Yaya

[Didsbury Dave]

The limitations in his game have been evident all season, not just the last 8 games

6 goals and 6 assists, is that better than Silva?

Silva is a miles better signing than ya ya and much more important to the team. I don't need stats to tell me that.

 

[redmizzle]

The limitations in his game have been evident all season, not just the last 8 games

6 goals and 6 assists, is that better than Silva?

Not to mention the two he scored against Everton and West Ham.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Silva is a miles better signing than ya ya and much more important to the team. I don't need stats to tell me that.

He probably is but this time next year there's going to be a lot of people eating humble pie.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Shall I tell you why Yaya is exactly a Mancini player? Well, who does he remind you of, Vieira perhaps? Which manager wanted Vieira and the younger version, Yaya? Bingo!!!

Does Yaya remind me of Viera?

Well the're both tall and black........ that is where any comparison ends.

 

[cityboy1]

6 goals and 6 assists, is that better than Silva?

Not to mention the two he scored against Everton and West Ham.

no one scored against everton we lost 2 nil

 

[sweep]

I think he fits fine when it's him and Balotelli. I think it takes a while to become accustomed to playing with Tevez as he can be quite unorthodox.

I don't see that as the issue at all. He's a forward who feeds off balls into the box. We don't put many in. We play a rigid 4-2-3-1 system . We already have our 1.

I think he can play, he's just doesn't fit properly.

Yaya's stamina level is obviously low though that's hardly surprising considering the stark difference in working conditions going from being probably the most underemployed defensive mid in the world and a much slower league, to playing in the prem, being a big fella accentuates the problem. The games he's playing now should certainly improve his stamina though I wouldn't expect to see the full benefit of that until after a rest period. He's been disappointing as a ball winner for me, again hopefully due to the difference in the pace of the game he's used to, in which case it should also improve but with sharpness rather than aerobic/cardio fitness. He's intelligent in his movement off the ball, on the ball he's got good technique and those driving runs are a joy to watch (though they obviously slaughter him). I disagree with you saying he slows our play down I think when were moving well and he has options available he's more than capable of keeping up the tempo as well being intricate. He hasn't been the most consistent but again, I can see this improving with experience over here. If he can nail these problems he'll improve next season and could be a fantastic centre mid in the viera mould, as I said, he has the attributes.


I think Dzeko was bought primarily with a view to having Kolarov and Johnson providing crosses, though I'm not saying he can't play a bit. Johnson's absence and Kolarovs lack of form (due, at least in part hopefully, to slow adjustment to the league) obviously negate that use. Hopefully Kolarov gets up to speed and Johnson's crossing improves with a target to aim for. Dzeko has to get more consistent at holding the ball up but he has it in him, he wins his share of flick ons also. Again, I expect his all round sharpness to improve. He was brought here to give us an option in the box in a different way to Balo and Tevez (eh? in the box?).


I also agree with Taco's comment on Tevez. Carlos' general movement is unusual for a striker (OK I'll be straight, I think it's dumb a lot of the time) and he's not the easiest to pick out unless your a Silva, also he's never near when Dzeko wins a flick on. His speed of pass is a real culprit for slowing down our attacking play, it's a personal bugbear of mine. He he often ignores good movement and easy passing options around him (I mean outside the box as much as in it) rather than keep the ball moving when there's not a chance on, I don't think he's that confident in his passing and that's s a problem for a deep striker. It's not difficult to see why he'd be difficult to partner.

 

[blueyorkie]

I have once said there was a Yaya Bias on Bluemoon. I will go ahead and use this post to point out that bias as exhibited by DD.

Simon, I'm going to get slated for this but to me he's a big problem

First a negative conclusion. Now lets see if his supporting evidence backs up this conclusion above.

We play him as the attacking midfielder, middle of the three. He is one of the big reasons why our build up play is so ponderous and slow.

Is this a true claim? Did he pass the ball back with players in advantageous positions ahead of him? Does he slow the play down? And when compared to others can he be called a big reason? Compared to Lescott, De Jong, Viera, Tevez, Micah, Barry, Kola, Hart- Just to name a few who's exclusion will do more to improve movement than the exclusion of Yaya! But lets blame him for something he is better at than 8 of the other 11 starters.

