Var debate 2019/20

[cleavers]

What about an opponents ball hitting the net when you suspect it was a handball, or our shot hitting the net as a linesman's flag fallacious goes up?

If the flag goes up but the ball goes in, they will review it, they did it in one of the games this afternoon, united I think, even though the offside was very obvious (yards).

 

[lasereyes]

If the flag goes up but the ball goes in, they will review it, they did it in one of the games this afternoon, united I think, even though the offside was very obvious (yards).

I know, I was replying to the person who said I want to celebrate when our ball hits the back of the net.

 

[jimharri]

Re. the disallowed Wolves goal, that's a very harsh rule. No way did Boly know where the ball was. But, at least it now takes away the "was it intentional" arguments.

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

The crazy thing so far is that VAR hasn’t (apparently) got anything majorly wrong yet. Certainly not in a City match in the PL so I’m not sure why so many are quite so upset (especially in comparison with the cries of corruption in previous seasons and howls of anger when Liverpool and United voted against VAR being implemented last season).

What?

It’s completely subjective if it got either call right or wrong.

That means it isn’t fit for purpose yet.

I’m all for it but it was a mess on Sat

 

[BlueAnorak]

This has been so over complicated it’s pathetic.

VAR rules should be black & white and the freeze frame they use for all offsides should be transparent and predetermined by the FA (e.g. the first freeze frame when the ball has clearly left the passers foot will be the one we use to determine whether a player is offside or not). Be honest and transparent with football fans and tell them there is a small margin of error because of the 25/30 frames per second and everyone will be happy as long as it’s consistent and not just made up as we go along like yesterday.

The problem is inconsistency, nothing else. Inconsistency can lead to question marks over the validity of VAR decisions and also brings into question the integrity of the match day officials (on-field or in a van), a predetermined error of margin is acceptable.

They changed the rules 2 seasons ago such that offside is determined when the passer first touches the ball. Other than that I totally agree with you. When there is no gap that is when the decision point is. Sterling's goal shouldn't have been disallowed if they had done that. Silva had clearly touched the ball 4 frames or 4/25ths of a second before the offside decision point.

 

[cleavers]

What?

It’s completely subjective if it got either call right or wrong.

That means it isn’t fit for purpose yet.

I’m all for it but it was a mess on Sat

Are you actually reading the thread ?

Its been stated numerous times now, its not subjective, its being done by technology, not a human, @SWP's back said on his coverage it was explained how, not a luxury we've had here yet.

So as most of us don't know what this technology is, we don't know if it got either call right or wrong, but if they were trying to screw City over you can be sure it would have got the answer "no goal" twice, but it didn't.

We don't know if its "fit for purpose" or not, because they haven't shown us (here) how this technology is so accurate.

 

[cleavers]

Silva had clearly touched the ball 4 frames or 4/25ths of a second before the offside decision point.

If what @SWP's back has posted above, its not 25 frames per second its far above that, we don't know, because they haven't bothered to tell us here yet.

 

[BlueAnorak]

If what @SWP's back has posted above, its not 25 frames per second its far above that, we don't know, because they haven't bothered to tell us here yet.

HDTV on all UK TV channels is DVB-T2 + MPEG4 50Hz or 25 frames a second be it 1080p or 4320p (4k).
Germany although using DVB-T2 + MPEG4 operates using slight different parameters at 60Hz or 30 frames a second.
Transmission to the VAR decision office probably uses DVB-T2 - So each channel wont be any quicker than 25 frames a second.

 

[deano ou812]

Maybe bombard sky or BT through Twitter and email to do a special on VAR as in bringing the cameras into the headquarters were the VAR officials oversee each match ..

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

Are you actually reading the thread ?

Its been stated numerous times now, its not subjective, its being done by technology, not a human, @SWP's back said on his coverage it was explained how, not a luxury we've had here yet.

So as most of us don't know what this technology is, we don't know if it got either call right or wrong, but if they were trying to screw City over you can be sure it would have got the answer "no goal" twice, but it didn't.

We don't know if its "fit for purpose" or not, because they haven't shown us (here) how this technology is so accurate.

