with the CL draw almost upon us

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Red: Marseille, Juventus, CSKA Moskva, Shakhtar.
Blue: PSG, AC Milan, Atletico, Schalke.

So drawing logically from that you get:

Red A: Real Madrid, CSKA Moskva
B: United, Marseille,
C: Porto, Juventus,
D: Arsenal, Shakhtar,

Blue
E: Barcelona, AC Milan,
F: Chelsea, Schalke,
G: Bayern, Atletico
H: Benfica, PSG,

Why though? In your red section none of the pot 2 teams come from the same country as any of the pot 1 teams so your suggestion is just one of 24 permutations.
Your blue section has fewer permutations as Schalke can't meet Bayern and Atletico can't meet Barcelona but there are still 14 possibilities. In each case these will affect the groups into which teams from groups 3 & 4 can be placed.

on the principle that UEFA have to balance making groups exciting enough to draw viewers for the group stage matches and ensure the big teams get through, thus you look at a setup of either 2 top teams and 2 weak teams or 1 top team, 2 quite strong teams and 1 really weak team, and in some cases like United in the past few seasons 1 top team and 3 weak teams. So I tried to balance the groups (with future picks in mind) like that.

That's of course if you're cynical and believe UEFA have mapped out the draw, or at least certain aspects with non-important teams filling in the gaps as necessary i.e. It doesn't really matter where Pot 4 teams go apart from Napoli and Leverkusen so the others will be interchangeable.

 

[FrancoisToure]

I love how people genuinely believe it's fixed!

Most are being facetious.

Personally what really annoys me is the rules that determine the seedings. Despite the fact that in the EPL for the past 3 years we have been clearly ahead of the two London clubs and have been more than a match for utd we keep being put in pot 3. I know it goes of CL performance but that is con - the other 3 English clubs are being measured by their performance against Anderlecht, Basle etc whilst we are measured against results against Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. The fact they are in pot 1 means that play easier teams and so maintain their coefficient, its true that our CL performance could have been better and should have been but that does not detract from the unfairness of the closed shop system that the so called G14 European clubs have conjured up. We just have to up our game up European to gate-crash this CL party.

Rant over!

If we had performed well in the Europa Leauge 2 years ago or even managed to get into it last year, we would solidly be in Pot 2 and would probably not fall to the third spot again. We have had plenty of opportunity to move up the pots but have wasted them.

 

[mike channon´s windmill]

Fenerbache banned - where does that leave le Arse as surely their will be an appeal from their previous round opponents (can´t remember the name of the club)

 

[Deleted member 52846]

Most are being facetious.

Personally what really annoys me is the rules that determine the seedings. Despite the fact that in the EPL for the past 3 years we have been clearly ahead of the two London clubs and have been more than a match for utd we keep being put in pot 3. I know it goes of CL performance but that is con - the other 3 English clubs are being measured by their performance against Anderlecht, Basle etc whilst we are measured against results against Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. The fact they are in pot 1 means that play easier teams and so maintain their coefficient, its true that our CL performance could have been better and should have been but that does not detract from the unfairness of the closed shop system that the so called G14 European clubs have conjured up. We just have to up our game up European to gate-crash this CL party.

Rant over!

If we had performed well in the Europa Leauge 2 years ago or even managed to get into it last year, we would solidly be in Pot 2 and would probably not fall to the third spot again. We have had plenty of opportunity to move up the pots but have wasted them.

We've played a grand total of twelve CL games. CFR Cluj have posed in the competition more than us and yet people think we deserve to be in higher placed ranking position or a higher pot? That's just ridiculous. As you say we've had chances to gain further points than we have but weren't good enough to gain them. plus Arsenal and Chelsea have reached finals and played in the competition since the 90s. They fully deserve to be higher up in ranking and pots than we are. I don't understand why people have a problem with this sort of thing just because we've popped up and had a few higher placed finishes than them in the Prem in the last two/three years.

There are ranking systems in loads of sports.

 

[East Level 2]

Red: Marseille, Juventus, CSKA Moskva, Shakhtar.
Blue: PSG, AC Milan, Atletico, Schalke.

