It's Quiet - a new dawn

[Dax777]

Yep, I've said this before. Too many people in here looking at it as 1-for-1 swaps amongst our front three instead of varied rotation in the entire squad. Pep plays a lot of attacking players in a lot of different positions. Normally, in his first year, he is less daring but due to injuries etc he's been forced to even do this with Navas and Fernandinho, among others.

Sanchez has the flexibility to play in any position in the front three or to play deeper ala Silva/KDB, which would be absolutely invaluable. So too Mbappe also has experience playing both centrally and wide this season and previous. Having players like that who can shift from one position to another and still provide the threat we require, and have lacked at many times this season, affords Pep the ability to rotate and field a strong side even if there are three games in a week and even switch mid-game as necessary.

I feel, however, those who are against the idea are primarily so because of Kun, rather than fear that players will get upset at Pep's rotation.

In fairness, I'm not at all against it because of Kun. Matter of fact I am not against it at all, but realistically speaking a few player will get shafted and will request a move by next summer.

While its true these player give pep flexibility, in the end, barring injury he'll begin to favor at least 8-9 starters. And those guys will get priority in big games or key games. They'll also get their preferred positions. Once that happens, and it will, those left out will begin to agitate for a move.

In Attack, all 5 will want and need to play every big game. Sure you can drop 1 of the 5 every now and then. Which is what I think he'll do if they were all here, start 4 and bench 1. This also means he has to consistently bench 1 or 2 of Silva, Debryune and Gundogan. If Dihno, Delph and Garcia are still here, you can expect their game time barring injuries to be none existent. Perhaps during some 4 game run when the team shows some lethargy. You bring on Delph and Dihno. Bit by and large you can expect minimal starts from either and Garcia.

Anyway you look at it, Barring long term injury, there will be issues.

This doesn't even give consideration to the supposed DM most believe we need or the extra CM (say Isco) that many, myself included, really want.

I've thought about it and it only works if we play a 343 system.

So
Ederson
Laporte
Mbappe
Sanchez

There will be an uproar coz we'd have ignored fullbacks again:

However you bring back Maffeo and. Zichenko as backup fullbacks/Wingbacks. So if we want a traditional 4 we can slot them in. Or even redeploy Dihno and Delph there.

Its unconventional and would have lots of our "stuck in their ways" fans tearing their hair out. But in the end it will help us accommodate the talent we have accumulated on the front line.

This though means that we skip DM, LB, RB and extra CM as we wouldn't have the space for them.

 

[domalino]

In fairness, I'm not at all against it because of Kun. Matter of fact I am not against it at all, but realistically speaking a few player will get shafted and will request a move by next summer.

While its true these player give pep flexibility, in the end, barring injury he'll begin to favor at least 8-9 starters. And those guys will get priority in big games or key games. They'll also get their preferred positions. Once that happens, and it will, those left out will begin to agitate for a move.

In Attack, all 5 will want and need to play every big game. Sure you can drop 1 of the 5 every now and then. Which is what I think he'll do if they were all here, start 4 and bench 1. This also means he has to consistently bench 1 or 2 of Silva, Debryune and Gundogan. If Dihno, Delph and Garcia are still here, you can expect their game time barring injuries to be none existent. Perhaps during some 4 game run when the team shows some lethargy. You bring on Delph and Dihno. Bit by and large you can expect minimal starts from either and Garcia.

Anyway you look at it, Barring long term injury, there will be issues.

This doesn't even give consideration to the supposed DM most believe we need or the extra CM (say Isco) that many, myself included, really want.

I've thought about it and it only works if we play a 343 system.

So
Ederson
Laporte
Mbappe
Sanchez

There will be an uproar coz we'd have ignored fullbacks again:

However you bring back Maffeo and. Zichenko as backup fullbacks/Wingbacks. So if we want a traditional 4 we can slot them in. Or even redeploy Dihno and Delph there.

Its unconventional and would have lots of our "stuck in their ways" fans tearing their hair out. But in the end it will help us accommodate the talent we have accumulated on the front line.

This though means that we skip DM, LB, RB and extra CM as we wouldn't have the space for them.

Gundogan won't agitate as it will be his first season back from the injury (if he even stays fit), he will accept it as he plays his way back into form and fitness starting in October anyway.

He might start being fidgety about 18/19, but at that point Silva will be 32, heading towards 33 and Gundogan at 28 will assume he can get ahead of the old guy.

Fernandinho is versatile enough to get games, and at 32 knows he's not going anywhere better than here, so he won't mind.

Aleix will either play a lot, or go on loan IMO.

I don't predict any problems with keeping the midfielders happy.

It's the 5 attackers who we would need to worry about, but I think it can be managed if done smartly and if a formation that plays 4 of them at once can be worked out half a dozen times.


