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Yaya
- Thread starter simon23
- Start date
Rammy Blue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 23 May 2008
- Messages
- 30,538
Didsbury Dave said:Yet another £150k per week international who needs a season to bed in, rammy, mate?Rammy Blue said:He needs to be played in front of the back 4 with Nige, unfortunately Bob rather likes Barry there because of his left peg.
Yaya is a player that will be immense for us next year when he has had a full season under his belt.
Funny how silva and balotelli didn't need that....
I don't know mate, you should be more than aware that some players settle in different ways.
Silva took a few months to get up to speed, some players just benefit from a full season followed by a proper pre-season.
Someone like Kolarov though is a different matter, he will not make the grade and as such a new left back needs to be on the summer shopping list.
blue wang
Well-Known Member
i thought he had a cracker against reading,
made good runs , looked threatening, good shots
his work rate is definitely improving.
he was even tracking back and i very confident he is getting use to the pace of the league , i think he is gonna be something come the last few games
it does not make sense for him not to be getting fitter, dont mean to be xenophobic in any sense but that north african build ( from my observations) is capbable of stamina, power that our carcaesian brothers will srugle to match.
It is a result of the selective breeding used in the slave days . It is no coincidence him and his brother are relative world beaters.
god bless the queen
made good runs , looked threatening, good shots
his work rate is definitely improving.
he was even tracking back and i very confident he is getting use to the pace of the league , i think he is gonna be something come the last few games
it does not make sense for him not to be getting fitter, dont mean to be xenophobic in any sense but that north african build ( from my observations) is capbable of stamina, power that our carcaesian brothers will srugle to match.
It is a result of the selective breeding used in the slave days . It is no coincidence him and his brother are relative world beaters.
god bless the queen
Ntini77
Well-Known Member
I was expecting the black Gerrard. I was wrong.
greeny-ctid
Well-Known Member
we wont see the best of yaya toure until nest season!<br /><br />-- Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:29 pm --<br /><br />
wait till next season mate he might be like gerrard yet!
Ntini77 said:I was expecting the black Gerrard. I was wrong.
wait till next season mate he might be like gerrard yet!
peoffrey
Well-Known Member
If anyone needs a reminder of what he can do then look at the highlights of Fulham or West Ham away. Some terrific runs and confident finishes to put the ball in the back of the net. We just haven't seen enough of it to justify his allegedly huge salary.
He's been fair in his first season and it's naive to judge him without a year to adjust to a new league - but I agree that criticism is acceptable when we look at performances like yesterday.
He's been fair in his first season and it's naive to judge him without a year to adjust to a new league - but I agree that criticism is acceptable when we look at performances like yesterday.
Yaya has got to be rested on thursday, Tevez had a right go at him yesterday. Tevez shouted to him to drop back into midfield and mark a player, yaya just kept on strolling back so Tevez had to do it for him, so he let him have it with both barrels! I thought he was prepared to do the work going forward but not so prepared to do the tracking back.
I have once said there was a Yaya Bias on Bluemoon. I will go ahead and use this post to point out that bias as exhibited by DD.
Let see, the overhead pass to Balo, the cutting pass to AJ. The Yaya-Tevez-Dzeko-Yaya one touch goal. There are are too numerous to count. But it is arguable that even that does not constitute "briliant." To that I have 2 questions and a comment 1) outside of Cecs, Silva, Wilshere and Adams who else can be deemed to have "brilliant Vision"? 2) Later on down the line you will find that DD wants AJ as Yaya's replacement, not direct but in the 11. Now can DDJ give me AJ's list of actions suggesting brilliant vision!! My, comment answers the questions above: No one, and No., AJ, has sub-par vision. Not Brilliant! Not very good! (which Yaya's is.) Not good! Not average! Sub-par (just slightly above mediocre. Yes vision is one of AJ's weakest attributes but DD wants to replace the guy "without brilliant vision" but ignore the fact that his replacement's vision is worse. Why is this? Coz there is a YAYA BIAS!
