Var debate 2019/20

danielwood5 said:
I'm not too sure there, it looks like you can still see all of Mane's boot and the slight bit of contact is in the back of his shin. He may have had his foot stood on slightly but he then carried on before throwing himself over which is what my argument is, he could be should have carried on as he still had control of the ball but his first option is to go over unnecessarily. That was possibly a penalty and possibly a dive but VAR gives it as the player fell over, he didn't fall over because of the contact he fell over because he decided to, the same with Mahrez. That's where VAR isn't working, it's making sure that players have to go over to get a decision but if you play on, like Silva did then you won't get it. This disproportionately rewards teams who have made diving part of their playing style (like Liverpool have under your last two managers).
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I mean, we've had 4 penalties this season. The same number as Man City and Leicester. I don't really see how we are being disproportionately rewarded for diving?

United, on the other hand, have 9 already.
 
Copper said:
Why is it always a dive when it is a Liverpool player? It's pretty clear that Lovren was pushed. I'm finding that it's impossible to have rational debates in this thread, so I'm out, lol.
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On that one, I don't recall the goal.

It struck me that Lovren might have got a push while running towards an incoming corner, and then made a fair amount of it.
Fouls happen regularly at corners (again, there's the references to Oliver ignoring Lamela hanging on Rodri's neck), and I didn't think Lovren was that close to the ball, but it was given. It's a while ago now, and he may have been closer than I remember.

Consistency again.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
On that one, I don't recall the goal.

It struck me that Lovren might have got a push while running towards an incoming corner, and then made a fair amount of it.
Fouls happen regularly at corners (again, there's the references to Oliver ignoring Lamela hanging on Rodri's neck), and I didn't think Lovren was that close to the ball, but it was given. It's a while ago now, and he may have been closer than I remember.

Consistency again.
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You're right, it is inconsistent, but that applies to us as well. Matip was fouled during a corner against Newcastle and nothing was given. Salah has been put in a headlock more than once in the box, nothing. Here's an image of Firmino clearly being fouled in the box too, but nothing:

https://images.ladbible.com/thumbna...4599ce25a68f08dd2fb7.png&quality=70&width=720
 
Copper said:
I mean, we've had 4 penalties this season. The same number as Man City and Leicester. I don't really see how we are being disproportionately rewarded for diving?

United, on the other hand, have 9 already.
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PL trying to ensure they stay relevant - different case study .
 
Copper said:
I mean, we've had 4 penalties this season. The same number as Man City and Leicester. I don't really see how we are being disproportionately rewarded for diving?

United, on the other hand, have 9 already.
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I don't think Liverpool have been diving this season that much. I think that's not the best thing to focus on, and it distorts the general picture. Someone on here described the season as the league was being 'managed' by the refs - it's not just the number of penalties given.

Utd's penalty count is ludicrous, but as they have no way of scoring against organised defence, they need all the help Riley can give them!
 
Copper said:
You're right, it is inconsistent, but that applies to us as well. Matip was fouled during a corner against Newcastle and nothing was given. Salah has been put in a headlock more than once in the box, nothing. Here's an image of Firmino clearly being fouled in the box too, but nothing:

https://images.ladbible.com/thumbna...4599ce25a68f08dd2fb7.png&quality=70&width=720
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And then there was Cahill getting away with a headlock for Palace (vs Watford ?).

There should be no excuse or hiding from incompetence when you have VAR, and every club's fans should be hammering at the PL about it.
 
Copper said:
I mean, we've had 4 penalties this season. The same number as Man City and Leicester. I don't really see how we are being disproportionately rewarded for diving?

United, on the other hand, have 9 already.
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Because dives don't necessarily equate to penalties, if a player loses the ball then they can throw themselves over arms aloft with a nice scream to get the referees attention, if it isn't in the box then it isn't a penalty, just a free kick and regaining of the ball. Are you seriously saying that Mane, Salah, Firmino, Fabinho, TAA, Robertson, Lovren, et al don't go over easily in the hope of gaining an advantage? Even in some cases when they'd have been better off carrying on playing? You can say all teams do that to some extent (which they do, we have Mahrez and Otanendi for example) but Liverpool have made it an art and have overtaken the Arsenal team containing Pires, Fabregas and Van Persie who were the worst for it in this country until last season.
 
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Copper said:
You're right, it is inconsistent, but that applies to us as well. Matip was fouled during a corner against Newcastle and nothing was given. Salah has been put in a headlock more than once in the box, nothing. Here's an image of Firmino clearly being fouled in the box too, but nothing:

https://images.ladbible.com/thumbna...4599ce25a68f08dd2fb7.png&quality=70&width=720
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They should have crumpled like Lovren, they may have got the decision then, whether any other team would have is a different question! ;)
 
Copper said:
You still haven’t explained how we were consistent last season?

I’m sorry, but it just seems incredibly desperate at this point. I’ve tried to be open and objective in my posts, but it’s becoming clear that some of you won’t even take in anything that’s being said, which is unfortunate.

