Which Bands Got Worse After Replacing An Original Member

Bobby the blue said:
New order. Once hook had left that was it. As much as he is coming across as a bit of pineapple these days the bloke was a great bass guitarist and had that stage presence.
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staffsblue said:
To be fair, Tom Chapman who replaced Hooky is a decent enough bassist. Not really sure of his song writing abilities as he's only featured on one album released 12 years ago.
His work on the Shadowparty and Sea Fever albums seems decent though, and he comes across as very Manc for a French bloke!
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
I am one of those oddballs who love them so much I actually think WFTSC and MC are very good records. But there’s no getting around that Hooky’s bass was a huge differentiator in their sound and a major part of my attraction to their music.
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This is an interesting one with New Order. They actually got worse after Gillian left and Phil Cunningham joined. Hooky was still in the band at this point and New Order produced their two poorest albums in Get Ready and WFTSC. For all this shit Republic got, it is a far better album than the 2 subsequent guitar driven albums.

New Order actually improved after Hooky left and Gillian came back. Not to the levels of their heyday. But Music Complete is a great electro pop album and far more enjoyable than the 2 previous albums.

You could even argue that New Order started going down hill when Barney ran off with Johnny Marr.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
I thought Genesis was better without Gabriel save for Lamb, and I really liked PG’s first four solo records and even So. That said, Genesis became a pop band vs a “prog” band and I prefer pop to prog, but always thought they were hit or miss on both accounts. Brits often wildly overrate them IMO.

Never even thought of PF as a band without Waters.
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I tend to like your posts Foggie, but your thoughts on Genesis are so appalling I’m thinking of becoming a MAGA supporter just out of spite.
 
REM: When drummer Bill Berry left IMHO the group's peak had passed. They had a variety of sidemen/session men afterwards. I much preferred the earlier "Best of REM" - swamp rock and the Murmur album rather than the later attempts of electronic/garage sounds.
 
Bill Walker said:
Peter was an extremely gifted musician and like Syd Barrett he was bordering on being a kind of genius. Band leader, singer, lead guitarist and band songwriter. He created Fleetwood Mac.

He wrote several top 10 hits which is pretty unheard of from a Blues musician who is also a virtuoso on guitar.
Hits including Black Magic Woman, Albatross, Man Of The World, Oh Well and the fabulous Green Manalishi. A song about his own demons.
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You’re right. I have been a fan of Green since the sixties when I saw him in one of his spells with the Bluesbreakers. I went to see him many times and his playing was sublime. He advocated “less is more” and you could hear your own harmonies in his silences. ‘ I Need Your Love So Bad’ contains some truly great playing. (You have to avoid cut down versions on line). What a pity LSD robbed us of so many years of wonderful music. Something odd about Fleetwood Mac version 1: Peter fell victim to LSD; Spencer joined a Christian cult in the middle of a US tour; Danny Kirwen, whom Peter recruited early on, fell victim to alcoholism; only the rhythm section survived. Something in the water?
PS. Black Magic Woman is part two of his complaint about his gf after part one in Long Grey Mare.
 
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bluetonium said:
I'd agree with that, although it's hard to separate the influence of a new band member coming in, with the evolution (?) of Metallica's writing. Certainly to me nothing matches up to any of the first five albums.

Although I did quite enjoy garage inc and the s&m sessions, the studio efforts haven't been anywhere near, even the sound quality seems to have regressed since probably load and reload.

But there again, those songs and albums were really from my era, when I first discovered music in depth, so maybe we just never have music imprint on us again like it does at that time in our development.

Would you say the same for Megadeth? I've really grown to appreciate the early stuff with Chris Pollard and Gar Samuelson, given the unique background they had in jazz and moving into speed metal, and Marty Friedman brought something new to the sound, but I can't say I rate much of their newer stuff on the same level despite acknowledging the newer guitarists are technically excellent. But again, peace sell, countdown to extinction, peace sells, those were the albums I listened to as I discovered my own tastes and personality.

I think that counts for something in each of us and probably influences us greatly, but there again I don't think there's been anything like another One, Orion, Symphony of Destruction or Holy Wars from either band. Lots of younger, newer fans seem to gravitate to the 'classics' too, so maybe those times just always were better.
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I think it was Some Kind of Monster where it was apparent Lars and James were the dominant pair and Kirk effectively deferred to both of them. Now I see Trujillo, during live concerts, being allowed to have a 5-10 min spell where he's doing something completely different and almost pointless. It just looks a bit shite. Sometimes he'll do it with Kirk and it comes off as all a bit unnecessary.

I know Cliff would have his moment of incredible bass playing by himself, but it seemed more in keeping with what the band were doing. But, as you say, it must have been difficult for him joining such a well established band with an already enormous catalogue of music. I'm sure the million dollar signing on cheque went some way to helping :)

Maybe Robert's 5-10 minutes allows the other three a bit of a rest, as their concerts are incredibly long.

