Yaya

[jay_mcfc]

These English media type comments always leaves me cracking on the floor. You mean get stuck in like Ramsey did, and lost a year and a half of football for it. Or like Micah did and lost 3 weeks. These gladiator acts that gain you so little (at best possession for a few seconds, but more likely- a foul against you, perhaps a caution for aggressiveness, a throw in to the other team, a dismisal for rough play o at worst an injury/longterm). This is the quality most cherished by fans?
I mean fans often don't think these things through, so it is understandable, but to have coaches, ex-players and commentators who parrot that idiocy is saddening.

Not only does it take away from the game, when we lose a player like Ramsey for over a years, it is often equally pointless considering the risk reward matrix of this decisions. Very little reward, very high risk. It is just not a smart proposition, not short term or long term. But Prem fans swear by it. They clap to high heavens when they see it. Even though more often than not is changes nothing at all.

Tevez runs five miles to come put a ball into throwing. He gets a standing ovation for his "stuck in" effort. Only for him to get up, walk back to his position up front a little more tired than he needed to be. The other team is still in possession with a throw in. They quickly throw the ball in and are back exactly where they were before Tevez chased 5 miles to poke it into throw in. The only thing lost is a few seconds, and Tevez is a little more tired than he should be at this point. A few minutes later Tevez's form on a shot looks bad. The shot misses the target badly and you wonder if it'd coz of the mental fatigue from expending so much energy giving up a throw in earlier :(

The irrationality of get "stuck in" :?

You're on fire!!

 

[CaptainCarlos]

I have once said there was a Yaya Bias on Bluemoon. I will go ahead and use this post to point out that bias as exhibited by DD.

First a negative conclusion. Now lets see if his supporting evidence backs up this conclusion above.

Is this a true claim? Did he pass the ball back with players in advantageous positions ahead of him? Does he slow the play down? And when compared to others can he be called a big reason? Compared to Lescott, De Jong, Viera, Tevez, Micah, Barry, Kola, Hart- Just to name a few who's exclusion will do more to improve movement than the exclusion of Yaya! But lets blame him for something he is better at than 8 of the other 11 starters.

By slow on the ball, do you mean he moves slowly? as his power runs contradicts this. Do you mean he holds on to the ball too long. Again contradicted by his one touch passing, which constitutes about 80% of his passing when he is backing the opposition's goal. As for being a negative passer, this is wrong too. There is a difference between a pressure relieving pass and a negative pass. It is subtle. One is meant to help relieve pressure momentarily i.e. a wall pass it give the player with the ball a chance to move without it while he receive it at his new position. Silva and Yaya, only 2 players on our team who do this with any consistency. They also happen to be the ones most open to receive a pass

Notice the difference between the claim here and the one directly above. This is the first example of Subconscious Bias. Above DD says "he is slow on the ball" this might be true based on what DD values as fast or slow. But notice the next claim "I don't think" yep, subconsciously DD is saying, "he could be that he has vision, but DD doesn't think its "brilliant." Even notice the word "Brilliant" it is also a function of bias. He finds descriptor that is possibly out of reach, thus he can convince himself of his claim.
Let see, the overhead pass to Balo, the cutting pass to AJ. The Yaya-Tevez-Dzeko-Yaya one touch goal. There are are too numerous to count. But it is arguable that even that does not constitute "briliant." To that I have 2 questions and a comment 1) outside of Cecs, Silva, Wilshere and Adams who else can be deemed to have "brilliant Vision"? 2) Later on down the line you will find that DD wants AJ as Yaya's replacement, not direct but in the 11. Now can DDJ give me AJ's list of actions suggesting brilliant vision!! My, comment answers the questions above: No one, and No., AJ, has sub-par vision. Not Brilliant! Not very good! (which Yaya's is.) Not good! Not average! Sub-par (just slightly above mediocre. Yes vision is one of AJ's weakest attributes but DD wants to replace the guy "without brilliant vision" but ignore the fact that his replacement's vision is worse. Why is this? Coz there is a YAYA BIAS!



