Work For Dole

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

lets be clear, this is aimed at people we know, the cycle of scumbags, the tracksuit wearing anti social, gap toothed fighters, the underclass, yet there are people who are genuinely out there who are just unemployable because they are ill educated but looking for work.

there are people out there who are well educated looking for work, however if after 2 years they haven't got a job i question their motivation(and aspirations)

its a big brush, with a lot of tar on.

a difficult dilemma.

But how is giving them menial tasks going to solve anything.? All that will happen is that we will end up having to police / supervise them (yet another cottage industry) We should be putting them on to training and apprenticeships maybe renovating all the run down and derelict properties that infest our inner cities (whoops have we solved two major problems at the same time?) thus creating housing for the homeless , single parents and allowing people to downsize thus releasing larger properties so that their housing benefit can be reduced without pain(oh maybe its three major problems).

...............the outcome would be a trained, employed population.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure there will be some that won't work but to Tar everyone with the same brush is wrong

Whats with the dislike of menial work ? Take it you think you are a cut above somebody who does a menial job.

Absolutely not.... I have no dislike whatsoever in fact I have to do menial tasks everyday....but think about how this will end up.....maybe your bins will one day be collected by someone on JSA .

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

This should have been a separate thread but is there anyone who thinks society will ever provide full employment.

I think in a post-industrial capitalistic society the answer to this question has to be no.

On that basis, social security provides a duel purpose of keeping the poorest above a certain level, which is morally right, as well as acting as a means of keeping crime and disorder to a minimum.

If they scrapped social security tomorrow, society would break down pretty quickly, and the cost of maintaining law and order would be eye-watering - aside from the effect it would have on the quality of life: not being able to leave your house at night etc - just look at South Africa.

People on the right foaming at the mouth about benefits haven't really thought through the consequences of their hearts' desires.

 

[daztrueblue91]

The bigger issue here is the mentality of people who don't want to work and want to sponge of the system. If the government were to implement this then I reckon it would affect the wrong sort of people. The stereotypical workshy sponger who don't want to work generally know how to beat the system anyway. Where as the people who genuinely want to work will be the ones who end up working for their dole money.

There are not enough jobs in the country for everyone to be employed. What we should be doing is making sure those who want to work find a proper job and not some shitty 0 hour, temp contract. For those who don't want to work they should be entitled to the bare minimum in order to survive. If that means giving them food vouchers which are not valid for alcohol and cigs then so be it. People need to learn that in order for luxuries they need to earn them.

The welfare system should be for those who need it and don't abuse it. Sadly it seems that this government are more than happy with labelling all people on benefits as scroungers. Personally I reckon people who cannot work due to health reasons or have recently lost their job (up to a year being out of work) should be entitled to a bit more money. At the end of the day we all enjoy the small luxuries in life, whether that means going to the cinema, pub or for a meal once a week. People who cannot work should still be entitled to these luxuries but that is just my opinion.

The biggest problem is that there are generations of families who have never worked and have no intention of working. And these are the people who I think programs like this are aimed at. I have been brought up to work for what I have got and I don't know what I would do if I was unemployed. But that is down to my upbringing and the way my parents taught me. There are kids nowadays who's parents don't teach them the values of getting a job so they think it is perfectly acceptable to piss their way though school and sign on the dole.

In theory it would be nice to think that everyone would want to better themselves and work for what they have but sadly this is not the case. If people genuinely do not want to work then they wont. At the end of the day they could quite easily be put in prison where they can carry on the way they are. The government should be looking at ways to motivate people in wanting to work. Offering people incentives to do voluntary jobs, or offering families free clothes or cinema vouchers if they complete courses or find a job.

I know some people will say why reward people for doing things they should be doing anyway. But perhaps showing people that there is more to life than their £70 a week might be a start.

