with the CL draw almost upon us

[zandvoort blue]

City will get Barca, PSG, Napoli
Rags will get Schalke, Olympiakos, Austria Vienna

And then tell me its not fixed.

 

[mancitymick]

self self self self self

Ha. You know you are more than welcome to stay at mine before/after pal

might be cheaper to fly to yours and then go from there!

Thats my point

 

[MadchesterCity]

and that's where some slight rigging occurs
they should split it after the draw and not before it
it's possible for City/United and Bayern/Dortmund to play on different nights

I agree, but would it be possible given all the they can't play them and they can't play on the same night as them permutations? And do UEFA want to make it more fair?

last season Cluj were pulled out into our group and were moved into United's so they didn't get Dortmund

So the groups could have been
Tuesday night
United
xxxxx
xxxxxo
Dortmund

Wednesday night
Real
City
Ajax
Cluj

Wednesday night
Bayern
xxxxx
xxxxx
xxxxx

UEFA get Bayern/United on different nights, one rule for some reason, suppose you can't have rags on the same night whichever country they are from
City/United on different nights and Dortmund/Bayern on different nights

it was a fix

Yeah it was a fix, still pissed off about that and the hole in my wall when it was announced on TV<br /><br />-- Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:18 pm --<br /><br />

Because of the seedings and then the fact you cannot play a team from the same country and then the tv clashes/ fact City cannot play at home same night as the rags it is pretty limited in terms of the "randomness" of the draw. Surely there aren't many options for groups. It looks like we will be Pot 3, which I feel would actually be better as Pot 2 is slightly weaker overall. If we avoid Bayern, Barca or Real then our group will be manageable. It feels about time we got Barca though doesn't it!

Barca? Easy! Stuffed them last time at their place in their trophy, with Petrov's goal. Even though we only had one more shot on goal in the whole game: seem to remember it was Bellamy in the last minute.

Still, a great day out - especially down at the beach!

Baps out

 

[mike channon´s windmill]

I agree, but would it be possible given all the they can't play them and they can't play on the same night as them permutations? And do UEFA want to make it more fair?

last season Cluj were pulled out into our group and were moved into United's so they didn't get Dortmund

So the groups could have been
Tuesday night
United
xxxxx
xxxxxo
Dortmund

Wednesday night
Real
City
Ajax
Cluj

Wednesday night
Bayern
xxxxx
xxxxx
xxxxx

UEFA get Bayern/United on different nights, one rule for some reason, suppose you can't have rags on the same night whichever country they are from
City/United on different nights and Dortmund/Bayern on different nights

it was a fix

Yeah it was a fix, still pissed off about that and the hole in my wall when it was announced on TV

-- Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:18 pm --

Because of the seedings and then the fact you cannot play a team from the same country and then the tv clashes/ fact City cannot play at home same night as the rags it is pretty limited in terms of the "randomness" of the draw. Surely there aren't many options for groups. It looks like we will be Pot 3, which I feel would actually be better as Pot 2 is slightly weaker overall. If we avoid Bayern, Barca or Real then our group will be manageable. It feels about time we got Barca though doesn't it!

Barca? Easy! Stuffed them last time at their place in their trophy, with Petrov's goal. Even though we only had one more shot on goal in the whole game: seem to remember it was Bellamy in the last minute.

Still, a great day out - especially down at the beach!

Baps out

Sorry but it´s BARMS out ;)

 

[MadchesterCity]

The key is the split of the draw into two halves. So City/rags, Chelsea/Arse, Bayern/Dortmund/, Real/Barca and Porto/Benfica will all be in separate halves of the draw so their nearest domestic rivals don't have clashing TV dates. Based on the above likely seedings this means that one of City's pot 1 teams will be Chelsea or Arsenal. So that leaves City with either Bayern, Barca/Real or Porto/Benfica as their pot 1 team. If City draw Bayern or are in pot 3 we won't get Dortmund. If we draw Barca or Real we won't get Atletico Madrid. Any draw except AC Milan or Juventus from pot 2 can give us Napoli from pot 4. The one to avoid is PSG from pot 2 which City or any pot 1 team in the same half of the draw could get.

Don't forget it was this split halves of the draw that stitched us up last year. We got Dortmund as our pot 4 team simply because Bayern were in the other half of the draw and left Chelsea and the rags (who were in Bayern's half) with Norsdsjaelland and Cluj respectively. As far as Dortmund were concerned there was simply no other group left that they could be drawn in.