More bias! Yesterday, he won every jump ball header except for 1. Yet rather than acknowledge that fact, you undermine it by saying "he wins a few." A clear example of not wanting to give credit. This is how to spot bias my friend. He might have been poor in some games, and was rightly pilloried for it. But Yesterday, he won everything but 1. That is not "a few" that is "ALMOST ALL." A few suggest he was poor. But if he was poor you'd say "he loses most" to highlight the negative, or he "wins a few" to obscure a positive. I think your mind realized you couldn't call the negative on headers today, so you obscured that positive. I am here to unearth it, and the bias that comes with it :)
The last 2 points were supposed to be compliments to Yaya- i,e (he has something, and he can be a tank- Showing DD is been fair in his assessment, but both comments are quickly and swiftly undermined or obscured, by claims that are either only partly true or inverted.) This is complexed Bias at work.
And here is the kicker- Had all the above been said on the power of viewing from a whole season, one might have thought, hmmm, okay! But apparently, everything said above was encapsulated in yesterdays game.
The same game in which he was as accurate shooting as any other player yesterday. Or was I the only one who counted 3 shots that had to be muffed by a good goalie? But SIlva fluffed badly on one shot, similar to Balo's fluff a few weeks back -had those been Yaya- we would have discussed it ad nauseum and highlighted on the list of "not so accurate"- Based on DD's rant shouldn't we we start to wonder whether that SIlva and Balo were a mistake? You know, with their ability to flop on volley's and all when shooting, or does the rule only apply to Yaya, even when we have no record of Yaya so flopping on a shot-
Worse still, no one questioned DD's claims.
I have said before, and I'll say it again- There is an anti Yaya bias on Bluemoon, and here is a clear example of one.
Nothing wrong with slating a player in my opinion. But lets do it on the FACTS- and in comparison to others. Not on imagined stuff.
The real reason folks don't like Yaya is simple. He doesn't expend as much energy on defense. This often rubs English fans the wrong way. But if that is the case, say so! Don't make things up. Offensively, Yaya has been better than 90% of the league at retaining possession and creating advantageous plays for teammates. his shooting is powerful and accurate. Even more accurate than stats would show, coz often his shots are being blocked out for corners, but they were lazers on course. His vision is not in question, you can cue 50% of over the top passes to Balo, slips to the wing for Kola or Zab. AJ best attributes is highlighted by Yaya's vision of finding him on the cut. Numerous occasions. He touches the ball more than any other player on offense. Often just one touch and move But this tells you he is moving and getting open.
But that thing about being "stuck in" and how it has become the epitome of who cares, is really Yaya's only problem and the basis of the ever increasing bias. The groans when Yay's mispasses, that would have been replaced of claps of "he tried" if it has been Silva.
It is time to stop the bias!!! beginning with you DD~
First a negative conclusion. Now lets see if his supporting evidence backs up this conclusion above.Didsbury Dave said:Simon, I'm going to get slated for this but to me he's a big problem
Is this a true claim? Did he pass the ball back with players in advantageous positions ahead of him? Does he slow the play down? And when compared to others can he be called a big reason? Compared to Lescott, De Jong, Viera, Tevez, Micah, Barry, Kola, Hart- Just to name a few who's exclusion will do more to improve movement than the exclusion of Yaya! But lets blame him for something he is better at than 8 of the other 11 starters.We play him as the attacking midfielder, middle of the three. He is one of the big reasons why our build up play is so ponderous and slow.
By slow on the ball, do you mean he moves slowly? as his power runs contradicts this. Do you mean he holds on to the ball too long. Again contradicted by his one touch passing, which constitutes about 80% of his passing when he is backing the opposition's goal. As for being a negative passer, this is wrong too. There is a difference between a pressure relieving pass and a negative pass. It is subtle. One is meant to help relieve pressure momentarily i.e. a wall pass it give the player with the ball a chance to move without it while he receive it at his new position. Silva and Yaya, only 2 players on our team who do this with any consistency. They also happen to be the ones most open to receive a passHe is slow on the ball and a very negative passer.
Notice the difference between the claim here and the one directly above. This is the first example of Subconscious Bias. Above DD says "he is slow on the ball" this might be true based on what DD values as fast or slow. But notice the next claim "I don't think" yep, subconsciously DD is saying, "he could be that he has vision, but DD doesn't think its "brilliant." Even notice the word "Brilliant" it is also a function of bias. He finds descriptor that is possibly out of reach, thus he can convince himself of his claim.I don't think his vision's brilliant. I don't think he finds space very well.
