When did it all start to go wrong?

[Marvin]

It hasn't really "all" gone wrong though has it ? Twice champions, once runners up, FA Cup and League Cup winners and FA Cup finalists in the last 4 years.

If we're talking about this season since the turn of the year, in my view, what we're seeing is the inevitable result of FFP. After we won the league for the first time we were hamstrung in who we could sign without having had time to establish an infrastructure to identify young and cheaper talent. We were held to ransom over transfer fees as everyone knew we a) had to buy and quick, b) had to buy English and c) appeared to have pots of money. That's how we ended up with Rodwell and Sinclair, not through any ill-will towards Mancini.

Since then, it has been a matter of trying to balance the squad whilst being out of the market for the top players but held to ransom for the middling players. Fernando and Mangala may come good but 5 or 6 teams seriously challenging for the top 4 is unusual and there is no time for them to acclimatize.

At the same time, the relentless negative publicity and UEFA's implication that we have, somehow, cheated has permeated through to the club. Imagine being a Spanish player coming to England and getting zero credit for winning the league, simply an unprecedented financial penalty and restrictions on transfer fees, wages, sponsorship deals. And don't tell me that this doesn't affect the players, Vinnie commented on FFP only this week. They know it has been put in place to stop us. It won't, but, in my view it will have to be a longer term project and that will be a lot healthier than doing what we had to do.

We may fall out of the Champions League this season but that does not have the finality some people like to torment themselves with.

Very well said, WA.

Well said but FFP does not explain why we can be joint top around New Years Day and then free-fall.

The planets have aligned:

a) Coach Pellegrini being exposed. Everywhere you look there is total disarray. Set pieces. City's defensive shape and work off the ball. Every aspect of the defensive organisation of the team has gone
b)Senior players who organise the team have their head in the clouds. Kompany thinks he's Lucio and Toure we don't know what he thinks
c) Confidence gone - that's key to collapse in form but it stems from the absence of management
d) The link between players and the club. The so called ITKs and club leaks making it clear that certain players are a problem and have no future at the club. Brought to a head by the Balkan Group and the January transfer window
e) A management whose future is tied up with their appointment, and an absent Chairman.

Khaldoon needs to appoint a new CEO. Fair enough he's a clever man with lots of responsibilities which is exactly why you need a day to day CEO

 

[Gelsons Dad]

Oh great. More Mancini revisionist history. He acts like a dick to the players, owners and executives yet he's the reincarnation of Mercer, Shankly & Busby in one body. I'm sorry but it doesn't wash. It was even de niro, revisionist-in-chief, who told me the final straw came when even Silva & Zabaleta went to complain about him and threatened to leave. In some ways I'm sorry that he didn't get another season then some of you would have been under no illusions.

I think I'll start a thread in The Cellar about how Hitler wasn't such a bad guy after all and the Jews only had themselves to blame.

Anyway, for me it was the second half in Moscow. We were doing OK , not great but OK, up till then but it all fell apart after that.

And there in lies the problem. Can you just imagine Stam, Beckham, Keane & whoever else Ferguson fell out with bypassing him to 'go upstairs' and complain?

Whether Hughes, Mancini or Pellegrini, a manager needs the mandate to manage otherwise all hell will break out as it did with Mancini. Mancini's sacking was a power play by design from Soriano & Txiki, that much was obvious.

Knowing that they could go above the manager's head and receive a sympathetic ear is what made the players unmanageable and ultimately undermined the so called manager.

If I was the person above Mancini & one of his staff came to me to complain, I'd have politely told him to go back to his manager and resolve his issue thus reinforcing the managers mandate to manage effectively.

I mentioned the very same thing in a post yesterday as I was someone who had to sort out a workplace rabble by reinforcing to troublesome staff they had no higher autbority than their managers. 7-8 sackings later, peace reigned, harmony and productivity was restored and the weak minded underlings who lemming-like followed their troublesome barrack room laywer colleagues were soon back on track. Further down the line many of our former lemmings became management themselves and continued to instil our company's ethos to all new employees.

IIRC, Sir Alex Ferguson was doing something similar in a neighbouring town to Manchester, and as they say the rest is history. You undermine your management at your peril......

This is exactly the same type of politics that goes on in any organisation and any manager knows the right and wrong way to deal with this. A Hierarchy depends on it's structure being clear and consistent. This is also why some prefer yes men and others prefer to let their managers manage.

 

[Pubteam Lomas]

As many have said some awful transfers over the last few years have left us in the mire. The squad is nowhere near good enough.
The treatment of Nastasic and Jovetic has caused issues with the Balkan players and Yaya being given carte blanche to do what he wants when he wants has undermined the management. That he fulfilled a dream winning the ACON meant he has lost some of the hunger and desire that made him such a top player.
Weak leadership has been the main problem, whether that is just Pellegrini or if that includes Soriano and Txixi it's up to individuals to make their own minds up.
We tossed off the FA Cup with poor preparation and since then our form has been very poor, culminating in a defeat to Palace and a heavy loss to our neighbours, whose team contained Smalling, Jones, Valencia, Carrick, Young and bogbrush.
However I do believe Frank Lampard has been criminally under used in a period when we needed a calm hand.

