Shamima Begum

purplenose said:
The minute her defence in a British court it would be discredited along the lines of the statement having being given without legal guidance or under duress.

There should be one outcome and one only for anyone who has helped or supported ISIS.
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Absolutely.

But you and I should man up apparently.
 
blueish swede said:
If they are going to try her for specific crimes the UK would need to produce (as you intimated earlier) evidence. If they try to convict on a more general "being a member of..." or "collaborating with..." charge they would need to show that her actions after she entered Syria were voluntary. Eve if she travelled to Syria voluntarily, ISIS being what it was, it would be very difficult to prove beyond doubt that there was no coercion, especially considering her age and the definition I quoted above.
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It might be an overly simplistic approach, and fatally flawed, but my answer was predicated on her formally admitting her offences and therefore pleading guilty to a substantive offence. On that basis, the evidence doesn’t have to be overwhelming, as it frequently isn’t when people plead guilty to offences at an early stage. If not, she can stay where she is, as I have no doubt she’s guilty, with the only mitigation being her age at the time. She’s old enough to make her mind up now about the best course for her to take.
 
Nebuchadnezzar said:
I think she needs electrocution via radio accidentally falling into a bath.

Or, offered a free job as a TV aerial repair bloke and then send her out in the next storm.

Just trying to think of ways in which she hasn't been murdered on here yet....
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Make her read 10 threads made by @worsleyweb back to back?

She’d want to kill herself then.
 
Ban-jani said:
Capital punishment isn’t murder in my opinion but that’s another thread.

People are defending her, we’ve literally had someone on this thread insinuating she was too young to know what she was doing.

At 19 I reckon you’ve got a pretty good idea.
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Last time I looked chucking her out of an airplane wasn’t ‘capital punishment’. And people can do both. Understand the circumstances that led her to the path she took and also recognise that it was an unusual step for a 15 y/o which indicates a deeper problem than just ‘circumstances’.

No one in this thread has argued against trial and any punishment that may follow. The violence expressed is a different matter.
 
BobKowalski said:
Last time I looked chucking her out of an airplane wasn’t ‘capital punishment’. And people can do both. Understand the circumstances that led her to the path she took and also recognise that it was an unusual step for a 15 y/o which indicates a deeper problem than just ‘circumstances’.

No one in this thread has argued against trial and any punishment that may follow. The violence expressed is a different matter.
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I don’t think Hilts actually thought throwing her out of an airplane himself was something the British Government would take seriously.

The point is she still supported them and still does now, since she’s become an adult. She doesn’t even regret it.

If you heard a former Nazi Youth, who had reached the age of 19, saying they didn’t regret any of it, you’d quite rightly be appalled and wouldn’t be too bothered if someone shot them.

Now I’m happy to debate her having her citizenship revoked and whether that was right decision from a legal standpoint for our government but the public wanting her to not come back or to be given capital punishment by the Kurdish, is a reasonable position to take.

I will repeat, she was 18 and still there, living under ISIS, in the midst of atrocities and a year later she said she didn’t regret it.
 
Ban-jani said:
Capital punishment isn’t murder in my opinion but that’s another thread.

People are defending her, we’ve literally had someone on this thread insinuating she was too young to know what she was doing.

At 19 I reckon you’ve got a pretty good idea.
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People might become adult in the eyes of the law at 18 but they don’t magically mature and lots of things like for example exposure to horror can affect that.

Give over with your bollocks about people trying to defend her, there is a world of difference between that and trying to understand what led her to make the decisions she did.

Talking in terms of pure evil and trying to think of funny or clever ways to kill someone is a pretty good example of apparent adults behaving like fucking children
 
journolud said:
People might become adult in the eyes of the law at 18 but they don’t magically mature and lots of things like for example exposure to horror can affect that.

Give over with your bollocks about people trying to defend her, there is a world of difference between that and trying to understand what led her to make the decisions she did.

Talking in terms of pure evil and trying to think of funny or clever ways to kill someone is a pretty good example of apparent adults behaving like fucking children
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I listened to LBC the other week, during Holocaust Remembrance Day. James O’Brien quoting a book, authored by a survivor, picked out the most poignant part, in his opinion. It read something along the lines of “don’t try and understand what happened, don’t try and put yourselves in the shoes of the guilty, a normal person is best left away trying to normalise it”.

I suggest you take the man’s advice.

Now, had she joined them and then ended up in the Kurdish camp, at 15/16, then later regretted it and deeply apologised and showed she’d moved on from that thinking, I’d be in the same corner as you.

Unfortunately she hasn’t. According to her she doesn’t regret it, she only regrets her children dying and she says she had a good time.

This was her view at 15, it’s her view at 18 when she was still in the caliphate and this was her view at 19, after being captured by the Kurdish.

Being immature isn’t an excuse and you’re trying to defend her by looking for mitigating circumstances that have led to her behaviour.

I can only think that some people don’t actually know what ISIS are and what they did and continue to do.

A British prison is too good for her.
 
I saw this interview with an Indonesian guy (starts 1:24) who brought his whole family to ISIS and he expresses absolutely no remorse whatsoever for any of the victims of the regime. He describes it as "the biggest mistake of his life" but it's obvious that he only sees it as a mistake because they were defeated, not because of the horrific things done. He also tries to fob it off by saying "everyone makes mistakes, I'm sure you've made mistakes" as if joining a genocidal regime is the same as forgetting your anniversary.

Having said that, the video goes into the terrible situation that a lot of the kids of these cunts are now in as a result of their parents' actions.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Whilst that is noted, how do you believe that it should be handled legally, given that what you want isn’t currently within the parameters of judicial law?
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I have absolutely no idea.

Probably that she shouldn’t have had her citizenship revoked and she would be in a British prison.

But our system is such a joke I don’t think that’s morally correct. She’d be in for several years and then out with a new identity all at the taxpayers expense.
 
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