So drawing logically from that you get:

Red A: Real Madrid, CSKA Moskva
B: United, Marseille,
C: Porto, Juventus,
D: Arsenal, Shakhtar,

Blue
E: Barcelona, AC Milan,
F: Chelsea, Schalke,
G: Bayern, Atletico
H: Benfica, PSG,

Why though? In your red section none of the pot 2 teams come from the same country as any of the pot 1 teams so your suggestion is just one of 24 permutations.
Your blue section has fewer permutations as Schalke can't meet Bayern and Atletico can't meet Barcelona but there are still 14 possibilities. In each case these will affect the groups into which teams from groups 3 & 4 can be placed.

on the principle that UEFA have to balance making groups exciting enough to draw viewers for the group stage matches and ensure the big teams get through, thus you look at a setup of either 2 top teams and 2 weak teams or 1 top team, 2 quite strong teams and 1 really weak team, and in some cases like United in the past few seasons 1 top team and 3 weak teams. So I tried to balance the groups (with future picks in mind) like that.

That's of course if you're cynical and believe UEFA have mapped out the draw, or at least certain aspects with non-important teams filling in the gaps as necessary i.e. It doesn't really matter where Pot 4 teams go apart from Napoli and Leverkusen so the others will be interchangeable.

So what you're saying is that even after the pairing for television, the ranking system that goes back five years and the rule about teams from the same country not playing each other; UEFA feel the need to further influence the draw?
Hot and cold balls perhaps or hot and cold load of balls?

 

[ManCitizens.]

Personally what really annoys me is the rules that determine the seedings. Despite the fact that in the EPL for the past 3 years we have been clearly ahead of the two London clubs and have been more than a match for utd we keep being put in pot 3. I know it goes of CL performance but that is con - the other 3 English clubs are being measured by their performance against Anderlecht, Basle etc whilst we are measured against results against Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. The fact they are in pot 1 means that play easier teams and so maintain their coefficient, its true that our CL performance could have been better and should have been but that does not detract from the unfairness of the closed shop system that the so called G14 European clubs have conjured up. We just have to up our game up European to gate-crash this CL party.

Rant over!

If we had performed well in the Europa Leauge 2 years ago or even managed to get into it last year, we would solidly be in Pot 2 and would probably not fall to the third spot again. We have had plenty of opportunity to move up the pots but have wasted them.

We've played a grand total of twelve CL games. CFR Cluj have posed in the competition more than us and yet people think we deserve to be in higher placed ranking position or a higher pot? That's just ridiculous. As you say we've had chances to gain further points than we have but weren't good enough to gain them. plus Arsenal and Chelsea have reached finals and played in the competition since the 90s. They fully deserve to be higher up in ranking and pots than we are. I don't understand why people have a problem with this sort of thing just because we've popped up and had a few higher placed finishes than them in the Prem in the last two/three years.

There are ranking systems in loads of sports.

Exactly, all we had to do was finish 3rd in last years group and progress to the last 16 of the Europa League. That would have got us into pot 2, the same pot we was in last season.

 

[BlueAnorak]

It should be remembered that we were a pot 2 side last year and a pot 3 side the season before that.

When a pot 3 side (paired with Arsenal) we were drawn at home in game 1
When a pot 2 side (paired with Utd) we were drawn away in game 1.

Looking at the two previous draws:
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_UEFA_Champions_League_group_stage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80 ... roup_stage</a>
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_UEFA_Champions_League_group_stage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80 ... roup_stage</a>

*** was bollocks here ***

So my guess is that as Utd will be at home we will be away against the team from Pot 4.

 

[squirtyflower]

I really don't see why everyone is getting so excited about tomorrow's draw when we have the Capital One Cup draw later tonight

 

[sam-caddick]

so hope the rags get atletico/psg - dortmund - napoli, it's about time they get a tough group.

i can see there being two group of deaths this season as well.

 

[East Level 2]

I really don't see why everyone is getting so excited about tomorrow's draw when we have the Capital One Cup draw later tonight

Very true, and I want an away trip to Accrington, Morecambe, Rotherham or Stevenage (assuming any of them win tonight) as I've never seen City on any of their grounds, or Peterborough at home as I've only ever seen us play them at their place.