Keir Starmer

BlueHammer85 said:
If anyone’s going to ruin his chances - it’s the momentum Labour supporters - and that will be very frustrating for those that want an end to Tory power.
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Agreed, if he can expunge the party of Lansman and his crew he could have a chance, but
his selection of shadow ministers isn't too inspiring.
 
Only way for Labour to win power in the short /medium term is to be centrist, the other way is to stay left wing, and just chill for another ten years until the public tires of voting conservative and realises they need a change of policy rather than just a new face. The danger for them with this is that it opens up the center for the lib dems. Difficult choice between turning into something the rw feel comfortable voting for, or the long term risk of not selling out.
 
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Prestwich_Blue said:
That's what the Corbyn cultists would rather do though. It gives them purpose & meaning to shout slogans from the sidelines.
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Glass houses.

#EnoughisEnough

Enough-is-enough-1.jpg


We now know paid Labour Party staff, centred around Tom Watson and other "moderates", deliberately sabotaged the process of dealing with claims of anti-Semitism in order to "get the Trots".

Given the distress this must have caused to many Jewish people, particularly those who were the victims of anti-Semitism, who couldn't understand why their cases were taking so long to process and in some instances ignored, I'm sure you'll be calling for immediate action.

No doubt a number of these saboteurs will still be members of the party and of course you'll be asking for their membership to be suspended pending an enquiry.

Otherwise you'd be opening yourself up to accusations of being fraud and we wouldn't want that.
 
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jma said:
Don't you think that rubbishing the newly elected leader of your own party on petty, internal matters that are of little concern to the wìder electorate (not saying they have no importance but the electorate as a whole aren't bothered about internal Labour appointments) and obviously being opposed to him is also an example of factionalism?

Given that very similar attitudes in the other direction were (with some justification) cited as such when Cornyn was elected leader?
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Of course its an example of factionalism and it is why Starmer is the wrong man, he has pandered to the centrist metropolitan liberal left and there is no way the red wall will return to vote Labour under him. He is pro EU for a start, he is a typical Blairite and his appointments to the shadow cabinet are uninspiring at best and a downright snub and insult to those of us on the left.

Labour are losing members and whilst it may not be of import to the wider electorate, it is those who tread the pavements, knocked on doors and delivered the leaflets trying to get Labour elected at the last election whilst the people he brought back were sniping at us from the sides and conspiring against us from HQ.

And yesterday I saw the sickening headline in the Telegraph praising Starmer, he has been accepted by the establishment we need to beat and that acceptance marks him out as one of them.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
If anyone’s going to ruin his chances - it’s the momentum Labour supporters - and that will be very frustrating for those that want an end to Tory power.
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How many times does it need to be posted. Momentum have 6k members out of what was 500k Labour party members, their influence is hugely overegged.

Momentum are a campaign group, they have little influence on who is in power in the party. Because NUMBERS.
 
Rascal said:
How many times does it need to be posted. Momentum have 6k members out of what was 500k Labour party members, their influence is hugely overegged.

Momentum are a campaign group, they have little influence on who is in power in the party. Because NUMBERS.
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That's immaterial, we're not talking rationality here.

Momentum is a blank slate for idiots, reactionaries and snidey fuckers, to scribble whatever they like
 
Rascal said:
How many times does it need to be posted. Momentum have 6k members out of what was 500k Labour party members, their influence is hugely overegged.

Momentum are a campaign group, they have little influence on who is in power in the party. Because NUMBERS.
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ok good, they are a very loud bunch in that case and it seems social media is awash with momentum wannabes - just really want to avoid Labour fans turning on Starmer otherwise it's just another easy run for the Tories.
 
The perfect fumble said:
That's immaterial, we're not talking rationality here.

Momentum is a blank slate for idiots, reactionaries and snidey fuckers, to scribble whatever they like
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True, I joined momentum when it started as I genuinely believed they had ideas worth consideration, I left it after 12 months as it was useless. It just sloganeered and produced videos. It was not what I thought it would be at all, but it became the perfect bogey organisation for the RW media who hugely exaggerated there influence.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
ok good, they are a very loud bunch in that case and it seems social media is awash with momentum wannabes - just really want to avoid Labour fans turning on Starmer otherwise it's just another easy run for the Tories.
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Its an easy win for the Tories because Starmer may as well be a Tory. If you vote for him, you get Tory lite, not Socialism.

And i am not a Labour "fan" i am a dyed in the wool Socialist who has held my beliefs from the time i became politically aware. I am not turning on Starmer because he is Labour leader, i am against him because he is not a Socialist and i believe the Labour party should always be led by a Socialist. I have nothing against him personally i just believe he is in the wrong party and wants to take our party to the right and by doing so we will never have a Socialist government. He is atypical of the liberal left and the liberal left with its inbuilt middle class London metropolitan base will just not appeal to the northern heartlands.

I seriously hope i am very wrong, i really do because i am sick of Johnson and the Tories and the damage they are doing to the country and the disdain with which they hold the working class, but at the moment i just cant see it and it breaks my heart.
 
Rascal said:
True, I joined momentum when it started as I genuinely believed they had ideas worth consideration, I left it after 12 months as it was useless. It just sloganeered and produced videos. It was not what I thought it would be at all, but it became the perfect bogey organisation for the RW media who hugely exaggerated there influence.
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That was my experience too.

It doesn't matter, as long as the Murdoch Channel gets Postman Pat to foam at the mouth from time to time, the knee jerkers can twitch away to their heart's content.
 
Rascal said:
Its an easy win for the Tories because Starmer may as well be a Tory. If you vote for him, you get Tory lite, not Socialism.