More bias! Yesterday, he won every jump ball header except for 1. Yet rather than acknowledge that fact, you undermine it by saying "he wins a few." A clear example of not wanting to give credit. This is how to spot bias my friend. He might have been poor in some games, and was rightly pilloried for it. But Yesterday, he won everything but 1. That is not "a few" that is "ALMOST ALL." A few suggest he was poor. But if he was poor you'd say "he loses most" to highlight the negative, or he "wins a few" to obscure a positive. I think your mind realized you couldn't call the negative on headers today, so you obscured that positive. I am here to unearth it, and the bias that comes with it :)


You mean like the last game in which the first of such runs led to a cross into the box, and then a tight corner shot that had to be saved by the goalie (so much for not being accurate shooting). Or do you mean the one where he out muscled Thisvahilli(sp) and put a cross onto SWP's foot open and inside the box. Or was it the one that got Tevez the Ball on top of the 18 for a shot. Not to mention those that have in the past led to "individual effort" goals in previous games (twice!!). Yes but outside of those and the open chances some of those runs created that were fluffed by others. Yep you are absolutely right. They are rarely productive. Are you begginning to see the bias? You are throwing out all the "bias tricks."

The last 2 points were supposed to be compliments to Yaya- i,e (he has something, and he can be a tank- Showing DD is been fair in his assessment, but both comments are quickly and swiftly undermined or obscured, by claims that are either only partly true or inverted.) This is complexed Bias at work.

Again, another compliment quickly undermined with the "rarely X". Statistically his accuracy is on par with every one of the offensive players, slightly better than Silva's on par with Tevez, better than Dzeko, Slightly below AJ's, and only fa

Yes, this the guy who seems to be able to find cutting guys up field more accurately than anyone not named Silva. The guy who moves faster with the ball than anyone else. The guy who under pressure found Tevez and Sprinted down field for a return pass for a goal. But since he has lost some balls, unlike SIllva, Tevez, Barry, De Jong, Kola, AJ and the rest who haven't lost more on the average. It must be that he needs more time on the ball than Prem gives. Right!!! Nothing has been father from the truth. He is statistically one of the most accurate passers on our squad. One of the fastest driving the ball forward. So where is this "needs time" coming from? Bias I suppose!


Yes, lets compare him to a petulant talent that no one likes for his whiny nature. Then we can having him in the perfect negative light.


Lets ignore where he plays in our system he has been shown to be quite productive.


There is nothing controversial about it. A majority share this biased opinion. And I call it biased because it is not supported by the facts.

Yes, considering how impressive AJ had been with his vision, and how AJ does not need time on the ball to dribble defenders. And how his runs more often results in something positive. Nice thought though!

And when was this that he played along NDJ and didn't impress U?



And here is the kicker- Had all the above been said on the power of viewing from a whole season, one might have thought, hmmm, okay! But apparently, everything said above was encapsulated in yesterdays game.

The same game in which he was as accurate shooting as any other player yesterday. Or was I the only one who counted 3 shots that had to be muffed by a good goalie? But SIlva fluffed badly on one shot, similar to Balo's fluff a few weeks back -had those been Yaya- we would have discussed it ad nauseum and highlighted on the list of "not so accurate"- Based on DD's rant shouldn't we we start to wonder whether that SIlva and Balo were a mistake? You know, with their ability to flop on volley's and all when shooting, or does the rule only apply to Yaya, even when we have no record of Yaya so flopping on a shot-

Worse still, no one questioned DD's claims.
I have said before, and I'll say it again- There is an anti Yaya bias on Bluemoon, and here is a clear example of one.

Nothing wrong with slating a player in my opinion. But lets do it on the FACTS- and in comparison to others. Not on imagined stuff.
The real reason folks don't like Yaya is simple. He doesn't expend as much energy on defense. This often rubs English fans the wrong way. But if that is the case, say so! Don't make things up. Offensively, Yaya has been better than 90% of the league at retaining possession and creating advantageous plays for teammates. his shooting is powerful and accurate. Even more accurate than stats would show, coz often his shots are being blocked out for corners, but they were lazers on course. His vision is not in question, you can cue 50% of over the top passes to Balo, slips to the wing for Kola or Zab. AJ best attributes is highlighted by Yaya's vision of finding him on the cut. Numerous occasions. He touches the ball more than any other player on offense. Often just one touch and move But this tells you he is moving and getting open.

But that thing about being "stuck in" and how it has become the epitome of who cares, is really Yaya's only problem and the basis of the ever increasing bias. The groans when Yay's mispasses, that would have been replaced of claps of "he tried" if it has been Silva.