Pep will find a pivot this summer, the current options are simply not good enough and it's, as the name suggests, the most important position in the team. A good pivot speeding up our game would have made a massive difference this year. Isco would be a lovely bonus, which I'm sure Pep will work on because he's exactly the kind of game changer we need.

 

[blueparrot]

In fairness, I'm not at all against it because of Kun. Matter of fact I am not against it at all, but realistically speaking a few player will get shafted and will request a move by next summer.

While its true these player give pep flexibility, in the end, barring injury he'll begin to favor at least 8-9 starters. And those guys will get priority in big games or key games. They'll also get their preferred positions. Once that happens, and it will, those left out will begin to agitate for a move.

In Attack, all 5 will want and need to play every big game. Sure you can drop 1 of the 5 every now and then. Which is what I think he'll do if they were all here, start 4 and bench 1. This also means he has to consistently bench 1 or 2 of Silva, Debryune and Gundogan. If Dihno, Delph and Garcia are still here, you can expect their game time barring injuries to be none existent. Perhaps during some 4 game run when the team shows some lethargy. You bring on Delph and Dihno. Bit by and large you can expect minimal starts from either and Garcia.

Anyway you look at it, Barring long term injury, there will be issues.

This doesn't even give consideration to the supposed DM most believe we need or the extra CM (say Isco) that many, myself included, really want.

I've thought about it and it only works if we play a 343 system.

So
Ederson
Laporte
Mbappe
Sanchez

There will be an uproar coz we'd have ignored fullbacks again:

However you bring back Maffeo and. Zichenko as backup fullbacks/Wingbacks. So if we want a traditional 4 we can slot them in. Or even redeploy Dihno and Delph there.

Its unconventional and would have lots of our "stuck in their ways" fans tearing their hair out. But in the end it will help us accommodate the talent we have accumulated on the front line.

This though means that we skip DM, LB, RB and extra CM as we wouldn't have the space for them.

I just can't see us playing 3 at the back regularly next season, especially as Tolmie right at the start of this thread seems to think fullbacks are already agreed. I still think we'll start the season with 4 main attackers plus Roberts. I'd expect Mbappe as the 4th attacker and Sanchez only as replacement if Aguero goes.

 

[domalino]

It's not fkn 5 into 3 it is 7 into 5 ffs
This discussion is being repeated again and again. Silva and KDB positions need factoring in. Sanchez can and does drop deeper to play the creative role, as has Gabriel. This gives us real options and depth across the front 5 positions. 1 injury in that front 5 and it begins to look a bit thin but Gundogan steps up as well.

It's not 7 into 5. There's absolutely no way you can rationalise it that way.

Firstly, there's no way Sanchez is suitable for the midfield role Silva or KDB curently play, nor Gabriel Jesus. I don't know if you've been watching, but they're not #10's, where those players could get away with playing, they're proper midfielders now. Alexis Sanchez is not going to do what David Silva does for us right now.

Secondly, even if you (wrongly) thought those positions were interchangable, it's at least 8 into 5 with Gundogan, unless you actually think a midfield 3 of Gundogan, Jesus and Sanchez could work (it wouldn't).


If you're trying to argue against the "5 into 3" concerns the only way to do it is by pointing towards the posibility of more interesting formations next year.

 

[Dax777]

Gundogan won't agitate as it will be his first season back from the injury (if he even stays fit), he will accept it as he plays his way back into form and fitness starting in October anyway.

He might start being fidgety about 18/19, but at that point Silva will be 32, heading towards 33 and Gundogan at 28 will assume he can get ahead of the old guy.

Fernandinho is versatile enough to get games, and at 32 knows he's not going anywhere better than here, so he won't mind.

Aleix will either play a lot, or go on loan IMO.

I don't predict any problems with keeping the midfielders happy.

It's the 5 attackers who we would need to worry about, but I think it can be managed if done smartly and if a formation that plays 4 of them at once can be worked out half a dozen times.


Pep will find a pivot this summer, the current options are simply not good enough and it's, as the name suggests, the most important position in the team. A good pivot speeding up our game would have made a massive difference this year. Isco would be a lovely bonus, which I'm sure Pep will work on because he's exactly the kind of game changer we need.

2 things.

Can you envision a system that starts 4 of them and also starts a new pivot? Say we go get Marcos Llorente (best young pivot in my opinion) and he is installed as starter or Perhaps even Garcia.
So four at the back
So DM sorted. (Llorente or Garcia)
2 wingers (Sterling Sane Sanchez, Mbappe, or GJ)
2 fwds (Sanchez, GJ or Mbappe)

That leaves 1 spot for Silva, or Debryune. Even if we accept Gundogan will take his time getting back to shape. And may be okay with a backup role.