In the club's defence I always said this season was not going to give a true reflection of teams abilities.
The world cup finishing so late meant a number of squads were under prepared at the start and players have suffered from fatigue as the season as wore on.
Zaba and Kompany (two of our on field leaders) immediately spring to mind, whilst Fernandinho seems to have been scarred after Brazil's 7-1 semi-final defeat.
Whether the manager will be given more time is any-ones guess. However he's right about one thing we need a marquee signing to give the squad a lift and we need the players to find that desire to succeed.
All this is easier said than done!

 

[MerlinsBeard]

To be bring us back onto topic, Pellegrini was always a risk like any change can be. His style of play and attack-minded approach e.g. 5-0 up with 10 mins to go and bringing on an extra striker to look for a 6th like you would expect to see Barca & Real to do. But with this brought a less solid base and if it wasn't working going forward then there is always the risk that we would be exposed at the back. Last year was an improvement on what was there before and the prospects were promising moving forward.

Negredo was a huge success and Jovetic looked the real deal (when fit) but with our financial restrictions and injuries we had to gamble in the summer, selling Negredo and going with just 3 strikers and it has not worked out. It has put more pressure on our midfield to perform, Frank Lampard plugged this hole to good effect but we always knew this was not the long term answer.

The combination of these plus Pellegrini's reluctance to play Mangala are the factors that have lead to our demise this season. Players will always suffer a slump in form, so for Kompany, Toure and Zabaleta I am not hugely concerned by this. These players are proven assets and I hope to see them next season but maybe without so much exposure that the issues I have referred to above have left them open to. I feel Fernando will be good for the squad much like Javi Garcia was (eventually), Mangala will prove himself worthy with a run in the team (see Lescott & Demichelis) and Bony will score goals, of that I have no doubt.

In my opinion the club have under-achieved since the takeover, certainly the core group of players that have delivered some success struggle with the pressures of the Champions League. It is clear that we have money to spend in the summer and can add some top quality first team players but I think that's true of all of the English teams in the top 4. If we were to add just 1 superstar (Bale, Reus, Ronaldo, Pogba) to this squad we would be capable of winning everything.

In truth, the powers that be should have expected this (4th place) as a possible outcome this season. My concern is that the 2 years of Pellegrini's reign is viewed as 1 step forward and 2 steps back. I think one way the club could end the season in a positive manner would be to play some of our youngsters in the first team. I have seen this suggestion many times on here over the years but I'm getting tired of hearing it from the management team as the club's party line without seeing it come to fruition. I think it's a real opportunity now with little risk, playing a fullback and a couple of substitution appearances for others in the 4 home games we have left. It's a good way of ending a poor season even if they don't seem capable. There are players you could arguably leave out for the last few games depending on our transfer plans (Lampard, Milner, Nasri?).

So without losing our heads, we have a great squad, some world-class talent (Aguero, Hart, Kompany), a manager who makes little fuss but has won things for us before and this summer is a big one for adding to all of that.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

At the start of the season, I made a comment, just before the Newcastle game, that if City won the League, it would prove that pre season was a complete joke, our attitude summed up succinctly by Pellegrini's awful selection for the Community Shield.

Fast forward to all the negativity after the victory over the rags at the ETIHAD. Something was wrong, but as long as we were winning, every dissenter was naturally slaughtered.

Unfortunately, the dissenters could spot the complacency infesting the club.

The fans were just as bad. Too much blind faith that everything would sort itself out. Too much belief in the myth that City always fight till the end. Too much ridicule for anybody who dared to suggest that we were a spent force.

However, this season isn't done and dusted. God knows where we're going to finish, but the players and fans need to show some spirit.

 

[Marvin]

As many have said some awful transfers over the last few years have left us in the mire. The squad is nowhere near good enough.
The treatment of Nastasic and Jovetic has caused issues with the Balkan players and Yaya being given carte blanche to do what he wants when he wants has undermined the management. That he fulfilled a dream winning the ACON meant he has lost some of the hunger and desire that made him such a top player.
Weak leadership has been the main problem, whether that is just Pellegrini or if that includes Soriano and Txixi it's up to individuals to make their own minds up.
We tossed off the FA Cup with poor preparation and since then our form has been very poor, culminating in a defeat to Palace and a heavy loss to our neighbours, whose team contained Smalling, Jones, Valencia, Carrick, Young and bogbrush.
However I do believe Frank Lampard has been criminally under used in a period when we needed a calm hand.

In the club's defence I always said this season was not going to give a true reflection of teams abilities.
The world cup finishing so late meant a number of squads were under prepared at the start and players have suffered from fatigue as the season as wore on.
Zaba and Kompany (two of our on field leaders) immediately spring to mind, whilst Fernandinho seems to have been scarred after Brazil's 7-1 semi-final defeat.
Whether the manager will be given more time is any-ones guess. However he's right about one thing we need a marquee signing to give the squad a lift and we need the players to find that desire to succeed.
All this is easier said than done!