It is time to stop the bias!!! beginning with you DD~

I shouldn't have bothered replying, this is much better than anything I could ever say.

Well done.

Yup! Top class! Well articulated and well dissected fact based response!

Only a fool will dare reply!!

 

[KingofDraw]

I know there is no way yaya toure only lost one header in that game. from the goal kicks.

 

[Blumers Bloomers]

this season he's the most frustrating player in our squad.

he's either absolutely shite or he's top class.you just don't know which yaya toure will roll up on matchdays.

the way he normally starts the game, is the way he always finishes it.

Normally in the space of 90 minutes.

What amazes me is how he still seems pretty unfit. He did a run down the left yesterday in the second half and then was bent over for 30 seconds recovering (think he got a bit of a rest whilst someone strolled over to take the corner Yaya had won).........refreshing though it was to see him using his strength, someone the size of Yaya should be physically imposing himself in midfield every game, not a couple of sporadic bursts forward when the mood takes him

And to whoever said look to the Fulham/West Ham away games to see how good he is - sorry, those games were over 4 months ago and he's not done a great deal to get excited about since

 

[Mancio]

At this moment Yaya playing the more advanced role in midfield is maybe the best place he can play as part of this team. I wouldnt like to see him play alongside either Barry or De Jong just yet. He seems to be a bit of a pussy at times. He pulls out of tackles and that just pisses me off for the size of the man he needs to man up and put his foot in and put himself about a bit more. Also he could do with loosing a bit of weight. Next season I would hope to see a slimline Yaya who would be more up to playing in England.

These English media type comments always leaves me cracking on the floor. You mean get stuck in like Ramsey did, and lost a year and a half of football for it. Or like Micah did and lost 3 weeks. These gladiator acts that gain you so little (at best possession for a few seconds, but more likely- a foul against you, perhaps a caution for aggressiveness, a throw in to the other team, a dismisal for rough play o at worst an injury/longterm). This is the quality most cherished by fans?
I mean fans often don't think these things through, so it is understandable, but to have coaches, ex-players and commentators who parrot that idiocy is saddening.

Not only does it take away from the game, when we lose a player like Ramsey for over a years, it is often equally pointless considering the risk reward matrix of this decisions. Very little reward, very high risk. It is just not a smart proposition, not short term or long term. But Prem fans swear by it. They clap to high heavens when they see it. Even though more often than not is changes nothing at all.

Tevez runs five miles to come put a ball into throwing. He gets a standing ovation for his "stuck in" effort. Only for him to get up, walk back to his position up front a little more tired than he needed to be. The other team is still in possession with a throw in. They quickly throw the ball in and are back exactly where they were before Tevez chased 5 miles to poke it into throw in. The only thing lost is a few seconds, and Tevez is a little more tired than he should be at this point. A few minutes later Tevez's form on a shot looks bad. The shot misses the target badly and you wonder if it'd coz of the mental fatigue from expending so much energy giving up a throw in earlier :(

The irrationality of get "stuck in" :?

great post mate. you are quikly becomed my favourite poster here.

 

[CaptainCarlos]

this season he's the most frustrating player in our squad.

he's either absolutely shite or he's top class.you just don't know which yaya toure will roll up on matchdays.

the way he normally starts the game, is the way he always finishes it.

Normally in the space of 90 minutes.

What amazes me is how he still seems pretty unfit. He did a run down the left yesterday in the second half and then was bent over for 30 seconds recovering (think he got a bit of a rest whilst someone strolled over to take the corner Yaya had won).........refreshing though it was to see him using his strength, someone the size of Yaya should be physically imposing himself in midfield every game, not a couple of sporadic bursts forward when the mood takes him

And to whoever said look to the Fulham/West Ham away games to see how good he is - sorry, those games were over 4 months ago and he's not done a great deal to get excited about since

You do know that the body adapts to its surroundings?? And especially as a pro athlete, its gonna take him at least a season before his body normalizes the pace of the league. Which means he wont be as tired as he gets when he takes his runs.

He is fit, cuz if he wasnt he wouldnt be able to play 90 mins every 3 days!!

Being fit doesnt mean that your body is accustomed to bursting runs every 3 days.

