Referees/Officials

[crazyg]

Excellent point but technically I don't think it's that difficult.
Assuming one frame every 1/25th of a second, the frame daylight between foot and ball can be detected and from the speed of pass the frame the foot made contact with the ball can be back calculated. Basically, the faster the pass the more recently contact with the ball was made, so the frame were contact was made can be back calculated. At which point it becomes relatively straightforward know the frame where offside can be calculated for video purposes.
Whether they can be bothered to work out the physics/applied maths behind kicking a football to get an accurate frame calculation is probably the issue.
I would suspect it will lead to Linesmen not raising their flags unless a player is offside by a couple of yards.

Unless you play Tottingham at WHL, when you don't raise your flag at all.

 

[The Pink Panther]

I would suspect it will lead to Linesmen not raising their flags unless a player is offside by a couple of yards.

And that would lead to disaster

Player is offside but the linesman bottles it.
Ball is semi cleared and in the second phase of play a chance is created and the ball goes out for a corner
Goal is scored from the corner


So how far back is the video ref allowed to go?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

So how far back is the video ref allowed to go?

I think this is one of the key points that needs clearing up. A marginal offiside on the halfway line leading to a couple of clearances and a piledriver of a goal - do they go back that far?

Then we can move onto whether anyone competent, fair and consistent is assigned as video ref, and whether all angles are provided quickly enough. I have my doubts on that, as there is no evidence that refs are consistent, or that postmatch citing is consistent, so why would video refs be any better?

 

[blueinsa]

And we all remember this one. Not how Taylor starts to run towards the incident bringing his whistle to his lips and then changes his mind


Here is the Gundog penalty from the same game

I've just kicked a cat!

Clearest evidence you will ever see of cheating from a ref.

 

[mat]

Oliver reffing our match at Leicester is part of bt sport doc on now.

 

[mat]

One ref can call a pen for diliberate handball in the 93rd min but another one can't.....

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

As said previously in this thread, video refs just adds in extra layers of subjectivity. It really isn't the answer.

The "problem" is the piss poor standard of refereeing. The rabid inconsistency. The total lack of accountability.

The answers to that are to employ better refs and make them accountable. PGMOL boss said that refs shouldn't be interviewed after a game until they've seen footage and been able to collect their thoughts. Bollocks. They should just explain what they saw and why they gave a decision.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

As said previously in this thread, video refs just adds in extra layers of subjectivity. It really isn't the answer.

The "problem" is the piss poor standard of refereeing. The rabid inconsistency. The total lack of accountability.

The answers to that are to employ better refs and make them accountable. PGMOL boss said that refs shouldn't be interviewed after a game until they've seen footage and been able to collect their thoughts. Bollocks. They should just explain what they saw and why they gave a decision.

Referee's should be made to submit their match reports in triplicate before seeing any TV replay's or discussing the game with anyone else including the other officials. One copy of the report should go to the FA and one copy to each team. This should put a stop to the sneaky b**tards changing their reports to suit Scudamore's agenda.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Excellent point but technically I don't think it's that difficult.
Assuming one frame every 1/25th of a second, the frame daylight between foot and ball can be detected and from the speed of pass the frame the foot made contact with the ball can be back calculated. Basically, the faster the pass the more recently contact with the ball was made, so the frame were contact was made can be back calculated. At which point it becomes relatively straightforward know the frame where offside can be calculated for video purposes.
Whether they can be bothered to work out the physics/applied maths behind kicking a football to get an accurate frame calculation is probably the issue.
I would suspect it will lead to Linesmen not raising their flags unless a player is offside by a couple of yards.

It generally has to be a bit more than that when City are down The Lane before Haringey are ruled offside.

 

[blueinsa]

As said previously in this thread, video refs just adds in extra layers of subjectivity. It really isn't the answer.

The "problem" is the piss poor standard of refereeing. The rabid inconsistency. The total lack of accountability.

The answers to that are to employ better refs and make them accountable. PGMOL boss said that refs shouldn't be interviewed after a game until they've seen footage and been able to collect their thoughts. Bollocks. They should just explain what they saw and why they gave a decision.

Agree entirely about the standards and lack of accountability but disagree on the video ref because it has worked in every other sport.

It has to be done like rugby. Mic the ref up, mic the video ref up and allow the crowd and tv audience to hear the conversations and 99.9% of the time, like rugby the correct decision will be given.

They will kick and scream about being mic'd up as that is their get out and way to still cheat but fuck em. They are professional refs being paid to deliver a professional performance and they will do as they are told or they can fuck off.

 

[Chris in London]

Agree entirely about the standards and lack of accountability but disagree on the video ref because it has worked in every other sport.

It has to be done like rugby. Mic the ref up, mic the video ref up and allow the crowd and tv audience to hear the conversations and 99.9% of the time, like rugby the correct decision will be given.

They will kick and scream about being mic'd up as that is their get out and way to still cheat but fuck em. They are professional refs being paid to deliver a professional performance and they will do as they are told or they can fuck off.