He is slow on the ball and a very negative passer.

By slow on the ball, do you mean he moves slowly? as his power runs contradicts this. Do you mean he holds on to the ball too long. Again contradicted by his one touch passing, which constitutes about 80% of his passing when he is backing the opposition's goal. As for being a negative passer, this is wrong too. There is a difference between a pressure relieving pass and a negative pass. It is subtle. One is meant to help relieve pressure momentarily i.e. a wall pass it give the player with the ball a chance to move without it while he receive it at his new position. Silva and Yaya, only 2 players on our team who do this with any consistency. They also happen to be the ones most open to receive a pass

I don't think his vision's brilliant. I don't think he finds space very well.

Notice the difference between the claim here and the one directly above. This is the first example of Subconscious Bias. Above DD says "he is slow on the ball" this might be true based on what DD values as fast or slow. But notice the next claim "I don't think" yep, subconsciously DD is saying, "he could be that he has vision, but DD doesn't think its "brilliant." Even notice the word "Brilliant" it is also a function of bias. He finds descriptor that is possibly out of reach, thus he can convince himself of his claim.
Let see, the overhead pass to Balo, the cutting pass to AJ. The Yaya-Tevez-Dzeko-Yaya one touch goal. There are are too numerous to count. But it is arguable that even that does not constitute "briliant." To that I have 2 questions and a comment 1) outside of Cecs, Silva, Wilshere and Adams who else can be deemed to have "brilliant Vision"? 2) Later on down the line you will find that DD wants AJ as Yaya's replacement, not direct but in the 11. Now can DDJ give me AJ's list of actions suggesting brilliant vision!! My, comment answers the questions above: No one, and No., AJ, has sub-par vision. Not Brilliant! Not very good! (which Yaya's is.) Not good! Not average! Sub-par (just slightly above mediocre. Yes vision is one of AJ's weakest attributes but DD wants to replace the guy "without brilliant vision" but ignore the fact that his replacement's vision is worse. Why is this? Coz there is a YAYA BIAS!

He's got something, you can see that. At home he becomes the target for the goal kicks and wins a few.

More bias! Yesterday, he won every jump ball header except for 1. Yet rather than acknowledge that fact, you undermine it by saying "he wins a few." A clear example of not wanting to give credit. This is how to spot bias my friend. He might have been poor in some games, and was rightly pilloried for it. But Yesterday, he won everything but 1. That is not "a few" that is "ALMOST ALL." A few suggest he was poor. But if he was poor you'd say "he loses most" to highlight the negative, or he "wins a few" to obscure a positive. I think your mind realized you couldn't call the negative on headers today, so you obscured that positive. I am here to unearth it, and the bias that comes with it :)

When he gets going, like a supertanker, he can shift. But these runs he makes are rarely productive.

You mean like the last game in which the first of such runs led to a cross into the box, and then a tight corner shot that had to be saved by the goalie (so much for not being accurate shooting). Or do you mean the one where he out muscled Thisvahilli(sp) and put a cross onto SWP's foot open and inside the box. Or was it the one that got Tevez the Ball on top of the 18 for a shot. Not to mention those that have in the past led to "individual effort" goals in previous games (twice!!). Yes but outside of those and the open chances some of those runs created that were fluffed by others. Yep you are absolutely right. They are rarely productive. Are you begginning to see the bias? You are throwing out all the "bias tricks."

The last 2 points were supposed to be compliments to Yaya- i,e (he has something, and he can be a tank- Showing DD is been fair in his assessment, but both comments are quickly and swiftly undermined or obscured, by claims that are either only partly true or inverted.) This is complexed Bias at work.

I had really high hopes for him when he arrived as his passing in the pre-season looked superb. He can hit the ball too, but rarely accurately.

