Why The Hell Would Anyone Want Mancini Sacked ?

[OB1]

I don't know if you really expect an answer to that last question, but here's one:
Turns draws into wins.
Anyway it's disingenuous not to include all the other competitive games we've played like the Champs lge & CC

I wasn't being disingenuous. It was DD said we had better improve quickly starting on Sunday. I was merely pointing out the fact how many games in the league since we lost.

When considering how we are performing we should consider all competitions, and not just the ones that support our arguments be that for or against Mancini.

Do you really believe he deserves to be sacked when you consider his overall record at this club?

Ok mate, fair reply. I'm not gonna speak for other posters.
To answer your question, as it stands today, I don't think he "deserves to be sacked". He has a brilliant record overall, and is a very good manager.
However, that's only true for me 99% of the time, there's always an exception - and that's only if there was an improvement available, and even then it would need weighing up carefully, with info I certainly don't have - about man management skills, tactical flexibility & awareness, ability to scout & transfer deal well (being on the outside means not knowing which signings are primarily down to him, for example).
So, if none of the managers who I consider probably, on balance, would be better for the club than Mancini were available, then I would say 100% keep.
The other thing is about language "deserve to be sacked" is quite a loaded way of putting it, tbh.
Top level footy management is cut throat, all involved know and are resigned to it. With the sums involved its nobody's livelihood at stake here - egos is all it is really in terms of the individuals. So, even if we have somebody really good at their job, if the world no 1 at that job says they want to come, then I would expect Mancini to be "relieved of his duties" "parting of the ways" etc even though he might not "deserve" it.

There are 2 different issues here.
1) Whether people think Mourinho and or Guardiola are better coaches than Mancini or not
2) If you do think they are better - and available - is it fair to replace Mancini with one of them.

I think probably yes to both, because I believe it will improve us further - even though I don't think Mancini "deserves" sacking.

Good response, IMO.<br /><br />-- Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:00 pm --<br /><br />

I think some people on here are a bit soft.

It's not about "sacking" Mancini, it's about whether we can improve our club by hiring a better manager.

And remember, this is not like he's on £25k a year and on one month's notice. If we decide to say, thanks Roberto but time for a change, he will walk away with *millions* as a thank you and farewell. And he can get a job at virtually any club in the world.

So let's have a bit less of this "does he deserve to be sacked?" nonsense, and a bit more "we have a business to run here, who is the very best manager we can get to take us to the next level". If that person is not Mancini, then thanks, farewell and good luck. No hard feelings.

Harsh but fair.

 

[chesterbells]

You can't just fire someone because there's someone else who you think might be coming on to the job market who has a better CV.

That seems to be the excuse for the critics.

A manager should be judged against the performance plan - and in our case the major feature will be the League. And Mancini is in credit because it was achieved 2 seasons ahead of schedule.

It's disappointing that even with 2 trophies and a strong start to the 3rd campaign, we still are going on match by match. There are a handful of people responsible for that, and from that a lot of column inches get written ,and the whole thing feeds on itself.

You can trace back a number of back page headlines to this message board.

Genuine question pal, do you know that is really the case??
FWIW, although I've both praised & criticised certain players & their performances on here, I'm always 100% behind them inside the stadium. Are these guys seriously generating headline content based on a few of us 'know-all's on here? Is that how they get the stories for other clubs too, from fan forums??

 

[simon23]

You can't just fire someone because there's someone else who you think might be coming on to the job market who has a better CV.

That seems to be the excuse for the critics.

A manager should be judged against the performance plan - and in our case the major feature will be the League. And Mancini is in credit because it was achieved 2 seasons ahead of schedule.

It's disappointing that even with 2 trophies and a strong start to the 3rd campaign, we still are going on match by match. There are a handful of people responsible for that, and from that a lot of column inches get written ,and the whole thing feeds on itself.

You can trace back a number of back page headlines to this message board.