On those projections, is have to assume Silva too has to become okay with a backup role as he moves into his 30s.

So in a regular formation likelihood is:
Ederson
RB Stones Laporte LB
............Llorente
Sanchez...GJ... Debryune ..Sane
..............Mbappe

Something like that with Sterling rotating with others in the front 4 and Siva with Debryune.

Its probably doable. But looks tough.

 

[Akiva]

Firstly, there's no way Sanchez is suitable for the midfield role Silva or KDB curently play,

Sanchez has already played AMC, in a similar role to Silva/KDB, this season alone and did so under Guardiola at Barca too.

I don't know if you've been watching, but they're not #10's, where those players could get away with playing, they're proper midfielders now.

Pep doesn't really play any true number 10s, ala Mezut Ozil, and doesn't define positional roles in a traditional way at all.

Secondly, even if you (wrongly) thought those positions were interchangable,

I mean, Pep has played with 10 midfielders before, so I'm not sure how you reckon someone with the passing, vision and movement of Alexis Sanchez couldn't work at AMC, where he's played before.

it's at least 8 into 5 with Gundogan, unless you actually think a midfield 3 of Gundogan, Jesus and Sanchez could work (it wouldn't).

If you're trying to argue against the "5 into 3" concerns the only way to do it is by pointing towards the posibility of more interesting formations next year.

Gundogan would realistically play deeper again, at say MC or as a DM. Then again, Pep has played him in AMC earlier in the year which wasn't his natural position, so who knows?

My point is, Pep knows what he's doing and if he really wants both Mbappe and Sanchez, it's not so that they (or one of Sane-Jesus-Sterling) can spend any long, unjustified time warming the bench.

 

[Dax777]

I just can't see us playing 3 at the back regularly next season, especially as Tolmie right at the start of this thread seems to think fullbacks are already agreed. I still think we'll start the season with 4 main attackers plus Roberts. I'd expect Mbappe as the 4th attacker and Sanchez only as replacement if Aguero goes.

Wait your number isn't adding up. We have 4 now, add Mbappe and its 5. If Aguero goes and you add Sanchez, that's still 5 plus Roberts who would get zero games in that situation.

 

[domalino]

2 things.

Can you envision a system that starts 4 of them and also starts a new pivot? Say we go get Marcos Llorente (best young pivot in my opinion) and he is installed as starter or Perhaps even Garcia.
So four at the back
So DM sorted. (Llorente or Garcia)
2 wingers (Sterling Sane Sanchez, Mbappe, or GJ)
2 fwds (Sanchez, GJ or Mbappe)

That leaves 1 spot for Silva, or Debryune. Even if we accept Gundogan will take his time getting back to shape. And may be okay with a backup role.

On those projections, is have to assume Silva too has to become okay with a backup role as he moves into his 30s.

So in a regular formation likelihood is:
Ederson
RB Stones Laporte LB
............Llorente
Sanchez...GJ... Debryune ..Sane
..............Mbappe

Something like that with Sterling rotating with others in the front 4 and Siva with Debryune.

Its probably doable. But looks tough.

I could envision us playing a 424 or 343 with 4 of the 5 forwards playing at one time in certain games.

Pep is like a kid with lego, if we give him enough versatile pieces he'll find a way to make it work. Some of his Bayern line-ups are ridiculous, just look at this one from last year -

He doesn't need to do it a lot, just enough to turn 5 players getting 35 starts each into 40 starts each.

This page is great for looking at the ways in which he managed to fit all his midfielders into the pitch enough to keep them happy - http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/baye...y=&heim_gast=&punkte=&datum_von=-&datum_bis=-

 

[Jazzman]

On a side note I just read on transfermarkt.de that Enes Ünal said he would not get a work permit for England next season, so presumably he will be let out another year. Based on this he will not be a factor in next seasons squad planning.

 

[Hart of the Matter]

Sanchez has already played AMC, in a similar role to Silva/KDB, this season alone and did so under Guardiola at Barca too.



Pep doesn't really play any true number 10s, ala Mezut Ozil, and doesn't define positional roles in a traditional way at all.



I mean, Pep has played with 10 midfielders before, so I'm not sure how you reckon someone with the passing, vision and movement of Alexis Sanchez couldn't work at AMC, where he's played before.



Gundogan would realistically play deeper again, at say MC or as a DM. Then again, Pep has played him in AMC earlier in the year which wasn't his natural position, so who knows?

My point is, Pep knows what he's doing and if he really wants both Mbappe and Sanchez, it's not so that they (or one of Sane-Jesus-Sterling) can spend any long, unjustified time warming the bench.

Agree totally with this (and only this)and your responses.

