The Scottish Politics thread

[Gabriel]

Sturgeon is a good leader and this crisis has shown how the continuous campaign to denegrate her is from the same book that did for Corbyn. People are now seeing why she Is FM. She has shown how to lead and by doing so how fucking useless Boris actually is.

She openly accepts mistakes have been made and doesn't try to slime her way out of them. Contrast that with Westminster.

We haven't been talking about Indy because right now we have to battle to save as many of our people as we can. One fight at a time is the Scottish way. I always knew she had the metal, judgement and compassion. The rest of you are starting to see that too, or you are blinded by bias.

If she was an English politician, she would be leading any of the parties and do a better job than any of the cunts in post now.

As Boris shamelessly let's our poorer kids go hungry by taking School meals away, the fucking **** they he is, she won't do that and you should be up in arms he is even trying.

Our kids are all having a hard time, to add to the plight of our poorest, by taking away food is fucking making me sick with rage. I see young Rashfords letter was dealt with typical Tory disdain and they are backtracking. But never forget, even if they buckle, the bastards wanted to starve our poorest children. And if anybody is ok with that, youre a fucking **** too.

There is more than a whiff of misogyny in some of the characterizations of her, but you’re comparing different leadership styles. Sturgeon enjoys centralizing power and decision-making, whereas Johnson admitted from the off that he would be a broad brushstrokes prime minister and lead a team of implementing ministers. Time will tell which approach was more successful in this period, but Johnson is acting as he said he would, so people ought not to be surprised.

It’ll be interesting to see how popular she is now in the East of the country. Always had the impression that Salmond was popular in the East but less so in the West, whereas Sturgeon was popular in the West but less so in the East. Maybe that latter situation will have changed.

Certainly vitriolic attacks on her are only likely to backfire and strengthen her standing in the eyes of Scottish voters. She’s a bit like the ‘big’ sister you may never have had, the one who will say ‘take a tellin’ and you will; you’ll ‘dae as yir telt’.

 

[Magicpole]

There is more than a whiff of misogyny in some of the characterizations of her, but you’re comparing different leadership styles. Sturgeon enjoys centralizing power and decision-making, whereas Johnson admitted from the off that he would be a broad brushstrokes prime minister and lead a team of implementing ministers. Time will tell which approach was more successful in this period, but Johnson is acting as he said he would, so people ought not to be surprised.

It’ll be interesting to see how popular she is now in the East of the country. Always had the impression that Salmond was popular in the East but less so in the West, whereas Sturgeon was popular in the West but less so in the East. Maybe that latter situation will have changed.

Certainly vitriolic attacks on her are only likely to backfire and strengthen her standing in the eyes of Scottish voters. She’s a bit like the ‘big’ sister you may never have had, the one who will say ‘take a tellin’ and you will; you’ll ‘dae as yir telt’.

Johnson is a chancer. He's played the immigration card on Brexit. He has been shown to be a chancer. And if you voted for a chancer then he has delivered. He's out of his depth.

 

[Ban-jani]

Sturgeon is a good leader and this crisis has shown how the continuous campaign to denegrate her is from the same book that did for Corbyn. People are now seeing why she Is FM. She has shown how to lead and by doing so how fucking useless Boris actually is.

She openly accepts mistakes have been made and doesn't try to slime her way out of them. Contrast that with Westminster.

We haven't been talking about Indy because right now we have to battle to save as many of our people as we can. One fight at a time is the Scottish way. I always knew she had the metal, judgement and compassion. The rest of you are starting to see that too, or you are blinded by bias.

If she was an English politician, she would be leading any of the parties and do a better job than any of the cunts in post now.

As Boris shamelessly let's our poorer kids go hungry by taking School meals away, the fucking **** they he is, she won't do that and you should be up in arms he is even trying.

Our kids are all having a hard time, to add to the plight of our poorest, by taking away food is fucking making me sick with rage. I see young Rashfords letter was dealt with typical Tory disdain and they are backtracking. But never forget, even if they buckle, the bastards wanted to starve our poorest children. And if anybody is ok with that, youre a fucking **** too.

I’ve read some shit on here but that’s right up there pal :-)

Up until recently she was trying to break away as much as possible from responding as an entire nation, to either make herself stand out or to prove Scotland can go it alone.

It wasn’t working and pressure has meant she’s had to stop announcing different things Scotland are doing.

If Boris is a chancer, she’s the female version.