Genuine question pal, do you know that is really the case??
FWIW, although I've both praised & criticised certain players & their performances on here, I'm always 100% behind them inside the stadium. Are these guys seriously generating headline content based on a few of us 'know-all's on here? Is that how they get the stories for other clubs too, from fan forums??

thats exactly how they do it....fans forums are even subtley being quoted in sections of the media

 

[B\connellblue]

Theoretically you could go through the whole season unbeaten. Ie draw every game and still get relegated. Wouldn't me much to crow about really. The really worrying thing about bobbys 3 years at city is his failure to bring anyone through from the youth system. When was the last time anyone made the breakthrough? If we hadn't anyone as good as or better than Garcia then we'll continue to pay inflated prices for second raters ala rodwell and sinclair. This part of the club needs to improve and quickly!

 

[mad zab]

I don't know if you really expect an answer to that last question, but here's one:
Turns draws into wins.
Anyway it's disingenuous not to include all the other competitive games we've played like the Champs lge & CC

I wasn't being disingenuous. It was DD said we had better improve quickly starting on Sunday. I was merely pointing out the fact how many games in the league since we lost.

When considering how we are performing we should consider all competitions, and not just the ones that support our arguments be that for or against Mancini.

Do you really believe he deserves to be sacked when you consider his overall record at this club?

Ok mate, fair reply. I'm not gonna speak for other posters.
To answer your question, as it stands today, I don't think he "deserves to be sacked". He has a brilliant record overall, and is a very good manager.
However, that's only true for me 99% of the time, there's always an exception - and that's only if there was an improvement available, and even then it would need weighing up carefully, with info I certainly don't have - about man management skills, tactical flexibility & awareness, ability to scout & transfer deal well (being on the outside means not knowing which signings are primarily down to him, for example).
So, if none of the managers who I consider probably, on balance, would be better for the club than Mancini were available, then I would say 100% keep.
The other thing is about language "deserve to be sacked" is quite a loaded way of putting it, tbh.
Top level footy management is cut throat, all involved know and are resigned to it. With the sums involved its nobody's livelihood at stake here - egos is all it is really in terms of the individuals. So, even if we have somebody really good at their job, if the world no 1 at that job says they want to come, then I would expect Mancini to be "relieved of his duties" "parting of the ways" etc even though he might not "deserve" it.

There are 2 different issues here.
1) Whether people think Mourinho and or Guardiola are better coaches than Mancini or not
2) If you do think they are better - and available - is it fair to replace Mancini with one of them.

I think probably yes to both, because I believe it will improve us further - even though I don't think Mancini "deserves" sacking.

Your points are fair and well argued.

However, what I would say is that it's my belief that a manager should only be replaced if he fails to meet his targets, rather than because there may be a better manager available.

 

[Damocles]

I absolutely don't think Mourinho is a better coach than Mancini, but he's almost certainly a better manager. Mancini is probably in the best two or three coaches in the world and it's why every player who plays under him seemingly gets better at football.

 

[paulchapo]

This is a really interesting thread with some good arguments from both sides.

I like and admire Mancini,as a man and a manager.He is focused and determined,a proven winner and passionate......but.....there are a few cracks appearing.If we don't at least retain the title this season i think he WILL be gone.

We have the strongest premier league squad.We have world class players in Hart,Toure,Silva,Tevez and Aguero.This season,unbeaten in the league or not,they have underperformed and appear to be going slightly backwards,rather than forwards and improving further.Could another coach come in and take this squad to the next level?Maybe with just some fine tinkering and motivation sweep all before them?

That is the question on even the most avid Mancini fan's mind and if it is in our minds,you can bet your last pound it will be in our owners mind too.

 

[Andy Dale]

I don't want to see Roberto sacked. He is a top notch manager.
However , if we fail to win anything and our owner sees fit then so be it.
Personally , I think our owner brought him in as a long term manager and not a Steve Coppell.
If he is shown the door then I can see Guardiola rolling up at our place and Roberto taking the reins at Chelsea.
£10 double will be placed on Sunday , dependent on the derby result.

 

[Nerazzurri33]

Hi Inter fan here.