My fiancé’s uncle is a staunch City fan. He’s around 60 years old now, and I’ve managed to have many sensible discussions with him about City and Liverpool over the past 4 years. Over the Christmas holidays, he was as magnanimous as you could possibly be and admitted that Liverpool are just too good this season and jokingly said City will take the crown back next season, so he’s not bothered. I’ve asked him about all this conspiracy/cheating stuff and he just laughed it off and said that’s what happens when you’re winning and that it is a load of nonsense.
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Your 'fiancées' (correct spelling unless you're marrying another fella) uncle is @franksinatra and I claim my £5
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Good post bud and respectful - couple points, hate to agree with Copper .. that was a foul on Mahrez and correct to award a penalty but had this been for another team then many would shout corruption as how easy he went down.

secondly, agree with the official laws for handball and offside - i get they made them for simplicity but it's made it worse and more fans angry, they will correct this for next season - VAR is new, it has to be trial and error and laws of the game has always changed - if they changed the laws on accidental handballs and adjusted the offside law so that an armpit doesn't count as offside, then VAR would be far less controversial
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I think if they sort out the offside and handball laws next season then things with VAR will settle down somewhat, it should only need to be used very rarely in games to be honest. It's only really needed for sorting out dives and for incidents that the referee has missed.
However, the referees need to be stronger and apply the laws of the game equally to all teams and that would stop a lot of the problems with it. As I've said to you before, Liverpool had so many offside goals last season because they're given the benefit of the doubt 90% of the time when for most other teams it's about 50% of the time as you'd expect. The media have to take some responsibility for this, there's no need to make a fractionally offside goal or an arguable referee decision a week long yellow ticker drama depending on which team it goes for or against. This is especially true when the coverage depends on who the pundit used to play for, just have good equal educational unbiased coverage for all teams and don't just pander to the teams with the most followers. The press shouldn't have as much control as they do over the way that games are governed. Obviously this is easier said than done, after all when was the last time a pundit said anything about a game when you thought 'I hadn't thought of that, I've learnt something new there', Souness is probably the last pundit who said anything worth listening to. This is probably wishful thinking living in the clickbait, 'have your say' media circus we have now though. Controversy means money for the press after all and they have 24 hour news channels they need to fill.
VAR this season is a complete farce but I find it difficult to blame VAR itself for that, I blame the weak referees and the self involved and inept PGMOL. Blaming VAR would be like blaming the referees whistle for a poor decision, it's just a tool at the end of the day being operated by what increasingly seems like a bunch of tools!
 
GAZZA said:
Just a side note - has anyone seen a VAR picture of Liverpool's second goal against us yet, does one exist?
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They put out a statement during the game to say it had been done,it was as tight as all the others being checked but there was no var check shown on tv and they still can't produce it,they flat out lied,proof if anyone still needs it,it still grinds my gears
 
Referees have been told to start using pitchside monitors in Premier League matches from this weekend when the VAR wants to change a decision on a red card. [@martynziegler]

Taking the piss now,look we are using the monitors for something that hardly happens
 
karen7 said:
Referees have been told to start using pitchside monitors in Premier League matches from this weekend when the VAR wants to change a decision on a red card. [@martynziegler]

Taking the piss now,look we are using the monitors for something that hardly happens
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In theory this is a small change but in practice it's quite a big one because it gets rid of the accountability void.

At the moment theres a gap where no one can work out if it's the referee or the VAR who have fucked up and that lets them slide on things.

When the monitors get involved the referees are 100% to blame for any mistake and theres no grey area about what the VAR can overrule.


It's a really big change.
 
domalino said:
In theory this is a small change but in practice it's quite a big one because it gets rid of the accountability void.

At the moment theres a gap where no one can work out if it's the referee or the VAR who have fucked up and that lets them slide on things.

When the monitors get involved the referees are 100% to blame for any mistake and theres no grey area about what the VAR can overrule.


It's a really big change.
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Especially if it brings about pressure from clubs for it to be used for many more offences .
 
domalino said:
In theory this is a small change but in practice it's quite a big one because it gets rid of the accountability void.

At the moment theres a gap where no one can work out if it's the referee or the VAR who have fucked up and that lets them slide on things.

When the monitors get involved the referees are 100% to blame for any mistake and theres no grey area about what the VAR can overrule.


It's a really big change.
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Presumably a response to IFAB telling them to get their house in order over the VAR protocol which Riley's ignored.

My first reaction is that I agree - it puts it on one person, and I'm sure people will try to keep an eye on the images that are shown.

Could certainly be the first crack in the dam.
 
W
domalino said:
In theory this is a small change but in practice it's quite a big one because it gets rid of the accountability void.

At the moment theres a gap where no one can work out if it's the referee or the VAR who have fucked up and that lets them slide on things.

When the monitors get involved the referees are 100% to blame for any mistake and theres no grey area about what the VAR can overrule.


It's a really big change.
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When var wants to change it is the key part,they don't want them using the monitors really so the ref can just tap his ear and shrug like Oliver does when he refs us and there is no come back just like now

Given they used us as the lab rats to show off their shiny new toy at the start of the season i think the one time it's used it will be on us,it won't be used on the likes of Robertson
 
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