Keir Starmer

karen7 said:
Why. has jess pulled out? She was confident on frifay evening,Starmer has to get in then shirley
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Thought her statement that she can't bring the whole party together was quite telling. Took that as tacit admission she can't get (particularly) the left of the party on board, which she'd need to win.

My hope is Starmer or Nandy can, and then quickly shift things back to towards the centre/centre left.
 
joe123 said:
Thought her statement that she can't bring the whole party together was quite telling. Took that as tacit admission she can't get (particularly) the left of the party on board, which she'd need to win.

My hope is Starmer or Nandy can, and then quickly shift things back to towards the centre/centre left.
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Well, your best hope has to be Nandy, Northern Labour voters in seats newly won by the Conservatives won't
countenance Starmer, for obvious reasons.
 
Lisa Nandy is by far the stand out for me in this race.

Speaks well, isn't extreme and was sensible on brexit.
 
blueinsa said:
Lisa Nandy is by far the stand out for me in this race.

Speaks well, isn't extreme and was sensible on brexit.
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I think the whole bunch of them are weak candidates, but would agree, she's the best of them,
the Tories want RLB, if not Starmer will do, leavers can't stand him up here.
 
NeilYoungIsBack said:
I'd insert pic of Kenneth Williams face here if I knew how...

ken.jpg
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joe123 said:
Thought her statement that she can't bring the whole party together was quite telling. Took that as tacit admission she can't get (particularly) the left of the party on board, which she'd need to win.

My hope is Starmer or Nandy can, and then quickly shift things back to towards the centre/centre left.
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Phillips' problem is that she's made a name for herself by badmouthing Labour in the press and revelling too much in Corbyn's failings. She didn't strangely realise that validation from non-Labour supporters wouldn't translate into validation from large numbers of party members. She's bemoaning factionalism in the party when she has been one of the worst offenders.

Nandy and Starmer are both very much on the left of the party. They have shown glimpses of being able to pull members of both sides of the party which gives me some hope. Moving to the centre isn't some kind of magic bullet. Everyone talking about needing a new centrist party seems to be forgetting the way the independent group completely bombed, the failure of the lib dems to kick on and also the huge defeat suffered by Ed Miliband. It's ok to be on the left, they just need to present the ideas as being sensible rather than disruptive and radical.
 
Mon Autre said:
Phillips' problem is that she's made a name for herself by badmouthing Labour in the press and revelling too much in Corbyn's failings. She didn't strangely realise that validation from non-Labour supporters wouldn't translate into validation from large numbers of party members. She's bemoaning factionalism in the party when she has been one of the worst offenders.

Nandy and Starmer are both very much on the left of the party. They have shown glimpses of being able to pull members of both sides of the party which gives me some hope. Moving to the centre isn't some kind of magic bullet. Everyone talking about needing a new centrist party seems to be forgetting the way the independent group completely bombed, the failure of the lib dems to kick on and also the huge defeat suffered by Ed Miliband. It's ok to be on the left, they just need to present the ideas as being sensible rather than disruptive and radical.
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I think you're right there actually - it isn't about being centrist in particular, that's just something people like me lazily apply to describe the needed shift away from Corbyn. Seen it mentioned on here a few times and I agree that the old left vs right divide based on the traditional class system is redundant now. Being left isn't an problem, but has to resonate with voters in the current social/cultural climate. How you do that when the best tactics/policy to get into power these days is apparently to be as populist as possible, i'm not sure.
 
joe123 said:
I think you're right there actually - it isn't about being centrist in particular, that's just something people like me lazily apply to describe the needed shift away from Corbyn. Seen it mentioned on here a few times and I agree that the old left vs right divide based on the traditional class system is redundant now. Being left isn't an problem, but has to resonate with voters in the current social/cultural climate. How you do that when the best tactics/policy to get into power these days is apparently to be as populist as possible, i'm not sure.
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It shouldn't come as a shock to anyone in politics that popular policies and a popular leader is a recipe for success.

Quite why populist is used as some kind of slur i will never know?
 
blueinsa said:
It shouldn't come as a shock to anyone in politics that popular policies and a popular leader is a recipe for success.

Quite why populist is used as some kind of slur i will never know?
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Populist has just become a term people use to describe people who don't vote the same as you, in reality every government is a populist government, but regarded more so when ordinary people vote for them and their policies.

populist

noun
noun: populist; plural noun: populists
a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
 
Mon Autre said:
Phillips' problem is that she's made a name for herself by badmouthing Labour in the press and revelling too much in Corbyn's failings. She didn't strangely realise that validation from non-Labour supporters wouldn't translate into validation from large numbers of party members. She's bemoaning factionalism in the party when she has been one of the worst offenders.

Nandy and Starmer are both very much on the left of the party. They have shown glimpses of being able to pull members of both sides of the party which gives me some hope. Moving to the centre isn't some kind of magic bullet. Everyone talking about needing a new centrist party seems to be forgetting the way the independent group completely bombed, the failure of the lib dems to kick on and also the huge defeat suffered by Ed Miliband. It's ok to be on the left, they just need to present the ideas as being sensible rather than disruptive and radical.
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I don't think Nandy is on the left of the party: I think she's pretty much in the centre but is consciously and sensibly lurching to the left in this leadership contest to win votes.

She's actually a good example that the party is more than just Blairites V Corbynites which is a blantantly false dichotomy created by supporters of those two factions.

I think the closest person to her in terms of politics was Ed Miliband. The idea that he lost because he was too right-wing is for-the-birds but he should serve as an example to her that policy alone doesn't win elections.
 
mexico1970 said:
Populist has just become a term people use to describe people who don't vote the same as you, in reality every government is a populist government, but regarded more so when ordinary people vote for them and their policies.

populist

noun
noun: populist; plural noun: populists
a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
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Steve Bannon, who I dislike very much but had a point on Corbyn, said that Jeremy is just as Populist as Trump, just on the left.
 
mexico1970 said:
Populist has just become a term people use to describe people who don't vote the same as you, in reality every government is a populist government, but regarded more so when ordinary people vote for them and their policies.

populist

noun
noun: populist; plural noun: populists
a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
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That's not my understanding of populist. I see it more like a populist leader tends to promise simple solutions to complex problems via the use of catchy but ultimately meaningless slogans that don't tie them to one particular viewpoint or another in order to be popular and gain power. Invariably once they gain power they don't deliver and blame someone else like poor people or immigrants. Think 'Make America Great Again' or 'Get Brexit Done'.
 
Mon Autre said:
Phillips' problem is that she's made a name for herself by badmouthing Labour in the press and revelling too much in Corbyn's failings. She didn't strangely realise that validation from non-Labour supporters wouldn't translate into validation from large numbers of party members. She's bemoaning factionalism in the party when she has been one of the worst offenders.

Nandy and Starmer are both very much on the left of the party. They have shown glimpses of being able to pull members of both sides of the party which gives me some hope. Moving to the centre isn't some kind of magic bullet. Everyone talking about needing a new centrist party seems to be forgetting the way the independent group completely bombed, the failure of the lib dems to kick on and also the huge defeat suffered by Ed Miliband. It's ok to be on the left, they just need to present the ideas as being sensible rather than disruptive and radical.
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Your first paragraph should tell why the second one isn’t very logical. If you bring the Labour Party to the centre a bit then you will still have the votes of those on the left because they don’t really have anywhere relevant to go. You cannot use the failure of the independent group in a fptp system as a reason for the Labour Party to become a bit less bonkers.
 
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