I am not against City, also I dont support City, but there are strong feeling in Europe that City was one of teams being favourite to win the CL after bayern, Barca, Real and maybe Chelsea after Abramovich spent money again. (And has bigger chance than Arsenal or United as league position has a say in it generally.) City dissapointed in CL it is clear. (Dortmund is a big surprise after last year, but they are really really good.)

And thats why I signed up here I try to give you what was the problem with Mancini at Inter.


His CL record will be his end.

His Inter CL record: always went trough from group stages with us but it was expected given Inter's strenghts and the oppenets in groups (like Inter-Fenerbahce-PSV-CSKA Moscow group or Inter-Rangers-Porto-Bratislava).

From year to year in knockout rounds:

2005: 1/4 finals, Ancelotti' Milan, our city rival, pretty big loss, 0-2 loss first leg, then 0-3 second leg, with 5-0 aggregated result over two matches Milan went trough, Milan went to the finals later and there they lost to Benítez's Pool (hahahahahahaha, from 3-0 up).

2006: 1/4 finals, Pellegrini's Villarreal they reached semfinals wit win over Inter, only lost to Arsenal
(It was dissapointing as there were hopes to make it right after last years horrible loss vs. Milan, and Villarreal really did not have stars…)

2007: 1/8 finals, Valencia They then instantly lost to Chelsea next round, another dissapointing CL season, Valencia was alright with Silva and Villa upfron that time, but Inter was leading in the league we had like 24-3-0 record and Roma had 15 points less with 10 matches before the end we were winning the league basically in March. And the hopes were very high in CL and he failed to beat Valencia, news from his firing started after this season, evenif he won the league with 22 points lead in may 2007, with Lazio on third place was about 30+ points worse.

2008: 1/8 finals, Benítez's Liverpool ,they reached semifinals

Do I have to continue? Liverpool were good in England this year, they had some good players Gerrard, Xabi A, Maschearano, Torres, but we had Figo, Ibra, Vieira, Maicon, Cambiasso etc. and Mancini lost both legs (0-1 and 0-2) of this fight.
So basically he never lost to a team that won the CL later which could have been a little bit excuse for us, "look they won the whole thing,how could we beat them?"

The bad thing is naybe Milan had a better squad in 2005 than Inter but Villarreal, Valencia and Liverpool did not have better squad (or more expensive squads) than Inter in those years.

Mancini went into these knockout matches like Inter with 60-65% favourite all the time except vs. Milan in 2005. (But still Milan-Inter 2-0 then Inter -Milan 0-3 in second leg area humiliating results between city rivals in CL. Imagine if you go trough this year and meet United later on, and them winning 2-0 at home then 3-0 in your stadium, pfff.)

Even if our team was a little bit favourite he came short against Pellegrini, Benítez and Quqie Flores's Valencia. Pretty much being found out tactically. He knew everything about Serie A, he could win that without problem. (Also truth is that Juventus going Serie B helped a lot as it was impossible for to win the league unitl they were in Serie A as it turned out it was maybe because of their matchfixing.:D And we signed their stars Vieria, Ibra instantly :D)

So Moratti (our owner) wanted CL results from Mancini and all we got was 1/4 finals first year, 1/4 finals second year, then only 1/8 finals third years, and 4th time when patience was really running out and he could save his job with a big CL results at least a semifinals he lost to Benítez's Pool that year in 1/8 finals.
Not a single semifinals in 4 years with a strong squad.

Improving in the CL is not what Mancini did at Inter in 4 years. But won us leagues with biggest rival being AS Roma. The only reason he doesnt won the league easily or wont win it esily at City this time because he has harder rivals with better squads than that Romas was under Spalletti.

The most important question for City how important is CL to your owners?
To get good results in CL, to be a team that is feared and respected (for the results you have instead of the big transfer prices and wages you can give!) in Europe not just in England.
They will have to get a new manager for CL success, or really go out shit on FFP and get those world class players Mancini wants. A De Rossi wont be enough alone for you. The difference between Bayern, Real, Dortmund and City is not a De Rossi. A lot more than that.