I don't hold with the "I don't care who we get. Bring 'em on" school of thought. That's what we got the last two seasons. I'd much prefer a winnable group than another group of death.

I'd happily settle for Porto, Olympiacos and Viktoria Plzen/Maribor. I'd hate to see us get the likes of Barca, PSG and Napoli.

I think because of Porto and Benfica both being in Pot 1 this year that Bayern have to be in our half of the draw so therefore we can't get Dortmund regardless of what happens.

We should go on the assumption that AC Milan will go through. This will mean that for arguments sake we go into the Blue half of the draw(colours are irrelevant really), our Pot 1 candidates would be Real/Barca, Bayern, Porto/Benfica.

Let's say Red is Groups A-D, and blue is E-F.

The 4 red would be Barca/Real, United, Arsenal/Chelsea, Benfica/Porto.
The 4 blue would be Barca/Real, Bayern, Arsenal/Chelsea, Benfica/Porto.

It's really neither here nor there for the Portuguese teams, but I have an inkling on Barca so reckon they'd be in our half of the draw. I also think Chelsea will be in our half as they are a stronger draw and I don't think TV would want United & Chelsea on the same night. So I'd go for:

Red A: Real, B: United, C: Porto, D: Arsenal.
Blue E: Barcelona, F: Chelsea, G: Bayern, H: Benfica.

If you go into Pot 2 by AC getting through they would have to be seperate from Juventus. PSG would have to be seperate from Marseille and CSKA Moskva would go into the opposite group from Zenit. I think Sociedad are knocking out Lyon so Juventus would be in Pot 2, Zenit in Pot 3.

Thus you have to look at the most marketable Pot 2 teams. PSG and Juventus are strong, as are Shakhtar. Marseille are Pot 1 fodder as are CSKA Moskva, Atletico I reckon would go into a different half from Real out of principle, Schalke would go in Bayern's half imo.

So you sum that up:

Red: Marseille, Juventus, CSKA Moskva, Shakhtar.
Blue: PSG, AC Milan, Atletico, Schalke.

So drawing logically from that you get:

Red A: Real Madrid, CSKA Moskva
B: United, Marseille,
C: Porto, Juventus,
D: Arsenal, Shakhtar,

Blue
E: Barcelona, AC Milan,
F: Chelsea, Schalke,
G: Bayern, Atletico
H: Benfica, PSG,

Onto Pot 3 and by virtue of CSKA Moskva being Red Zenit would be in the blue half. As United are Red we would be blue and Dortmund would be red as Bayern are blue. I believe if Sociedad knock out Lyon then Leverkusen go into 3 which would mean they go into red with Dortmund.

Red: Dortmund, Olympiakos, Ajax, Leverkusen.
Blue: Zenit, Man City, Galatasaray, Basel.

Red A: Real Madrid, CSKA Moskva, Olympiakos,
B: United, Marseille, Dortmund,
C: Porto, Juventus, Leverkusen,
D: Arsenal, Shakhtar, Ajax

Blue
E: Barcelona, AC Milan, Man City,
F: Chelsea, Schalke, Zenit,
G: Bayern, Atletico, Basel,
H: Benfica, PSG, Galatasaray,

Onto D and I think the only seeding would be Sociedad in Red as Atletico are blue, the rest would be unseeded.

Red: Real Sociedad, Napoli, Austria Wien, Steaua.
Blue: Shakhter Karagandy, Viktoria Plzen, FC Kobenhavn, Anderlecht.

Red A: Real Madrid, CSKA Moskva, Olympiakos, Napoli.
B: United, Marseille, Dortmund, Austria Wien.
C: Porto, Juventus, Leverkusen, Steaua.
D: Arsenal, Shakhtar, Ajax, Real Sociedad.

Blue
E: Barcelona, AC Milan, Man City, Anderlecht.
F: Chelsea, Schalke, Zenit, FC Kobenhavn.
G: Bayern, Atletico, Basel, Viktoria Plzen.
H: Benfica, PSG, Galatasaray, Shakhter Karagandy.