Again, another compliment quickly undermined with the "rarely X". Statistically his accuracy is on par with every one of the offensive players, slightly better than Silva's on par with Tevez, better than Dzeko, Slightly below AJ's, and only fa

I don't think he fits well into the premiership due to the amount of time he appears to need on the ball

Yes, this the guy who seems to be able to find cutting guys up field more accurately than anyone not named Silva. The guy who moves faster with the ball than anyone else. The guy who under pressure found Tevez and Sprinted down field for a return pass for a goal. But since he has lost some balls, unlike SIllva, Tevez, Barry, De Jong, Kola, AJ and the rest who haven't lost more on the average. It must be that he needs more time on the ball than Prem gives. Right!!! Nothing has been father from the truth. He is statistically one of the most accurate passers on our squad. One of the fastest driving the ball forward. So where is this "needs time" coming from? Bias I suppose!

the same way that Robinho couldn't. Obviously he's a hugely different player but it's the pace and directness of the premiership which some players can't cope with.

Yes, lets compare him to a petulant talent that no one likes for his whiny nature. Then we can having him in the perfect negative light.

I can't really see where he fits in our system either. He's be better in a 4-4-2 or on the right side of a midfield diamond.

Lets ignore where he plays in our system he has been shown to be quite productive.

Controversial I know, but I think he fills the space Silva should be in, particularly at home

There is nothing controversial about it. A majority share this biased opinion. And I call it biased because it is not supported by the facts.

I think when AJ returns we should look to drop him.

Yes, considering how impressive AJ had been with his vision, and how AJ does not need time on the ball to dribble defenders. And how his runs more often results in something positive. Nice thought though!

I know many thing he should play alongside NDJ, and I know he's played there in the past, but he hasn't really impressed me when he's played there either.

And when was this that he played along NDJ and didn't impress U?

A disappointing signing for me if I'm honest. Yesterday encapsulated all my points above to me.

And here is the kicker- Had all the above been said on the power of viewing from a whole season, one might have thought, hmmm, okay! But apparently, everything said above was encapsulated in yesterdays game.

The same game in which he was as accurate shooting as any other player yesterday. Or was I the only one who counted 3 shots that had to be muffed by a good goalie? But SIlva fluffed badly on one shot, similar to Balo's fluff a few weeks back -had those been Yaya- we would have discussed it ad nauseum and highlighted on the list of "not so accurate"- Based on DD's rant shouldn't we we start to wonder whether that SIlva and Balo were a mistake? You know, with their ability to flop on volley's and all when shooting, or does the rule only apply to Yaya, even when we have no record of Yaya so flopping on a shot-

Worse still, no one questioned DD's claims.
I have said before, and I'll say it again- There is an anti Yaya bias on Bluemoon, and here is a clear example of one.

Nothing wrong with slating a player in my opinion. But lets do it on the FACTS- and in comparison to others. Not on imagined stuff.
The real reason folks don't like Yaya is simple. He doesn't expend as much energy on defense. This often rubs English fans the wrong way. But if that is the case, say so! Don't make things up. Offensively, Yaya has been better than 90% of the league at retaining possession and creating advantageous plays for teammates. his shooting is powerful and accurate. Even more accurate than stats would show, coz often his shots are being blocked out for corners, but they were lazers on course. His vision is not in question, you can cue 50% of over the top passes to Balo, slips to the wing for Kola or Zab. AJ best attributes is highlighted by Yaya's vision of finding him on the cut. Numerous occasions. He touches the ball more than any other player on offense. Often just one touch and move But this tells you he is moving and getting open.

But that thing about being "stuck in" and how it has become the epitome of who cares, is really Yaya's only problem and the basis of the ever increasing bias. The groans when Yay's mispasses, that would have been replaced of claps of "he tried" if it has been Silva.

It is time to stop the bias!!! beginning with you DD~

I think you make some good points.I am a great Yaya fan,have been since I saw him play for Olympiakos in a pre season game about 5 years ago.To me he could be the best midfield player in the league. i think he has been nowhere near his best yet, there are numerous examples of foreign players takingtime to come good, Drogba, Lady Boy,Bergkamp and Henry come to mind immediately. A little patience and I think we'll see what a fantastic player we have.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Does Yaya remind me of Viera?