CL is about:
Pace, tactics, right subs, right changes in the match, finding a mistake in the opponents's play and exploit it as soon as you can, discipline, determination and being able to adapt to your opponent and of yourse fair amount of luck also etc. Thats what was exploited with us by the rival coaches under Mancini. And thats what changed in 2010 when Mourinho won us the CL. He found those weaknesses in our play changed in them 1 year, then next time he found them in Barca, in Bayern and we won it finally.

For you it was Heynckes, Mazzari, De Boer, Mourinho, Klopp all found ways to beat City.

Only the names are different from Pellegrini, Benítez, Ancelotti, Quique Flores who found ways to beat us.

Mancini is not different he is still the same. Good in the league, simply not good enough in CL. Same as at Inter.

To say something good about him he put down some of basics for Mourinho.Thats what he did at City too. I see you complain a lot about his tactics. You shouldn as at Inter he tried everything with Ibra. You have 4 great strikers. We had Ibra mainly is later years under Mancini and it was if Ibra scores we win, if Ibra is bad we dont win.
Ibra never won CL, he is cursed thats why we never won CL with Mancini.:)

We sold Ibra after Mourinho's first year to Barca. In 2009 they won CL. Thn we sel them Ibra. We win it instantly in 2010. Barca sells Ibra 2010 summer to Milan. Barca wins again in the season after that in 2011.:)
Ibra avoided CL wins perfectly.

So when Ibra was king Inter was king, but when Ibra had a bad day we suffered as the tactics was Ibra has to solve it on his own but Mancini put behind him a very massive team that rarely conceded in the league. So tha same no concede score one and you win is MAncini's favourite thing in the world.

He would win a match 1-0 instead of 5-2.
:))

All in all I think it is just question of the time Man City owners give their squad to a manager that is good in CL. Group stage exits are pretty bad results from Mancini with full of players like Yaya toure, Tevez, Silva, Kompany, MAicon, Mario, Dzeko, Agüero. Even 1/8 finals would be bad with these players.

Stronger squad than Chelsea and they won it ast year. This year they made Cl exit now and manager was fired.

 

[Bill]

Hi Inter fan here.

I am not against City, also I dont support City, but there are strong feeling in Europe that City was one of teams being favourite to win the CL after bayern, Barca, Real and maybe Chelsea after Abramovich spent money again. (And has bigger chance than Arsenal or United as league position has a say in it generally.) City dissapointed in CL it is clear. (Dortmund is a big surprise after last year, but they are really really good.)

And thats why I signed up here I try to give you what was the problem with Mancini at Inter.


His CL record will be his end.

His Inter CL record: always went trough from group stages with us but it was expected given Inter's strenghts and the oppenets in groups (like Inter-Fenerbahce-PSV-CSKA Moscow group or Inter-Rangers-Porto-Bratislava).

From year to year in knockout rounds:

2005: 1/4 finals, Ancelotti' Milan, our city rival, pretty big loss, 0-2 loss first leg, then 0-3 second leg, with 5-0 aggregated result over two matches Milan went trough, Milan went to the finals later and there they lost to Benítez's Pool (hahahahahahaha, from 3-0 up).

2006: 1/4 finals, Pellegrini's Villarreal they reached semfinals wit win over Inter, only lost to Arsenal
(It was dissapointing as there were hopes to make it right after last years horrible loss vs. Milan, and Villarreal really did not have stars…)

2007: 1/8 finals, Valencia They then instantly lost to Chelsea next round, another dissapointing CL season, Valencia was alright with Silva and Villa upfron that time, but Inter was leading in the league we had like 24-3-0 record and Roma had 15 points less with 10 matches before the end we were winning the league basically in March. And the hopes were very high in CL and he failed to beat Valencia, news from his firing started after this season, evenif he won the league with 22 points lead in may 2007, with Lazio on third place was about 30+ points worse.

2008: 1/8 finals, Benítez's Liverpool ,they reached semifinals

Do I have to continue? Liverpool were good in England this year, they had some good players Gerrard, Xabi A, Maschearano, Torres, but we had Figo, Ibra, Vieira, Maicon, Cambiasso etc. and Mancini lost both legs (0-1 and 0-2) of this fight.
So basically he never lost to a team that won the CL later which could have been a little bit excuse for us, "look they won the whole thing,how could we beat them?"