I know that's mostly guesswork but working on the basis that UEFA will want its big money makers through then Real and Napoli should go through in A if they see off CSKA, United would have Dortmund but should see off Marseille, Juventus, Porto and Leverkusen would fight for Last 16 berths(UEFA won't mind too much who goes through), Arsenal & Shakhtar should dispose of Ajax and Sociedad. In our half it would be a battle between us and AC for 2nd, Chelsea would go through with a decent team, Bayern & Atletico would expect to go through and PSG would go through with either Benfica or Galatasaray. I think although it won't be exactly like that I think with the permutations it could end up quite similar to that.

Wow if you are right with this, you are top ITK

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

The key is the split of the draw into two halves. So City/rags, Chelsea/Arse, Bayern/Dortmund/, Real/Barca and Porto/Benfica will all be in separate halves of the draw so their nearest domestic rivals don't have clashing TV dates. Based on the above likely seedings this means that one of City's pot 1 teams will be Chelsea or Arsenal. So that leaves City with either Bayern, Barca/Real or Porto/Benfica as their pot 1 team. If City draw Bayern or are in pot 3 we won't get Dortmund. If we draw Barca or Real we won't get Atletico Madrid. Any draw except AC Milan or Juventus from pot 2 can give us Napoli from pot 4. The one to avoid is PSG from pot 2 which City or any pot 1 team in the same half of the draw could get.

Don't forget it was this split halves of the draw that stitched us up last year. We got Dortmund as our pot 4 team simply because Bayern were in the other half of the draw and left Chelsea and the rags (who were in Bayern's half) with Norsdsjaelland and Cluj respectively. As far as Dortmund were concerned there was simply no other group left that they could be drawn in.

I don't hold with the "I don't care who we get. Bring 'em on" school of thought. That's what we got the last two seasons. I'd much prefer a winnable group than another group of death.

I'd happily settle for Porto, Olympiacos and Viktoria Plzen/Maribor. I'd hate to see us get the likes of Barca, PSG and Napoli.

I think because of Porto and Benfica both being in Pot 1 this year that Bayern have to be in our half of the draw so therefore we can't get Dortmund regardless of what happens.

We should go on the assumption that AC Milan will go through. This will mean that for arguments sake we go into the Blue half of the draw(colours are irrelevant really), our Pot 1 candidates would be Real/Barca, Bayern, Porto/Benfica.

Let's say Red is Groups A-D, and blue is E-F.

The 4 red would be Barca/Real, United, Arsenal/Chelsea, Benfica/Porto.
The 4 blue would be Barca/Real, Bayern, Arsenal/Chelsea, Benfica/Porto.

It's really neither here nor there for the Portuguese teams, but I have an inkling on Barca so reckon they'd be in our half of the draw. I also think Chelsea will be in our half as they are a stronger draw and I don't think TV would want United & Chelsea on the same night. So I'd go for:

Red A: Real, B: United, C: Porto, D: Arsenal.
Blue E: Barcelona, F: Chelsea, G: Bayern, H: Benfica.

If you go into Pot 2 by AC getting through they would have to be seperate from Juventus. PSG would have to be seperate from Marseille and CSKA Moskva would go into the opposite group from Zenit. I think Sociedad are knocking out Lyon so Juventus would be in Pot 2, Zenit in Pot 3.

Thus you have to look at the most marketable Pot 2 teams. PSG and Juventus are strong, as are Shakhtar. Marseille are Pot 1 fodder as are CSKA Moskva, Atletico I reckon would go into a different half from Real out of principle, Schalke would go in Bayern's half imo.

So you sum that up:

Red: Marseille, Juventus, CSKA Moskva, Shakhtar.
Blue: PSG, AC Milan, Atletico, Schalke.

So drawing logically from that you get:

Red A: Real Madrid, CSKA Moskva
B: United, Marseille,
C: Porto, Juventus,
D: Arsenal, Shakhtar,

Blue
E: Barcelona, AC Milan,
F: Chelsea, Schalke,
G: Bayern, Atletico
H: Benfica, PSG,

Onto Pot 3 and by virtue of CSKA Moskva being Red Zenit would be in the blue half. As United are Red we would be blue and Dortmund would be red as Bayern are blue. I believe if Sociedad knock out Lyon then Leverkusen go into 3 which would mean they go into red with Dortmund.

Red: Dortmund, Olympiakos, Ajax, Leverkusen.
Blue: Zenit, Man City, Galatasaray, Basel.