 

[buzzer1]

lets be clear, this is aimed at people we know, the cycle of scumbags, the tracksuit wearing anti social, gap toothed fighters, the underclass, yet there are people who are genuinely out there who are just unemployable because they are ill educated but looking for work.

there are people out there who are well educated looking for work, however if after 2 years they haven't got a job i question their motivation(and aspirations)

its a big brush, with a lot of tar on.

a difficult dilemma.

But how is giving them menial tasks going to solve anything.? All that will happen is that we will end up having to police / supervise them (yet another cottage industry) We should be putting them on to training and apprenticeships maybe renovating all the run down and derelict properties that infest our inner cities (whoops have we solved two major problems at the same time?) thus creating housing for the homeless , single parents and allowing people to downsize thus releasing larger properties so that their housing benefit can be reduced without pain(oh maybe its three major problems).

...............the outcome would be a trained, employed population.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure there will be some that won't work but to Tar everyone with the same brush is wrong

Who would pay for the above?

 

[shootmeifipost10k]

There is no doubt if a scheme such as this actually starts it will force some people who have chosen to not look for a job to get their arse into gear.

I have read quite a few saying what a great idea.

All those who say this when you have a spare few hours go down to your nearest Remploy office and stand outside or if possible go inside and take a look around at who are sat in these places looking for work.

I've seen it for myself and to put it brutally some of the people who are being placed on the work program and who this will affect because they can't get a job after 2 years I wouldn't employ to pick up litter or let them do it for free.

Also can you imagine you've been in full time employment for 40 years get made redundant and your skills are no longer in the workforce. Now late 50s and competing against people 30 years younger for the same minimum wage job.You retrain and take some courses same problem and you have little chance against the younger workforce.

Worked for 30 or 40 years and now you've got to pick up littler so you get your rightful £70 a week, does that sound right because again this is the people who it will affect.

The vast majority are not as people call them feckless scroungers they are people like you and me who most likely through no fault of their own have lost their jobs. We have been hearing in the news over the past few years on a weekly basis of big businesses failing and shutting down laying off thousands of WORKERS not laying off feckless scroungers. Should these people be labeled with the same people who haven't worked through choice because no doubt that is what is going to happen.

400,000 jobs 4 million unemployed it isn't hard to figure out what the problem is.

You're conveniently forgetting that if they do not want to do the menial work that is being offered they can choose the alternative of visiting the jobcentre every day and still getting their benefits. Even if you were over 60 there are still jobs out there you can get despite what some people would like to believe. The facts are that the vast majority of people who have been constantly out of work for 2 years do it by choice.

You really think someone who as worked for 30 or 40 years and can no longer find a job should go to a job center everyday. Nothing to do with not wanting to get a menial job they simply cannot get one they are competing against a workforce 30 years younger it's not fantasy it is fact as shown below. Do you think someone who as worked for 30 year suddenly becomes lazy and doesn't want to work.

Read below then maybe have a rethink about the vast majority being out of work by choice.

The latest DWP official figures up to June 2013 that show less than 3% of over 55s on the work program find work and for the over 60s this drops to just above 1 %, bearing in my they are getting so called professional help with applying, searching and all aspects of looking for work including classes for interview techniques and re training.

Some other fact and figures.

These are the official figures for total number from the DWP on the work program
B. Analysis of all Referrals
B1. Status of all Work Programme Referrals
The status of all Work Programme Referrals as at June 2013

B : 131072000 referred to the work program

B1 : 121462000 still on the work program

Give or take that is around 100 thousand have found full time work out of 1.3 million who have gone onto the work program

Of those 100,000 only 13% have stayed in full time employment the reason being the vast majority of the other 87 % are seasonal and temporary agency jobs.

Can you explain where all these jobs when you say " They are out still jobs out there" because the people who are running these work programs cannot find jobs for 1.2 million people. If you know where they are you should get onto them and let them know.

You have to consider these companies get payments for every person that they get back into work. Each month someone is back in work they get a payment, it is in their interest to get people into work as soon as possible.

So these companies are pushing people to go for any job, part time, seasonal and temporary agency work. If they refuse their benefits are stopped and they are off the program.