 

[Akiva]

Sportskeeda saying Barca want a new CB this summer and Laporte would be their first choice, but they can't afford him. Instead they would target Laporte's teammate Yeray Alvarez who would be available potentially for half as much.

I'd be surprised if Bilbao let both their CBs go in one window, but you'd have to imagine they'd be happier moving on Laporte given the income and not having to sell a Basque player to a divisional rival.

 

[Cityfan]

Not many will want to do that with the World Cup coming up.

I don't know if you are right or not, but from a logical point of view, getting decent game time but not playing every week is pretty ideal preparation for the World Cup. Far to many players from the top clubs go into it tired from playing too much football..

 

[BlueDeadHead]

Sportskeeda saying Barca want a new CB this summer and Laporte would be their first choice, but they can't afford him. Instead they would target Laporte's teammate Yeray Alvarez who would be available potentially for half as much.

I'd be surprised if Bilbao let both their CBs go in one window, but you'd have to imagine they'd be happier moving on Laporte given the income and not having to sell a Basque player to a divisional rival.

Typically they only sell if the team hits the buyout so they may not have much say if they both want to move on.

 

[cibaman]

I just can't see us playing 3 at the back regularly next season, especially as Tolmie right at the start of this thread seems to think fullbacks are already agreed. I still think we'll start the season with 4 main attackers plus Roberts. I'd expect Mbappe as the 4th attacker and Sanchez only as replacement if Aguero goes.

We might play 3 at the back more often than this season, but I would be astonished if we go into next season having to play it because we don't have any full backs.

 

[aguero93:20]

On a side note I just read on transfermarkt.de that Enes Ünal said he would not get a work permit for England next season, so presumably he will be let out another year. Based on this he will not be a factor in next seasons squad planning.

Yeah he's unlikely to get one for September 1st unless Turkey can jump a few places in the international rankings, however he should have a good shot at getting one for February 1st so hopefully we put a recall clause into his contract.

 

[Kompany is King]

Have we been linked with the midfielder Llorente? Who does he currently play for?

 

[Akiva]

Have we been linked with the midfielder Llorente? Who does he currently play for?

Marcos Llorente? He's with Real on loan to Alaves.

Haven't seen us linked, but would be a good signing. PSG were supposed to be in on him for €60m, but then the media links PSG to everyone.

 

[Andrew___K]

With all the fuss about forwards we sometimes forget that our midfield has more issues than all other lines. Pep's football is impossible without press-resistant mids, and we're currently having only 2 in Silva and Yaya. Basically 1 as Yaya is leaving. Or 0,75 if you consider Silva's age. What are we going to do? I don't believe in significant impact from youngsters (Foden, Diaz, Smith) in 2-3 year as they're only 16-17 yo.

Verratti's agent claimed several times after PSG crushing out from CL that his chances to stay are “complicated”. I wonder where does he go eventually and will we try to get him?

Heard a rumour about Barkley joining us which I find a risky but clever move, he has all to succeed as DM pivot.

But what are other planned additions? I supposed Lemar and B.Silva earlier but didn't read anything about our interest. And please, don't tell me that we're buying W.Carvalho :)

 

[aguero93:20]

With all the fuss about forwards we sometimes forget that our midfield has more issues than all other lines. Pep's football is impossible without press-resistant mids, and we're currently having only 2 in Silva and Yaya. Basically 1 as Yaya is leaving. Or 0,75 if you consider Silva's age. What are we going to do? I don't believe in significant impact from youngsters (Foden, Diaz, Smith) in 2-3 year as they're only 16-17 yo.

Verratti's agent claimed several times after PSG crushing out from CL that his chances to stay are “complicated”. I wonder where does he go eventually and will we try to get him?

Heard a rumour about Barkley joining us which I find as a risky but clever move, he has all to succeed as DM pivot.

But what are other planned additions? I supposed Lemar and B.Silva earlier but didn't read anything about our interest. And please, don't tell me that we're buying W.Carvalho :)

You've forgotten Gundogan. As for additions, I'd go all out for Isco this summer, far from convinced that he'll stay at Madrid.

 

[Andrew___K]

You've forgotten Gundogan. As for additions, I'd go all out for Isco this summer, far from convinced that he'll stay at Madrid.

I'm not convinced that Gundo will get to required level again after several injuries and two knee surgeries. ACL plastics in 50% of cases means considerable loss of pace/acceleration on which he relied heavily at his best. He's also had a kneecap dislocation, his joint will probably never be the same again, he'll be forced to use it with great cautiousness while playing. Of course, we have to take him into consideration and hope for the best, but it's impossible to rely on him fully. Basically the same situation as with Kompany.
Isco would be unbelievable, but I'm pessimistic about him, we've discussed it in his personal thread.