 

[Saddleworth2]

There is more than a whiff of misogyny in some of the characterizations of her, but you’re comparing different leadership styles. Sturgeon enjoys centralizing power and decision-making, whereas Johnson admitted from the off that he would be a broad brushstrokes prime minister and lead a team of implementing ministers. Time will tell which approach was more successful in this period, but Johnson is acting as he said he would, so people ought not to be surprised.

It’ll be interesting to see how popular she is now in the East of the country. Always had the impression that Salmond was popular in the East but less so in the West, whereas Sturgeon was popular in the West but less so in the East. Maybe that latter situation will have changed.

Certainly vitriolic attacks on her are only likely to backfire and strengthen her standing in the eyes of Scottish voters. She’s a bit like the ‘big’ sister you may never have had, the one who will say ‘take a tellin’ and you will; you’ll ‘dae as yir telt’.

From an east coast Scot, Salmon is a despicable slimy English hating bigot and always was one. Sturgeon is showing commendable leadership through this crisis.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I’ve read some shit on here but that’s right up there pal :-)

Up until recently she was trying to break away as much as possible from responding as an entire nation, to either make herself stand out or to prove Scotland can go it alone.

It wasn’t working and pressure has meant she’s had to stop announcing different things Scotland are doing.

If Boris is a chancer, she’s the female version.

I wish we had done things totally different. It might have saved a few thousand lives.

 

[Gabriel]

From an east coast Scot, Salmon is a despicable slimy English hating bigot and always was one. Sturgeon is showing commendable leadership through this crisis.

Didn’t suggest that the popularity of either was universal.

People appreciate straight talking, even more so in a crisis, and that is certainly one of Sturgeon’s strengths. She now needs to act swiftly and learn from the recent mistakes so that they are not repeated if there is a second wave.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Didn’t suggest that the popularity of either was universal.

People appreciate straight talking, even more so in a crisis, and that is certainly one of Sturgeon’s strengths. She now needs to act swiftly and learn from the recent mistakes so that they are not repeated if there is a second wave.

I’ll be honest that my main criticism of her is she has kept too close to the U.K. model and therefore replicated some of the failings particularly around the original lockdown and provision of PPE. I’m heartened that our relaxation has been slower than England’s. Our track and trace seems to be operating ok as well.

 

[Ban-jani]

I wish we had done things totally different. It might have saved a few thousand lives.

You’ve not been following it then.

 

[Saddleworth2]

You’ve not been following it then.

Oh, I have. I would far rather we had adopted say a New Zealand Approach than the Westminster approach whatever that was.

 

[Ban-jani]

Oh, I have. I would far rather we had adopted say a New Zealand Approach than the Westminster approach whatever that was.

What were the key differences?

 

[Saddleworth2]

What were the key differences?

Earlier lock down, tight control of the borders and more effective track and trace. Probably better compliance too from what I have read.

 

[Gabriel]

I’ll be honest that my main criticism of her is she has kept too close to the U.K. model and therefore replicated some of the failings particularly around the original lockdown and provision of PPE. I’m heartened that our relaxation has been slower than England’s. Our track and trace seems to be operating ok as well.

Don’t think that she could feasibly have declared a unilateral lockdown in February/March, but the fact that the countries have staggered their respective reopening suggests that the authority to do so may be there in the future. PPE was calamitous across Europe, too, but that should be more easily rectified.

Like elsewhere across Europe, one of the key issues to be addressed, and now, is how to prevent any second wave from affecting care homes as badly. Get that wrong in the winter and all governments will be in hot water.

 

[Ban-jani]

Earlier lock down, tight control of the borders and more effective track and trace. Probably better compliance too from what I have read.

The UK went into lockdown 2 days before New Zealand did.

The UK is in the top 5 most visited countries in the world, with several busier airports than New Zealand, meaning thousands more cancellations and a much harder job on restriction of travel, although we should have done more.

Track and trace is a lot easier when you’ve 4 million people compared to 66 million, with both countries having relatively the same territory.

What about the compliance?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

The UK went into lockdown 2 days before New Zealand did.

The UK is in the top 5 most visited countries in the world, with several busier airports than New Zealand, meaning thousands more cancellations and a much harder job on restriction of travel, although we should have done more.

Track and trace is a lot easier when you’ve 4 million people compared to 66 million, with both countries having relatively the same territory.

What about the compliance?

Exactly, in the scheme of things New Zealand is an isolated sparsely populated
island in the South pacific, regulation is far easier.

 

[Ban-jani]

Exactly, in the scheme of things New Zealand is an isolated sparsely populated
island in the South pacific, regulation is far easier.

I keep telling people if I were to lead a country within the Anglosphere and Europe, during the Covid-19 outbreak, I’d 100% pick New Zealand.

