Leicester (ability on break) and Chelsea (miserable bastards).

In reality our progress is already such that the two Madrid teams, Bayern and Barca have now become the benchmark against which we should judge ourselves.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Well pushing 6 players up to press our defence seems to have the best chance of working. When we get the ball up field to a City player they are in two minds as to whether they should keep possession or go for the killer pass and generally lose possession as a result. Every team we have played against has eventually gone for this tactic in the second half of games and it has generally been successful in stemming the flow. It will be interesting to see what happens when a team trys this from the off. Liverpool will certainly try this.

 

[Cityfan]

I haven't seen a lot of the other premier league teams this season but based on last season both Klopp's Liverpool and Spurs operate an effective high press and have been doing it for a while so are well practiced. Liverpool have the added advantage of being able to keep players rested midweek because of no European football and will not have to rotate much so the key players will be used to playing with each other and fresh. I think we have more quality but they may have the advantage of more practice with the team.
Although it is fashionable to blame all last seasons woes on the manager a major contributor was injuries, a bad run could work against us again, we look a little light in back up in Central midfield where Yaya lacks intensity and neither Delph nor Fernando are best at taking the ball in a tight situation which could easily be exploited by the teams that press well.

 

[Cityfan]

i was surprised yesterday at 4-0 up in the latter stages that Kompany didn't get at least a 20 minute run-out, give Ottamende, Kolorov, or even Fernandinho a little rest, get a few minutes game-time into vinny when the game is safe.

Stones replaced Ottamendi and De Bruyne and Gundogan were both replaced. I think Pep was giving some of our high intensity players a rest, particularly Gundogan who is just back from injury and De Bruyne who was flagging at the end last week.