Have you watched Andy Gray’s piece on it? He proves quite easily that someone Working it is picking frames. So it isn’t done by technology, someone picks the frame to use the technology.

I’m not a happy clapper who cries when things don’t go our way. Heck I thought Llorente scoring was fair enough.

I’m 100% in the var camp.

But if they don’t have the rules clear on it then it’s junk.

You cannot pick one play where the ball is starting to touch the foot of the passer and then on the next play use the frame where it leaves the foot. That’s inconsistent and subjective. It’s one or the other, but it 100% cannot be whichever one suits.

 

[HypnoticBlue]

Don’t know if I missed it but didn’t notice any VAR checks on a couple of the rags goals today where Chelski wanted a foul prior to the goal.
Chelski looked bereft of any ideas in the 2nd half without Hazard, and did Rags win the league today?

CTID

 

[cleavers]

HDTV on all UK TV channels is DVB-2 50Hz or 25 frames a second be it 1080p or 4320p (4k).
Germany although using DVB-2 operates using slight different parameters at 60Hz or 30 frames a second.

Read his post, its not what was described.

 

[missing person]

Am I missing something here, I play computer games at 60fps and have been doing for around 2 years now. Why cant they use that?

 

[jollylescott]

They changed the rules 2 seasons ago such that offside is determined when the passer first touches the ball. Other than that I totally agree with you. When there is no gap that is when the decision point is. Sterling's goal shouldn't have been disallowed if they had done that. Silva had clearly touched the ball 4 frames or 4/25ths of a second before the offside decision point.

If the rule is as you state, then Sterling offside was 100% not offside for the Gabby tap in, and his lobbed goal was correctly awarded. I honestly thought they applied the frame when there was separation from the foot.

 

[cleavers]

Have you watched Andy Gray’s piece on it? He proves quite easily that someone in a van is picking frames. So it isn’t done by technology, someone picks the frame to use the technology.

As has been posted Andy Gray's piece is not accurate, he's basing his opinion on the pictures shown, but its not, its technology based and @SWP's back has posted an explanation of said technology, its there if you want to read it, this was also explained by Walton yesterday, but not no examples given, which PL managers and captains were shown in detail last week.

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

Tradition.

It's usually older people.

The more casual fan seems to be more favour of it. The more hardcore (home and away type) less so. Not saying thats same with everyone though!

 

[BlueAnorak]

If the rule is as you state, then Sterling offside was 100% not offside for the Gabby tap in, and his lobbed goal was correctly awarded. I honestly thought they applied the frame when there was separation from the foot.

Correct. As clearly vissible from Andy Grey's footage.

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

As has been posted Andy Gray's piece is not accurate, he's basing his opinion on the pictures shown, but its not, its technology based and @SWP's back has posted an explanation of said technology, its there if you want to read it, this was also explained by Walton yesterday, but not no examples given, which PL managers and captains were shown in detail last week.

We’re not privy to what’s been shown to the clubs.

Allison Rudd(I know) was very pro var on the guardian podcast and they were told it would only be used on clear and obvious errors. So it seems to me mixed messages are coming from inside that camp.

I also want to know how 2 incidents at United’s game did not get var checked. Not a peep about it from the commentary either. One was a marginal offside which was as close as sterling’s and the other was Zouma clutching his face in the box and united running down the field to score.

Nothing.

As I said this is not being used consistently.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

They showed it live.

For the first the result of it with the crosses and line to the floor.

For the second you actually saw it being drawn on the live footage (unless I’m going mental).

*they don’t show a 3D picture, that’s already in the computer. They show the TV picture. It’s why it doesn’t matter if a camera is 100% side on or not as it’s triangulated from whichever camera shows it clearest.

The FIFA vid I posted earlier in the thread shows how the tech works. The camera triangulated with goal posts

 

[lastmanback]

In any of the city goals, from any of the camera angles could anyone say for sure when the ball actually left the foot of the player who gave the assist,
Too much room for incorrect decisions if it comes down to millimetres. The offside rule will have to be changed again to accommodate var. Imo.