I'll say it again they cannot find work for 1.2 million people who are on the work program.

 

[Hez]

The other way of looking at this is why shouldn't the long term unemployed do some menial work? What else are they doing? Maybe collecting litter and helping in the Community will help a some of people get some pride back in themselves and where they live? Just a thought, I doubt it will go down well though.

 

[stonerblue]

The reason they find it so easy to pit the poor against the poor is because the country has an underclass that make life hell for the workers amongst us who can't afford to buy our way out of the areas we live in.

I agree 100% that this is a scheme full of flaws and contradictions but at the same time, would love to see the drug dealer opposite my house forced into a low paid demeaning job. His low life mates knock about making the area resemble a fucking shanty town, his kids are feral and he mugs old people. Don't suggest reporting him because the council and police merely tell you to do their jobs for them by logging incidents.

I understand completely that the unemployed who Rasc and others know aren't these types of people but can someone please suggest what should be done about the scumbags who make normal people's lives worse than they should otherwise be?

Good post.

We all know cases like this, family of dossers just taking the piss. They use up every social service (and emergency service) and add precisely fuck all to the community. There's one in my local every day. The council do fuck all and the plod even less unless it's very serious.
But what about the other peolple on the street that get benefits? You probably don't even know who they are but most of them will have a legitimate case (and want to work)
Bringing in such draconian measures that affect every claimant, and at the same time put them in the 'piss takers' bracket, is not the way to crack this particular nut.

 

[Thenumber1blue]

The reason they find it so easy to pit the poor against the poor is because the country has an underclass that make life hell for the workers amongst us who can't afford to buy our way out of the areas we live in.

I agree 100% that this is a scheme full of flaws and contradictions but at the same time, would love to see the drug dealer opposite my house forced into a low paid demeaning job. His low life mates knock about making the area resemble a fucking shanty town, his kids are feral and he mugs old people. Don't suggest reporting him because the council and police merely tell you to do their jobs for them by logging incidents.

I understand completely that the unemployed who Rasc and others know aren't these types of people but can someone please suggest what should be done about the scumbags who make normal people's lives worse than they should otherwise be?

Good post.

We all know cases like this, family of dossers just taking the piss. They use up every social service (and emergency service) and add precisely fuck all to the community. There's one in my local every day. The council do fuck all and the plod even less unless it's very serious.
But what about the other peolple on the street that get benefits? You probably don't even know who they are but most of them will have a legitimate case (and want to work)
Bringing in such draconian measures that affect every claimant, and at the same time put them in the 'piss takers' bracket, is not the way to crack this particular nut.

I know what i'd do with the fuckers if I was running the country !

 

[mackenzie]

The other way of looking at this is why shouldn't the long term unemployed do some menial work? What else are they doing? Maybe collecting litter and helping in the Community will help a some of people get some pride back in themselves and where they live? Just a thought, I doubt it will go down well though.

We already have it. It can be applied from day one.

 

[Anonymous]

Cant see an issue with it to be honest.
If you havent found a job in 2 years you are either too picky or just plain lazy!

There are jobs to be had out there, a lot of the time people think they are too good for menial jobs. But they pay a wage.
Washing pots at a pub/restaurant is hardly a career choice but its a job, working at mcdonalds is the same.
People may think they are too good for this kind of work but are happy to take money from the state while they are "looking".
This may just prompt these said people to think twice about dodging jobs they think they are too good for, as they will have to do them anyway.
The scheme to me looks to me exactly what how it is meant to. A kick up the arse for people taking liberties of a BENEFIT not a lifestyle choice.
Nobody mentioned sick or people unable to work, Just people who have claimed job seekers allowance for over 2 years.
Good idea IMO

Have you any idea how many people apply for every job vacancy nowadays?

Even just for a post such as a simple cleaning vacancy???

here are nowhere near enough jobs available to satisfy demand from those seeking one ...

Maybe these days it is the employers who are 'too picky'!