Swap her and Johnson and the results wouldn’t be too dissimilar than they are now.

Despite him being a spineless oaf.

 

[Saddleworth2]

The UK went into lockdown 2 days before New Zealand did.

In terms of a date it did, you are absolutely right mate. In terms of how early in the 'wave' though, you are 100% wrong.
NewZealand locked down completely on around 200 cases and no deaths. UK locked down when the cases were approaching 6000 and 500 deaths. Airspace to UK remained open without any quarantine and subsequent study has shown that 95% of the UK virus came from our European neighbours with less than 1% from China. NZ closed its borders to all but its own Citizens mid March. Its amazing how much easier track and trace is when you can restrict the virus to small numbers.

Of course NZ is an island and far easier to protect and doesn't have any large cities and all its residents live in hobbit holes making it simpler to self isolate. NZ economy is in no way reliant on tourists either. But 100% if Johnson had been in charge they would have had exactly the same outcome.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Don’t think that she could feasibly have declared a unilateral lockdown in February/March, but the fact that the countries have staggered their respective reopening suggests that the authority to do so may be there in the future. PPE was calamitous across Europe, too, but that should be more easily rectified.

Like elsewhere across Europe, one of the key issues to be addressed, and now, is how to prevent any second wave from affecting care homes as badly. Get that wrong in the winter and all governments will be in hot water.

You are right, it would have been incredibly difficult for her to do politically. Shut the airports and close the Border to England whilst Cheltenham Festival was on. You can imagine the reaction. So I cant blame her for not doing that. Sending aged hospital patients back into care homes without being tested, now thats another matter. Of course that has been a UK wide issue but it still beggars belief and fails every common sense challenge. Even if they had been discharged to the 'nightingale' hospitals that were never used, it would have made a difference.

 

[Ban-jani]

In terms of a date it did, you are absolutely right mate. In terms of how early in the 'wave' though, you are 100% wrong.
NewZealand locked down completely on around 200 cases and no deaths. UK locked down when the cases were approaching 6000 and 500 deaths. Airspace to UK remained open without any quarantine and subsequent study has shown that 95% of the UK virus came from our European neighbours with less than 1% from China. NZ closed its borders to all but its own Citizens mid March. Its amazing how much easier track and trace is when you can restrict the virus to small numbers.

Of course NZ is an island and far easier to protect and doesn't have any large cities and all its residents live in hobbit holes making it simpler to self isolate. NZ economy is in no way reliant on tourists either. But 100% if Johnson had been in charge they would have had exactly the same outcome.

As I’ve said, you swap PM’s and there’s very little difference.

When you compare “when” you also have to factor in population size.

200 cases is 0.004% of NZ’s population, 0.004% of our population is 264,000 cases.

That shows the sheer difference in managing this outbreak.

You have to factor in that we have free movement with Europe still now, we couldn’t just shut our borders but we should have been quarantining those coming from Italy earlier.

I’ve got many criticisms of Johnson, though they’ll likely be different to yours, however comparing us to NZ is ridiculous.

It’s half way to comparing England with The Falkland Islands.

 

[Saddleworth2]

As I’ve said, you swap PM’s and there’s very little difference.

When you compare “when” you also have to factor in population size.

200 cases is 0.004% of NZ’s population, 0.004% of our population is 264,000 cases.

That shows the sheer difference in managing this outbreak.

You have to factor in that we have free movement with Europe still now, we couldn’t just shut our borders but we should have been quarantining those coming from Italy earlier.

I’ve got many criticisms of Johnson, though they’ll likely be different to yours, however comparing us to NZ is ridiculous.

It’s half way to comparing England with The Falkland Islands.

NZ has roughly the same population as Scotland. Want to compare the respective figures? No, don't bother you already know the outcome. One country restricted the Virus gaining extensive access, one failed to do so. One closed its airspace, the other didn't.

 

[Ban-jani]

NZ has roughly the same population as Scotland. Want to compare the respective figures? No, don't bother you already know the outcome. One country restricted the Virus gaining extensive access, one failed to do so. One closed its airspace, the other didn't.

It’s the population of Scotland with a territory larger than the entire UK.

Scotland isn’t a secluded island country on the arse end of the world, it’s part of the UK and still in the Single Market, meaning freedom of movement from the rest of Europe.

Mrs Ardern’s job was easier than anyone else’s in the Anglosphere and Europe.

That’s not to say she didn’t do well, it’s just a fact.

If you take the percentage of NZ’s population who have died and divide it to the UK’s total population, it’s the equivalent of 37,000 dying, so not as great as you think despite all of those advantages.