In other sports TV replays are usually an adjunct of technology, and we know that for instance ball tracking technology in cricket and tennis is good enough to get it right 99% of the time. However these tend to be black and white decisions - either the ball would have gone on to hit the stumps or it wouldn't - whereas in football, as in Rugby, many acts that take place are fouls that justify the award of a free kick or penalty only if in the opinion of the referee some subjective element is present. So in Rugby a scrum that just collapses leads to the scrum being reset, but a scrum that is deliberately collapsed is a penalty to the opposition. Likewise handball in football is only an offence if done deliberately.

Perhaps unsurprisingly such decisions tend not to get reviewed in Rugby. The decisions that get reviewed are game changers - e.g. 'There was a possible forward pass in the lead up to that try', or 'was the ball under the control of the player and grounded properly for a try to be awarded'. The real problem Rugby has is that sometimes you can spend a very long time reviewing a decision and still not end up with a clear answer. And of course the more important the occasion the more likely it is that the TV ref will want to get it right. I remember for instance an England try being disallowed by millimetres after and age of replays in the final of the 2007 World Cup.

That said, the advantage Rugby has is that for every excruciating 'cameras don't really make it clear either way' moment in the final of a major tournament there are dozens and dozens of decisions where TV replays enable the ref to get it right with no arguments. I'm not sure how TV reviews would work in practice in football but the opportunity of reducing either incompetence or corruption is in my view well worth the uncertainty.

 

[Sheikh Rattle n Roll]

I've just kicked a cat!

Clearest evidence you will ever see of cheating from a ref.

Just look at the reaction of Courtois in the goal for the foul by Luiz, he stops playing for a second as he clearly knows it's a foul, so does Taylor, who doesn't bottle it, he thinks fuck, can't have City having any sort of advantage, if I give the foul, I have to send off Luiz.

 

[ancoats]

the video referee will be under orders just like the ref of the game

they can make a video replay look so different with speed,slow motion,angle, and that's why the person editing the clips will have somebody in his ear saying show that clip or this clip it will be skysports run and we all know what happens there they say video killed the radio star well skysports killed football in england

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

the video referee will be under orders just like the ref of the game

they can make a video replay look so different with speed,slow motion,angle, and that's why the person editing the clips will have somebody in his ear saying show that clip or this clip it will be skysports run and we all know what happens there they say video killed the radio star well skysports killed football in england

 

[ancoats]

why have you been using my family videos again

 

[BlueAnorak]

Referee's should be made to submit their match reports in triplicate before seeing any TV replay's or discussing the game with anyone else including the other officials. One copy of the report should go to the FA and one copy to each team. This should put a stop to the sneaky b**tards changing their reports to suit Scudamore's agenda.

Agree with this 100%.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

I don't think video replays will give unerringly correct answers to every question referred, but for me that is not the issue. There are many of us on here who believe that we are not the victims of mistakes by the referee but of cheating. Referees quite simply refuse to give key decisions in our favour. Video would stop this if it were not initiated by the referee, but by a genuinely impartial official and if all communication was public as in rugby.

How many remember the RU World Cup final of 2007, and the try we thought we had scored, but which was not awarded after the video replays were inconclusive. Even now opinion is divided on whether it was a try or not but the scrutiny of the videos left no-one in any doubt - the referee was seen by all to be making a genuine and painstaking effort to reach an objective and fair decision. Referees in rugby enjoy far greater respect than their counterparts in football.

 

[Wretched Vengeance]

Mike Dean once again poor this evening.

How many fouls on Silva went unpunished. At one point Pedro goes though Silva and Dean gives the free-kick to Chelsea.

Costa with a bit of a naughty challenge on Kompany and Kante getting away with a few fouls that deserved a booking first half.

And that shove by Luiz first half on Aguero went Chelsea's way, when it should have resulted in a City free-kick in a dangerous area.

Obviously no problem with the penalty, though.

 

[aguero93:20]

Mike Dean once again poor this evening.

How many fouls on Silva went unpunished. At one point Pedro goes though Silva and Dean gives the free-kick to Chelsea.

Costa with a bit of a naughty challenge on Kompany and Kante getting away with a few fouls that deserved a booking first half.

And that shove by Luiz first half on Aguero went Chelsea's way, when it should have resulted in a City free-kick in a dangerous area.

Obviously no problem with the penalty, though.

He should be put in front of a camera and made to explain why he gave that foul against Silva (Silva fully in control of the ball, Pedro illegally challenged from behind) and why he allowed Costa to stamp on Vinny's knee in full view with no attempt whatsoever to win the ball without issuing the mandatory red card.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

Mike Dean once again poor this evening.

How many fouls on Silva went unpunished. At one point Pedro goes though Silva and Dean gives the free-kick to Chelsea.

Costa with a bit of a naughty challenge on Kompany and Kante getting away with a few fouls that deserved a booking first half.

And that shove by Luiz first half on Aguero went Chelsea's way, when it should have resulted in a City free-kick in a dangerous area.

Obviously no problem with the penalty, though.

yep Dean is a ****