The bad thing is naybe Milan had a better squad in 2005 than Inter but Villarreal, Valencia and Liverpool did not have better squad (or more expensive squads) than Inter in those years.

Mancini went into these knockout matches like Inter with 60-65% favourite all the time except vs. Milan in 2005. (But still Milan-Inter 2-0 then Inter -Milan 0-3 in second leg area humiliating results between city rivals in CL. Imagine if you go trough this year and meet United later on, and them winning 2-0 at home then 3-0 in your stadium, pfff.)

Even if our team was a little bit favourite he came short against Pellegrini, Benítez and Quqie Flores's Valencia. Pretty much being found out tactically. He knew everything about Serie A, he could win that without problem. (Also truth is that Juventus going Serie B helped a lot as it was impossible for to win the league unitl they were in Serie A as it turned out it was maybe because of their matchfixing.:D And we signed their stars Vieria, Ibra instantly :D)

So Moratti (our owner) wanted CL results from Mancini and all we got was 1/4 finals first year, 1/4 finals second year, then only 1/8 finals third years, and 4th time when patience was really running out and he could save his job with a big CL results at least a semifinals he lost to Benítez's Pool that year in 1/8 finals.
Not a single semifinals in 4 years with a strong squad.

Improving in the CL is not what Mancini did at Inter in 4 years. But won us leagues with biggest rival being AS Roma. The only reason he doesnt won the league easily or wont win it esily at City this time because he has harder rivals with better squads than that Romas was under Spalletti.

The most important question for City how important is CL to your owners?
To get good results in CL, to be a team that is feared and respected (for the results you have instead of the big transfer prices and wages you can give!) in Europe not just in England.
They will have to get a new manager for CL success, or really go out shit on FFP and get those world class players Mancini wants. A De Rossi wont be enough alone for you. The difference between Bayern, Real, Dortmund and City is not a De Rossi. A lot more than that.

CL is about:
Pace, tactics, right subs, right changes in the match, finding a mistake in the opponents's play and exploit it as soon as you can, discipline, determination and being able to adapt to your opponent and of yourse fair amount of luck also etc. Thats what was exploited with us by the rival coaches under Mancini. And thats what changed in 2010 when Mourinho won us the CL. He found those weaknesses in our play changed in them 1 year, then next time he found them in Barca, in Bayern and we won it finally.

For you it was Heynckes, Mazzari, De Boer, Mourinho, Klopp all found ways to beat City.

Only the names are different from Pellegrini, Benítez, Ancelotti, Quique Flores who found ways to beat us.

Mancini is not different he is still the same. Good in the league, simply not good enough in CL. Same as at Inter.

To say something good about him he put down some of basics for Mourinho.Thats what he did at City too. I see you complain a lot about his tactics. You shouldn as at Inter he tried everything with Ibra. You have 4 great strikers. We had Ibra mainly is later years under Mancini and it was if Ibra scores we win, if Ibra is bad we dont win.
Ibra never won CL, he is cursed thats why we never won CL with Mancini.:)

We sold Ibra after Mourinho's first year to Barca. In 2009 they won CL. Thn we sel them Ibra. We win it instantly in 2010. Barca sells Ibra 2010 summer to Milan. Barca wins again in the season after that in 2011.:)
Ibra avoided CL wins perfectly.

So when Ibra was king Inter was king, but when Ibra had a bad day we suffered as the tactics was Ibra has to solve it on his own but Mancini put behind him a very massive team that rarely conceded in the league. So tha same no concede score one and you win is MAncini's favourite thing in the world.

He would win a match 1-0 instead of 5-2.
:))

All in all I think it is just question of the time Man City owners give their squad to a manager that is good in CL. Group stage exits are pretty bad results from Mancini with full of players like Yaya toure, Tevez, Silva, Kompany, MAicon, Mario, Dzeko, Agüero. Even 1/8 finals would be bad with these players.

Stronger squad than Chelsea and they won it ast year. This year they made Cl exit now and manager was fired.

Wow