Let see, the overhead pass to Balo, the cutting pass to AJ. The Yaya-Tevez-Dzeko-Yaya one touch goal. There are are too numerous to count. But it is arguable that even that does not constitute "briliant." To that I have 2 questions and a comment 1) outside of Cecs, Silva, Wilshere and Adams who else can be deemed to have "brilliant Vision"? 2) Later on down the line you will find that DD wants AJ as Yaya's replacement, not direct but in the 11. Now can DDJ give me AJ's list of actions suggesting brilliant vision!! My, comment answers the questions above: No one, and No., AJ, has sub-par vision. Not Brilliant! Not very good! (which Yaya's is.) Not good! Not average! Sub-par (just slightly above mediocre. Yes vision is one of AJ's weakest attributes but DD wants to replace the guy "without brilliant vision" but ignore the fact that his replacement's vision is worse. Why is this? Coz there is a YAYA BIAS!
He's got something, you can see that. At home he becomes the target for the goal kicks and wins a few.
More bias! Yesterday, he won every jump ball header except for 1. Yet rather than acknowledge that fact, you undermine it by saying "he wins a few." A clear example of not wanting to give credit. This is how to spot bias my friend. He might have been poor in some games, and was rightly pilloried for it. But Yesterday, he won everything but 1. That is not "a few" that is "ALMOST ALL." A few suggest he was poor. But if he was poor you'd say "he loses most" to highlight the negative, or he "wins a few" to obscure a positive. I think your mind realized you couldn't call the negative on headers today, so you obscured that positive. I am here to unearth it, and the bias that comes with it :)
You mean like the last game in which the first of such runs led to a cross into the box, and then a tight corner shot that had to be saved by the goalie (so much for not being accurate shooting). Or do you mean the one where he out muscled Thisvahilli(sp) and put a cross onto SWP's foot open and inside the box. Or was it the one that got Tevez the Ball on top of the 18 for a shot. Not to mention those that have in the past led to "individual effort" goals in previous games (twice!!). Yes but outside of those and the open chances some of those runs created that were fluffed by others. Yep you are absolutely right. They are rarely productive. Are you begginning to see the bias? You are throwing out all the "bias tricks."When he gets going, like a supertanker, he can shift. But these runs he makes are rarely productive.
The last 2 points were supposed to be compliments to Yaya- i,e (he has something, and he can be a tank- Showing DD is been fair in his assessment, but both comments are quickly and swiftly undermined or obscured, by claims that are either only partly true or inverted.) This is complexed Bias at work.
Again, another compliment quickly undermined with the "rarely X". Statistically his accuracy is on par with every one of the offensive players, slightly better than Silva's on par with Tevez, better than Dzeko, Slightly below AJ's, and only faI had really high hopes for him when he arrived as his passing in the pre-season looked superb. He can hit the ball too, but rarely accurately.
Yes, this the guy who seems to be able to find cutting guys up field more accurately than anyone not named Silva. The guy who moves faster with the ball than anyone else. The guy who under pressure found Tevez and Sprinted down field for a return pass for a goal. But since he has lost some balls, unlike SIllva, Tevez, Barry, De Jong, Kola, AJ and the rest who haven't lost more on the average. It must be that he needs more time on the ball than Prem gives. Right!!! Nothing has been father from the truth. He is statistically one of the most accurate passers on our squad. One of the fastest driving the ball forward. So where is this "needs time" coming from? Bias I suppose!I don't think he fits well into the premiership due to the amount of time he appears to need on the ball
Yes, lets compare him to a petulant talent that no one likes for his whiny nature. Then we can having him in the perfect negative light.the same way that Robinho couldn't. Obviously he's a hugely different player but it's the pace and directness of the premiership which some players can't cope with.
Lets ignore where he plays in our system he has been shown to be quite productive.I can't really see where he fits in our system either. He's be better in a 4-4-2 or on the right side of a midfield diamond.
There is nothing controversial about it. A majority share this biased opinion. And I call it biased because it is not supported by the facts.Controversial I know, but I think he fills the space Silva should be in, particularly at home
Yes, considering how impressive AJ had been with his vision, and how AJ does not need time on the ball to dribble defenders. And how his runs more often results in something positive. Nice thought though!I think when AJ returns we should look to drop him.
And when was this that he played along NDJ and didn't impress U?I know many thing he should play alongside NDJ, and I know he's played there in the past, but he hasn't really impressed me when he's played there either.
A disappointing signing for me if I'm honest. Yesterday encapsulated all my points above to me.