Red A: Real Madrid, CSKA Moskva, Olympiakos,
B: United, Marseille, Dortmund,
C: Porto, Juventus, Leverkusen,
D: Arsenal, Shakhtar, Ajax

Blue
E: Barcelona, AC Milan, Man City,
F: Chelsea, Schalke, Zenit,
G: Bayern, Atletico, Basel,
H: Benfica, PSG, Galatasaray,

Onto D and I think the only seeding would be Sociedad in Red as Atletico are blue, the rest would be unseeded.

Red: Real Sociedad, Napoli, Austria Wien, Steaua.
Blue: Shakhter Karagandy, Viktoria Plzen, FC Kobenhavn, Anderlecht.

Red A: Real Madrid, CSKA Moskva, Olympiakos, Napoli.
B: United, Marseille, Dortmund, Austria Wien.
C: Porto, Juventus, Leverkusen, Steaua.
D: Arsenal, Shakhtar, Ajax, Real Sociedad.

Blue
E: Barcelona, AC Milan, Man City, Anderlecht.
F: Chelsea, Schalke, Zenit, FC Kobenhavn.
G: Bayern, Atletico, Basel, Viktoria Plzen.
H: Benfica, PSG, Galatasaray, Shakhter Karagandy.

I know that's mostly guesswork but working on the basis that UEFA will want its big money makers through then Real and Napoli should go through in A if they see off CSKA, United would have Dortmund but should see off Marseille, Juventus, Porto and Leverkusen would fight for Last 16 berths(UEFA won't mind too much who goes through), Arsenal & Shakhtar should dispose of Ajax and Sociedad. In our half it would be a battle between us and AC for 2nd, Chelsea would go through with a decent team, Bayern & Atletico would expect to go through and PSG would go through with either Benfica or Galatasaray. I think although it won't be exactly like that I think with the permutations it could end up quite similar to that.

Wow if you are right with this, you are top ITK

...and he'll make the papers. I bet he's not far off though. Very sound reasoning. The draw is certainly not random.

 

[MadchesterCity]

last season Cluj were pulled out into our group and were moved into United's so they didn't get Dortmund

So the groups could have been
Tuesday night
United
xxxxx
xxxxxo
Dortmund

Wednesday night
Real
City
Ajax
Cluj

Wednesday night
Bayern
xxxxx
xxxxx
xxxxx

UEFA get Bayern/United on different nights, one rule for some reason, suppose you can't have rags on the same night whichever country they are from
City/United on different nights and Dortmund/Bayern on different nights

it was a fix

Yeah it was a fix, still pissed off about that and the hole in my wall when it was announced on TV

-- Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:18 pm --

Barca? Easy! Stuffed them last time at their place in their trophy, with Petrov's goal. Even though we only had one more shot on goal in the whole game: seem to remember it was Bellamy in the last minute.

Still, a great day out - especially down at the beach!

Baps out

Sorry but it´s BARMS out ;)

Some fantastic Barms on the Barca beach ;)

 

[kbb]

Here's one for the conspiracy theorists.

As the Derby is after Match 1 - City to be away to our toughest or farthest opponent on the Weds whilst Rags get easiest opponent at home on the Tues??

 

[East Level 2]

Red: Marseille, Juventus, CSKA Moskva, Shakhtar.
Blue: PSG, AC Milan, Atletico, Schalke.

So drawing logically from that you get:

Red A: Real Madrid, CSKA Moskva
B: United, Marseille,
C: Porto, Juventus,
D: Arsenal, Shakhtar,

Blue
E: Barcelona, AC Milan,
F: Chelsea, Schalke,
G: Bayern, Atletico
H: Benfica, PSG,

Why though? In your red section none of the pot 2 teams come from the same country as any of the pot 1 teams so your suggestion is just one of 24 permutations.
Your blue section has fewer permutations as Schalke can't meet Bayern and Atletico can't meet Barcelona but there are still 14 possibilities. In each case these will affect the groups into which teams from groups 3 & 4 can be placed.

 

[IrelandSuperman]

Here's one for the conspiracy theorists.

As the Derby is after Match 1 - City to be away to our toughest or farthest opponent on the Weds whilst Rags get easiest opponent at home on the Tues??

Or it could just as well be the other way around.

Just saying...