As for their albums, I largely gave up after St. Anger. Everything previous to that is exceptional.

Megadeth. Never been a huge fan but can appreciate their work. Although I do like the song Symphony of Destruction. The riff is tremendous.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Uh, Van Halen, obviously.

Also I must say I never really noticed a difference in quality during any stage of Warrant.
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Cheers - fun thread started with many different opinions...

Halen with Hagar was awesome. But I liked DLR as well.

Warrant sans Jani Lane is night and day. Lani was not only musically gifted - he was an extremely talented writer. Take for example Heaven's opening stanza...

"
Got a picture of your house
And you're standing by the door
It's black and white and faded
And it's looking pretty worn
See the factory that I worked
Silhouetted in the back
The memories are gray, but man, they're really coming back"

There's no fucking way in hell that I could write such concise, evocative prose. Jani was a genius.

If you think that the above was a one-off exception - well, google the lyrics for any popular Warrant song...
===
And too, Jani's tunes were beyond my ability - although I can envision myself reworking a tune over and over to come up with something interesting.
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Many of my friends seem to ignore lyrics - going only by melody when judging a song. In this vein, maybe sans Jani Warrant was the same.

But for me, the lyrics really matter. If a band has a catchy tune, but the lyrics are inane, I simply cannot ever enjoy the tune, nor the band, with some exceptions... Led Zeppelin for example.
 
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Fiftyyearsandcounting said:
I wouldn't know where to start with Rainbow!
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Quite simply with Dio they were the best hard rock band in the World.

With Graham Bonnet they became a pop band although he had incredible vocals and the band was still superb.

With Joe Lyn Turner, they should have just had a 3 year residency in Las Vegas.

With Doogie White they actually were bloody good, not Dio standard but still good.

With Ronnie Romero they had a singer nearly as good as Dio, but a return to hard rock was an itch Ritchie Blackmore had to scratch, which was just a pity it didn't last longer.

So for me

Dio
Romero
White
Bonnet




Turner
 
BimboBob said:
Warrant once had a song that got to number 35 in the UK charts. Massive success indeed.

Hinder had even less success over here. An album that got to number 130 odd in the charts. Ooooh...
Just had a quick listen to 'Get Stoned'. Hard rock? Sounds like Nickleback.

Got any other examples that the majority of this forum might know and actually give two shits about?
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My take on this thread is as an American, 60+ years old.

So of course my take is from this perspective.

I don't know why you've decided to shit all over my post - but whatever.

Warrant had numerous top, top songs - Heaven, Uncle Tom's Cabin, Down Boys and so on. Perhaps these songs didn't reach the UK audience - but they're all very good and were extremely popular in their time and numerous Bluemoon members probably like or would of liked these songs so long as they enjoy the genra.

Hinder too was fucking awesome with Austin John Winkler. The lyrics and the tunes were awesome - once again - if you enjoy the genre. Sans Winkler - Hinder kinda sucks.

So yeah - spot on if you don't care about the examples I've mentioned, from the point of view of a 60+ year old American. But rather than shit on this post, why not post examples which you care about?

Maybe you'll post something about a band that I've never heard about - and will - because of your post listen to.
 
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The Byrds
Parted ways with David Crosby. And then went irrelevant.

Meanwhile Crosby helped star Crosby Stills and Nash (CSN) - one of the best bands ever formed.
 
Nightmare Walking said:
This is an interesting one with New Order. They actually got worse after Gillian left and Phil Cunningham joined. Hooky was still in the band at this point and New Order produced their two poorest albums in Get Ready and WFTSC. For all this shit Republic got, it is a far better album than the 2 subsequent guitar driven albums.

New Order actually improved after Hooky left and Gillian came back. Not to the levels of their heyday. But Music Complete is a great electro pop album and far more enjoyable than the 2 previous albums.

You could even argue that New Order started going down hill when Barney ran off with Johnny Marr.
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I don’t think Republic is far better than Get Ready. It’s better but not far. Get Ready is hands down their most underrated record.
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned... but AC/DC after Bon Scott's death weren't nearly as good, IMO.

Back In Black was awesome - and is one of my favorite albums of theirs. But post BiB, AC/DC really wasn't good, IMO.

As opposed to all albums with Bon Scott - every one, awesome.
 
Mr Ed (The Stables) said:
Quite simply with Dio they were the best hard rock band in the World.

With Graham Bonnet they became a pop band although he had incredible vocals and the band was still superb.

With Joe Lyn Turner, they should have just had a 3 year residency in Las Vegas.

With Doogie White they actually were bloody good, not Dio standard but still good.

With Ronnie Romero they had a singer nearly as good as Dio, but a return to hard rock was an itch Ritchie Blackmore had to scratch, which was just a pity it didn't last longer.

So for me

Dio
Romero
White
Bonnet




Turner
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Down to Earth is a great rock album, shouldn't be judged on Since you've been gone,and All night long.The rest of the album is brilliant rock.
 
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