And i am not a Labour "fan" i am a dyed in the wool Socialist who has held my beliefs from the time i became politically aware. I am not turning on Starmer because he is Labour leader, i am against him because he is not a Socialist and i believe the Labour party should always be led by a Socialist. I have nothing against him personally i just believe he is in the wrong party and wants to take our party to the right and by doing so we will never have a Socialist government. He is atypical of the liberal left and the liberal left with its inbuilt middle class London metropolitan base will just not appeal to the northern heartlands.

I seriously hope i am very wrong, i really do because i am sick of Johnson and the Tories and the damage they are doing to the country and the disdain with which they hold the working class, but at the moment i just cant see it and it breaks my heart.
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Corbyn was pure socialist and I doubt we’ll ever get a party leader more socialist than him.

labour got hammered.

it’s better to have a ‘Tory lite’ in charge that can implement more socialist values and shape him to do so - labour have a far better chance of getting into power come next election for a long long time.
 
So Labour is a mixture of

Momentum
Corbynists
Trots
Blairites
Jew haters
Deniers of antisemitism
Back stabbers of Corbyn
Those who kept quiet about the back stabbers
The metropolitan liberal elite
Any others?

No doubt plenty of crossover so ladies and gents that's the Labour Party the lefties on here vote for. No doubt their particular sub group is true and just though

PMSL
 
The perfect fumble said:
We now know paid Labour Party staff, centred around Tom Watson and other "moderates", deliberately sabotaged the process of dealing with claims of anti-Semitism in order to "get the Trots".

Given the distress this must have caused to many Jewish people, particularly those who were the victims of anti-Semitism, who couldn't understand why their cases were taking so long to process and in some instances ignored, I'm sure you'll be calling for immediate action.

No doubt a number of these saboteurs will still be members of the party and of course you'll be asking for their membership to be suspended pending an enquiry.

Otherwise you'd be opening yourself up to accusations of being fraud and we wouldn't want that.
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I don't think either side has come out of this well. Clearly there was an attempt within the party machinery to embarrass Corbyn at the expense of dealing decisively & robustly with clear cases of antisemitism. There's no way I'm going to try to support that or make any excuses for it.

But claiming, as that prick Jackie Walker is trying to do, that this somehow exonerates antisemites is ridiculous & mendacious in the extreme. As I've already shown on here, the report quite explicitly states that there was a problem with antisemitism in the party and there's only one person to blame for that, who is the leader himself. He gave the green light to these racists to come out of the shadows. He as good as lifted the rocks they crawled out from under with his own hands.

But let's not forget what lay behind the putting together and leaking of this report. It was part of the scorched earth policy of the group around Corbyn that was more interested in attacking another grouping within the party, that opposed to the leader, than solving the antisemitism issue. So I hope every single fucker on both sides is given the boot, as they've been clearly more interested in fighting their sectarian battles than eliminating the acknowledged racism within the party. I'm sure that you & I can agree on that.
 
Rascal said:
How many times does it need to be posted. Momentum have 6k members out of what was 500k Labour party members, their influence is hugely overegged.

Momentum are a campaign group, they have little influence on who is in power in the party. Because NUMBERS.
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The 500k Labour membership has little influence on who runs the country because NUMBERS.

Labour can only hope to end Tory rule by appealing to over 40% of the electorate. That’s just how our FPTP system works.

The far-left would be better setting up as a splinter protest group and trying to influence politics that way. Because they have absolutely zero chance of winning the consensus of the electorate with their ideals.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
But claiming, as that prick Jackie Walker is trying to do, that this somehow exonerates antisemites is ridiculous & mendacious in the extreme. As I've already shown on here, the report quite explicitly states that there was a problem with antisemitism in the party and there's only one person to blame for that, who is the leader himself. He gave the green light to these racists to come out of the shadows. He as good as lifted the rocks they crawled out from under with his own hands.
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Extreme? I'll give you extreme....

"the report quite explicitly states that there was a problem with antisemitism in the party and there's only one person to blame for that, who is the leader himself. He gave the green light to these racists to come out of the shadows. He as good as lifted the rocks they crawled out from under with his own hands."

Lifted the rocks they crawled out from under with his own hands!!!? Listen to yourself! That's the oppressed using the language of their oppressor!

We have gone over this time and time again, the basis of your accusations is so thin, so tenuous, as to be laughable. Corbyn was guilty of precisely nothing, even you can't find anything to pin on him, so you resort to innuendo, the permissive atmosphere he created, which allowed anti-Semitism to flourish! The beauty of that argument is it requires absolutely nothing to substantiate it.

As I've said before, it doesn't matter now, Corbyn is gone, so too is the Jewish Chronicle and the Jewish News. Mea culpa from Starmer, we're all friends of Israel again.

Well done.

Oh, by the way, when folk say this....
Prestwich_Blue said:
I don't think either side has come out of this well.
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It means your side got caught.
 
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jma said:
Don't you think that rubbishing the newly elected leader of your own party on petty, internal matters that are of little concern to the wìder electorate (not saying they have no importance but the electorate as a whole aren't bothered about internal Labour appointments) and obviously being opposed to him is also an example of factionalism?

Given that very similar attitudes in the other direction were (with some justification) cited as such when Cornyn was elected leader?
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I ain't rubbishing him, I am stating that I find him bland, which he is, I found Corbyn annoying and dull also.

And sorry but Liz Kendall is abysmal and shouldn't be anywhere near the front bench.

Johnson won his big majority with one phrase,, that was repeated with vigour and robust confidence, even though leadership wise his is fucking useless.

Starmer may make one hell of PM, but he is still bland.
 
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