And here is the kicker- Had all the above been said on the power of viewing from a whole season, one might have thought, hmmm, okay! But apparently, everything said above was encapsulated in yesterdays game.
The same game in which he was as accurate shooting as any other player yesterday. Or was I the only one who counted 3 shots that had to be muffed by a good goalie? But SIlva fluffed badly on one shot, similar to Balo's fluff a few weeks back -had those been Yaya- we would have discussed it ad nauseum and highlighted on the list of "not so accurate"- Based on DD's rant shouldn't we we start to wonder whether that SIlva and Balo were a mistake? You know, with their ability to flop on volley's and all when shooting, or does the rule only apply to Yaya, even when we have no record of Yaya so flopping on a shot-
Worse still, no one questioned DD's claims.
I have said before, and I'll say it again- There is an anti Yaya bias on Bluemoon, and here is a clear example of one.
Nothing wrong with slating a player in my opinion. But lets do it on the FACTS- and in comparison to others. Not on imagined stuff.
The real reason folks don't like Yaya is simple. He doesn't expend as much energy on defense. This often rubs English fans the wrong way. But if that is the case, say so! Don't make things up. Offensively, Yaya has been better than 90% of the league at retaining possession and creating advantageous plays for teammates. his shooting is powerful and accurate. Even more accurate than stats would show, coz often his shots are being blocked out for corners, but they were lazers on course. His vision is not in question, you can cue 50% of over the top passes to Balo, slips to the wing for Kola or Zab. AJ best attributes is highlighted by Yaya's vision of finding him on the cut. Numerous occasions. He touches the ball more than any other player on offense. Often just one touch and move But this tells you he is moving and getting open.
But that thing about being "stuck in" and how it has become the epitome of who cares, is really Yaya's only problem and the basis of the ever increasing bias. The groans when Yay's mispasses, that would have been replaced of claps of "he tried" if it has been Silva.
It is time to stop the bias!!! beginning with you DD~
jay_mcfc
Well-Known Member
Didsbury Dave said:Simon, I'm going to get slated for this but to me he's a big problem. We play him as the attacking midfielder, middle of the three. He is one of the big reasons why our build up play is so ponderous and slow. He is slow on the ball and a very negative passer. I don't think his vision's brilliant. I don't think he finds space very well.
He's got something, you can see that. At home he becomes the target for the goal kicks and wins a few. When he gets going, like a supertanker, he can shift. But these runs he makes are rarely productive. I had really high hopes for him when he arrived as his passing in the pre-season looked superb. He can hit the ball too, but rarely accurately.
I don't think he fits well into the premiership due to the amount of time he appears to need on the ball - the same way that Robinho couldn't. Obviously he's a hugely different player but it's the pace and directness of the premiership which some players can't cope with.
I can't really see where he fits in our system either. He's be better in a 4-4-2 or on the right side of a midfield diamond.
Controversial I know, but I think he fills the space Silva should be in, particularly at home. I think when AJ returns we should look to drop him. I know many thing he should play alongside NDJ, and I know he's played there in the past, but he hasn't really impressed me when he's played there either.
A disappointing signing for me if I'm honest. Yesterday encapsulated all my points above to me.
You get worse by the post! You're lack of knowledge is astounding.
He's slow, ponderous and passes sideways because that is the way City play now... get used to it! We're now a team that can put their foot on the ball, keep possession and attack with patience. I know you don't like that but it's tough.
And as for dropping Yaya when we are already lacking a player who can attack and defend equally impressively is the ramblings of an absolute mad man.
The games he hasn't played we've missed him badly. Yesterday he was fantastic in the second half and he was the man who got us playing better with a few bursting runs and he really looked up for it.
His form drifts in and out at times but yes he will be better next season, as will Silva and Balotelli. I don't know how many times it has to be proven but foreigners more times than not are better in the second season but some things just don't suit agendas.
leighton
Well-Known Member
At this moment Yaya playing the more advanced role in midfield is maybe the best place he can play as part of this team. I wouldnt like to see him play alongside either Barry or De Jong just yet. He seems to be a bit of a pussy at times. He pulls out of tackles and that just pisses me off for the size of the man he needs to man up and put his foot in and put himself about a bit more. Also he could do with loosing a bit of weight. Next season I would hope to see a slimline Yaya who would be more up to playing in England.