Well the're both tall and black........ that is where any comparison ends.

Yep you're right, Vieira in his pomp and Yaya now are a million miles apart!

 

[Dax777]

You won't get slated off me DD, you are spot on. Yaya is a huge problem in our side. people keep poimting to these so called bursts he makes from the half way line but you could count them on one hand.

I know this is meant to be a figure of speech, but you actually can't count them on one hand. Not even on 2 hands if you had 10 fingers on each hand. Again, another example of underminning the qualities of a player you don't like!

He never dictates midfield, never bosses it and for me is the one player above all who slows down the play to a snails pace.

He actually does dictate how our midfield plays. He is the fulcrum of our one touch football. He initiates the quick 1-2 pass. A Barcelona staple. Unfortunately we have too many poorly trained players who don't understand the value of this. And would rather try to drive the ball forward and cause bottled up scenarios.

If you watch him, when he receives the ball, his body shape is all wrong, always facing our own goal therefore the flow of the move is stalled. Watch Silva who opens his body before receiving the ball and is invariably running on to the pass to keep momentum in a move. For me he has no use in our midfield, he's like an extra thrown in because we bought him.

Now this is the closest to factual analysis you have come. An appreciated upgrade from the generalized drivel that often represents the slating posts... For that I commend you. But lets analyze properly. There are different instances in a game that dictates the preferred stance when receiving the ball. If you played at any level of organized football, yes you would have heard coaches barking to players to open their stance when receiving the ball- And full disclosure here I do this too. But once you go beyond the elementary basics, it gets more nuanced than that. Often when Yaya receives the ball with his back facing the oppositions goal, he is doing it in our half of the field. This is a pressure release reception. It is when a midfielder Tracks back into his half to relief the defender of pressure. The key to this reception of the ball is to know what your decision is before the ball gets to you. Either you are coming to receive for an immediate return to the original passer, who by passing it to you, has relieved himself of the inherent pressure on him and can readjust to make a play, or you receive it with the intent of serving as a pivot wall to swing it to the next player in a triangle. Most of the time when that midfielder is checking down there is always pressure coming behind him, So it is a one touch back, or one touch to a pivot and then move to the next open pocket. Which is almost always created by the guy who follows you when you check down to relieve your teammate.
No one on City, absolutely no one, not even SIlva does this better than Yaya. What that move does is guarantee continued possession. Barca has turned it into a systemic staple. They do it backwards, sideways, diagonally, and any which way. But it is still the same basic concept. The reason your back is fully turned is so you are fully protecting the distribution. Even Silva does this when he comes down to relief pressure.

DeJong does the destroyer role, Silva the trickery, vision and passing, so we need either wide players or an extra body in the centre who also has pace and the ability to drive forward. That man is Milner who has a bit of everything. The defensive qualities Mancini is obsessed wih yet the drive to get froward. Sadly Mancini plays Yayas no matter what, he is his darling despite his limitations and obvious lack of mobility in the fast paced EPL.

Okay, I see we are back to generalized fluff talk. But even then, you have to admit to having seen Yaya drive the ball forward. Everyone has. Even if some try to undermine or undervalue it. So saying Mancini needs someone who can drive the ball forward, and then concluding that said player is not the one KNOWN for going on driving runs, kinda puts a spoke in your wheels, no?
Player who drives the ball forward with pace thru the middle. If there was a dictionary picture of such a player, it would probably have Yaya's smilling mug :) That said, I agree with you that his defensive work is a bit lacking.

But I forgot, on bluemoon one isn't allowed to be critical of players anymore so i'll change my opinion. He is a God who can do no wrong like mancini.

On the contrary, you could be critical, I myself find the "lets not criticize our players" crew a little tiresome. This is a forum after-all, we can't just all throw roses. But when you criticize, you should also expect factual challenges to your criticisms. And those should be the essence of the debate.

 

[redmizzle]

Not to mention the two he scored against Everton and West Ham.

no one scored against everton we lost 2 nil

2-1, don't make yourself look silly.