No progress can be made until we have a sound coach who can restore playing morale and organisation.

It I easily done. The absent Chairman can turn his attention to our football club. Make a decision, appoint Vieira and we'll be on the up again. he may or may not have what it takes, but short term he'll have players who believe in (presumably his reputation around the club is good. If it's not then that kills that option).

The truth is 75% of us are guessing 24.99% are loving it, and maybe 0.01% know what's going on. I'm in the 75%, and just stabbing in the dark, but everything I'm seeing tells me that the coach is utterly inept and has lost the trust of the dressing room. When that happens there is no way back, and I'm very disappointed that our so called executives do not see that

I don't really trust my own views on this because they have been diametrically opposed over many months, but hat's what happens when you sit in the stands. You sit and 2nd guess everything.

Sunday 19th April is a huge game for MCFC

 

[Bobby Heaton Moor]

I knew we'd struggle with complacency all season after losing at home to Stoke. That whole day just didn't feel right. The ground was flat and the players were just not at it at all

 

[blue b4 the moon]

I'm still fuming that the Spanish duo not only got rid of Bobby as he ruffled their comfy existence (much as I like Cooky I doubt he was upto the job and had took us as far as he could by the time he had to fall on his sword) but to their own advantage decided to bring it to a head just before a Cup Final that we'd all paid out for and probably cost us the game.

There have been other turning points but without doubt if we'd heeded the crap signings made that season and bought properly after a poor players in defense of the title we'd have bee fine, not gone to Abu before the Middlesbro' game etc.

Either Kalhoon puts too much trust in the Spanish pair or eyes are off the ball with NYC and Melbourne but it's a shitty mess at the moment.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I'd just like to make it clear, as I said to another poster in a pm, that Mancini had us much better organised than Pellegrini has ever achieved. As a highly paid professional there is no excuse for the seeming lack of organisation and preparation that our team currently exhibits. So I've no problem with Mancini from a pure footballing viewpoint.

I said my view was that it all started to unravel during the second half in Moscow this season and that hasn't changed. But where it all started to go wrong as a club was in the immediate aftermath of the 2012 title win. It's been mentioned on here before but Mancini handed his notice in in the days following that, largely over his refusal to work under a DoF. We spent 2 months trying to persuade him to stay and had a poor summer in the transfer market as a result. We also went into the new season with two key people, one of who wouldn't work with the other, which clearly impacted us and led to the farce of the FA Cup final. Pellegrini was a stop-gap who had any initial impact but eventually has undone the organisation of the team under Mancini. What we need to start getting back on track is a clear out of those senior players who won't give 100% every game, together with a youngish manager who can man-manage effectively and can build a new, younger squad that can perform as a team. I'd take a trophy-less season or two if that set us up for the longer term.

 

[supercity88]

I think the issues are easily addressed with big decisions in the transfer market this summer. For me the club have shown a ruthlessness with the wrong people. They’ve had the bollocks to sack Hughes and Mancini in quite appalling ways actually – with both clearly knowing they were out without being formally told. Considering Mancini won us our first trophies in 35 years and won the big two domestic competitions – to sack him in the manner they did wasn’t acceptable. Particularly as we had the FA Cup final to play…

The men at the top have also taken the decision to be tough in the transfer market and not give in to agent demands. Rather than splash the cash and get the top players we’ve seen a lot of Plan A targets go elsewhere and we’ve instead signed similar players about two levels at least below them.

We’ve also been pathetic in addressing our own squad. The players have been put on a pedestal and you see it on here when Pellegrini’s tactics are criticised week in week out but the players can’t do anything wrong. Last summer one of our best performers threw his dummy out over a birthday cake… we should have sold him then and there. This season has been all about the ACON – he got his prize and he’s ready to retire. He’s won all he wanted to. I don’t think in this day and age a culture that Van Turtle or Bacon implement will do long term good. Young and Fellaini will not win the rags the league and will players like Di Maria want to perform when they’ve been hung out to dry for so long…

Even so – you can’t allow the players to get away with being lazy. Did everyone see Yaya burst past Palace at Selhurst last season, or run through the entire Villa team. That was about 12months ago. He’s not had an injury since but we’re to believe he’s just lost his legs. I’ve found that by trying to run you usually can – it’s time the club were ruthless with players. We’ve lost our captain to poor form, hopefully he gets it back. Our vice captain doesn’t give a toss. Zabaleta has been given little competition and the players we’ve signed have rarely been played. Confidence leads to performances. How can Mangala build confidence when thrown on at 2-1 down in an away derby… how can Fernando settle when he’s played next to Yaya and has to do all the work himself? There have been mistakes by Pellegrini and the rotation has been far too frequent.

This summer the club must be ruthless with the players simply not good enough to wear the shirt, or unwilling to fight for it. They must promote youth and buy quality. Kolarov, Boyata, Sagna, Yaya, Dzeko, Jovetic, Navas must all leave. Lampard will be gone and Milner looks likely to follow. We’ve got talents like Denayer and Lopes doing well on loan – give them a chance. We’ve trusted experienced players and been let down.