Yorkshire Cricket Club

[Stiff Little Wingers]

It’s not though is it. He was viciously bullied for a decade on a regular basis, turning him into a shell of a man. A couple of Tweets aren’t on par with what Ballance has done. It’s worth remembering he asked the bullies to stop many times first and then went to YCCC to make it stop. He hasn’t done this to get fame or the spotlight, he’s a broken

It seems you were right Octavian to pause before sanctifying Rafiq. Undoubtedly he has been extremely brave but he also has to accept his racist language and one hopes the devastating effects he has faced serves to show him words do matter.

As to those gleefully seeking to exonerate Yorkshire and the ECB, you clearly don't understand what institutional and systemic racism mean. Best look it up.

Young lads do say and do stupid things at a young age and therefore Robinson should have not faced the penalty he did but some ongoing education on the power of words and the fact that usually if you say racist things then quite often it's the case you are thinking them - the same applied to Azeem as well.

We all do daft things when young but an important factor at YCCC is how the senior players not only let the culture develop but at time with r joined in or by not condemning it - end up condoning it. People like Vaughan and Root etc. It's up to parents to correct their children and that's why I have some sympathy with Brooks who it appears just joined in but presumably wouldn't have in senior players had said this is not on.
So we know YCC is institutionally racist and we know the ECB is hardly fit for purpose, we know Rafiq has been through a hellish experience and still is, we know he has blemished his copy book but what about the England dressing room? If the "Kevin" story is true then the England dressing room (or at last a good part of it) are playing cricket against teams entirely composed of brown and black people who they refer to as Kevin and think are obviously inferior. That in itself is a scandal given there are experienced and mature men in there...albeit with a strong Yorkshire influence.

It's not too long ago Buttler (who I love as a player) was taking the piss out of the Indian culture. Did he think Kohli and his team were Kevins?

 

[mr t]

You genuinely think those couple of messages from 10 years ago make him a racist?

Only a racist would tweet content that is hostile or prejudiced against Jewish people - end of…….

 

[Postman Pep]

If YCCC had displayed similar levels of ownership throughout this shitshow I doubt there would be a thread on the matter. Barely anybody would know the name Azeem Rafiq let alone be privy to him and his mates using anti-Semitic tropes in a Twitter exchange 10 years ago.

 

[Metal Biker]

It has been widely criticised though.

As it should be And i'm not denying that others haven't. However the issue with my current respondee is that i'm incorrect for this criticism of him that I hold in that he should have mentioned it earlier rather than have others point it out that he has been guilty of such behaviour. That apparently I "don't really believe it".

Not sure how many times I need to state it before it's accepted that I do believe what I've stated. I'm hazarding a guess at... 4.

 

[Metal Biker]

Again you've invented a straw man.

Nowhere did I say he shouldn't be criticised. Criticise away. I myself have condemned it as racist and euated him to a gang member turning evidence. Criticism is more than fair.

The idea he should have remembered that he believed antisemitic stereotypes when he was 19 and then publicly disclosed them before reporting anyone else is what I've taken issue with. Or did you forget that's what you said he should have done?

1.

My view is that i'm critical that he's made no mention of it before now on a topic that would warrant it's inclusion in the discussion, until forcibly prompted to confront it. You disagree, fine, but don't say that I don't believe differently just because you don't agree with it.

 

[domalino]

As it should be And i'm not denying that others haven't. However the issue with my current respondee is that i'm incorrect for this criticism of him that I hold. That I "don't really believe it".

Not sure how many times I need to state it before it's accepted that I do believe what I've stated. I'm hazarding a guess at... 4.

Again, no one has said you're incorrect for criticising him.

I've said the position that every whistleblower must scour their entire life and identify any prejudices they might have held 20+ years ago and then publicly announce them before whistleblowing is such a stupid and unreasonable opinion I don't believe it's genuine.

Maybe I'm just overestimating you.

 

[blueinsa]

If YCCC had displayed similar levels of ownership throughout this shitshow I doubt there would be a thread on the matter. Barely anybody would know the name Azeem Rafiq let alone be privy to him and his mates using anti-Semitic tropes in a Twitter exchange 10 years ago.

This shouldn’t be forgotten in what is now the usual murky waters of an online battle.

YCCC and the ECB have fucked up completely by trying to hide what went on and ignore an obvious problem.

 

[Metal Biker]

Again, no one has said you're incorrect for criticising him.

I've said the position that every whistleblower must scour their entire life and identify any prejudices they might have held and then publicly announce them before whistleblowing is such a stupid and unreasonable opinion I don't believe it's genuine.

You appear to be. You are stating I am wrong for this specifically; criticising him for not mentioning that he too has been guilty of such behaviour, and that his "apology" for his previous behaviour has only come after others have exposed those actions.

Nobody forgets that they were also once an anti-semitic POS, especially in a discussion about racist behaviour. "Whisleblower" or not, isn't it fair to now criticise him for once having these opinions and seemingly not publicly address it before now in an effort to confront his behaviour and make amends?

 

[worsleyweb]

It has been widely criticised. I haven’t really seen anyone defending his comments.

A couple of prominent Jewish spokespeople seem willing to accept his apology though, which I think is a positive development:

Claudia Mendoza, co-chief executive of the Jewish Leadership Council, said Rafiq had "undoubtedly" learned a lot since 2011.

"There's no doubt that this is massively awkward for Azeem Rafiq," Mendoza wrote on Twitter.

"But he's taken full ownership, apologised, and undoubtedly - through his own experiences - learnt a lot about racism since then."

Marie van der Zyl, president of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, said: "Azeem Rafiq has suffered terribly at the hands of racists in cricket so he will well understand the hurt this exchange will cause to Jews who have supported him.

"His apology certainly seems heartfelt and we have no reason to believe he is not completely sincere."

so same has to apply to Vaughan?

 

[domalino]

so same has to apply to Vaughan?

I think Vaughan would actually have to admit to doing what he's accused of before someone can forgive him for an apology that he's not given yet.