And for your info, him and Barry are the players who have played almost every single game this season!

 

[Dax777]

They mean enthusiasm and desire Dax - Not a difficult concept to understand.

Yaya doesn't display enough of either.

You only have to look at the other lot to see that while many of the squad only possess average ability they more than make up for it with their will to win.

It depends on how you define it desire doesn't it? I think a man who runs with the ball for 50 yards holding of grabbers and tacklers is showing a lot of enthusiasm and desire. A man who runs till he is physically sick and has to bowl over, is showing some enthusiasm and desire. A man who argues with the ref on every call against his team. Not just against him. Be it Teves, Silva, Micah Komps. Yaya is quick to get there spreading his wingspan complaining about the refs call... I think that shows desire and enthusiasm, a man who whines at his teammates when they fail to give him the ball, can be said to be showing enthusiasm and desire.

However the reason why most don't see all that, is because, well they have a BIAS :)

By the way, those teams with average ability but more desire, would those be the very same ones that lay comfortably behind us on the league table?
You know those teams with desire that only guarantees 1 win every 6 games? Sorry, tell them to keep their version of desire. I'd take Yaya and 3rd place any day. Everton can come and win one every year, so long as they sit comfortably behind us.... With Desire no less :)

 

[FantasyIreland]

Dax,what are you waffling on about? i think you're beginning to believe your own hype....

No essays needed - For much of the game,Yaya doesn't look particularly arsed.

And in case it wasn't obvious in my other post,i was referring to the mob from Stretford and not clubs that suit your agenda.

Happy to agree to disagree on this 'topic' - my eyes do not deceive me.

 

[tommy437]

At this moment Yaya playing the more advanced role in midfield is maybe the best place he can play as part of this team. I wouldnt like to see him play alongside either Barry or De Jong just yet. He seems to be a bit of a pussy at times. He pulls out of tackles and that just pisses me off for the size of the man he needs to man up and put his foot in and put himself about a bit more. Also he could do with loosing a bit of weight. Next season I would hope to see a slimline Yaya who would be more up to playing in England.

These English media type comments always leaves me cracking on the floor. You mean get stuck in like Ramsey did, and lost a year and a half of football for it. Or like Micah did and lost 3 weeks. These gladiator acts that gain you so little (at best possession for a few seconds, but more likely- a foul against you, perhaps a caution for aggressiveness, a throw in to the other team, a dismisal for rough play o at worst an injury/longterm). This is the quality most cherished by fans?
I mean fans often don't think these things through, so it is understandable, but to have coaches, ex-players and commentators who parrot that idiocy is saddening.

Not only does it take away from the game, when we lose a player like Ramsey for over a years, it is often equally pointless considering the risk reward matrix of this decisions. Very little reward, very high risk. It is just not a smart proposition, not short term or long term. But Prem fans swear by it. They clap to high heavens when they see it. Even though more often than not is changes nothing at all.

Tevez runs five miles to come put a ball into throwing. He gets a standing ovation for his "stuck in" effort. Only for him to get up, walk back to his position up front a little more tired than he needed to be. The other team is still in possession with a throw in. They quickly throw the ball in and are back exactly where they were before Tevez chased 5 miles to poke it into throw in. The only thing lost is a few seconds, and Tevez is a little more tired than he should be at this point. A few minutes later Tevez's form on a shot looks bad. The shot misses the target badly and you wonder if it'd coz of the mental fatigue from expending so much energy giving up a throw in earlier :(

The irrationality of get "stuck in" :?

But if its not only him doing and the whole team then you are forcing their team more deep and are not in the same posistion as they was before he won the throwing. It allows us to push out and get back into shape. It also adds morale to the team as seeing a striker putting all that effort in makes other players want to do the same.

 

[sweep]

Dax,what are you waffling on about? i think you're beginning to believe your own hype....

No essays needed - For much of the game,Yaya doesn't look particularly arsed.

And in case it wasn't obvious in my other post,i was referring to the mob from Stretford and not clubs that suit your agenda.

Happy to agree to disagree on this 'topic' - my eyes do not deceive me.

He makes a fair point, the English football mindset places too much emphasis on players wasting energy chasing lost causes, players who choose leave the lost causes and save their energy for more productive thing are often accused of 'not looking interested', Yaya and Balotelli are prime examples.