Political relations between UK-EU

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hilts said:
The union isn’t split but again what is the solution, normally 2 things would happen with a vote that the whole union partakes in.

Remain wins all stays the same leavers unlucky that’s democracy
Leave win U.K. spilts from Eu border goes up.

Now leave wins and we can’t put a border up so what do you suggest we do sack the whole thing? So we have a union where a very small minority decides for the whole U.K. guessing I reckon about 400,000 people in NI voted remain. So these 400,000 determine the future forever or until a time when a border becomes acceptable which may be never. So know we have one or two posters saying isn’t it bad that no one cares about NI, really?

Welsh remainers tough, Scottish remainers tough, English remainers tough that’s democracy. Northern Ireland citizens can pick their passports they can get a lot of the EU benefits even after the vote and the U.K. leaving.It’s seems like a pretty sweet deal to me.

Ask yourself who has lost the least out of this? And then ask yourself if it’s not a bit much to suggest Northern Ireland has been sold out.
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Again, the answer to that depends if you’re truly a unionist or not.
 
hilts said:
The union isn’t split but again what is the solution, normally 2 things would happen with a vote that the whole union partakes in.

Remain wins all stays the same leavers unlucky that’s democracy
Leave win U.K. spilts from Eu border goes up.

Now leave wins and we can’t put a border up so what do you suggest we do sack the whole thing? So we have a union where a very small minority decides for the whole U.K. guessing I reckon about 400,000 people in NI voted remain. So these 400,000 determine the future forever or until a time when a border becomes acceptable which may be never. So know we have one or two posters saying isn’t it bad that no one cares about NI, really?

Welsh remainers tough, Scottish remainers tough, English remainers tough that’s democracy. Northern Ireland citizens can pick their passports they can get a lot of the EU benefits even after the vote and the U.K. leaving.It’s seems like a pretty sweet deal to me.

Ask yourself who has lost the least out of this? And then ask yourself if it’s not a bit much to suggest Northern Ireland has been sold out.
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I respectfully suggest that you have forgotten what we have learned over the years:

Irish Nationalism, Scottish Nationalism and EU 'nationalism' = something noble and to be greatly admired

English people showing a bit of care about what happens to them = Something to be decried and abhorred.

The truth is that Remainer May sold the whole of the UK out and her unfettered backstop deal committed the UK to vassalage in perpetuity

A lot on here were happy with that - strangely other English people were not - it had to be removed..

Like most English people I would think - I would/did not wish to see N.I. treated separately, but the truth is that the highly regrettable deal that has led to the NIP came about due to the actions of May in 2017-2019 in selling out the whole of the UK.

But it is late - I humbly suggest that this will make better reading than some of what you have been dealing with.

Brexit is a reality; the U.S. must act accordingly - Washington Times

But more importantly - I've never felt more like singing the blues......

Time to sleep happily
 
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meltonblue said:
Again, the answer to that depends if you’re truly a unionist or not.
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If you are not going to reply to a post properly outside of a meangless cliche don't bother mate. Some people have a serious problem when seeing things from the other side. If the people of Northern Ireland were a majority of unionists and that was accepted by the country as a whole in a democracy this debate wouldn't exist.

Life is complicated who knew. But in future I will make a point of considering the feelings of the good people of Northern Ireland with their dual passports. Dual parliaments. UK and eu membership in all but name. Why?
Because someone on bluemoon said no one cares about NI.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I respectfully suggest that you have forgotten what we have learned over the years:

Irish Nationalism, Scottish Nationalism and EU 'nationalism' = something noble and to be greatly admired

English people showing a bit of care about what happens to them = Something to be decried and abhorred.

The truth is that Remainer May sold the whole of the UK out and her unfettered backstop deal committed the UK to vassalage in perpetuity

A lot on here were happy with that - strangely other English people were not - it had to be removed..

Like most English people I would think - I would/did not wish to see N.I. treated separately, but the truth is that the highly regrettable deal that has led to the NIP came about due to the actions of May in 2017-2019 in selling out the whole of the UK.

But it is late - I humbly suggest that this will make better reading than some of what you have been dealing with.

Brexit is a reality; the U.S. must act accordingly - Washington Times
Click to expand...
So is that what this is about?
English nationalism?

Just asking for a friend.
 
hilts said:
If you are not going to reply to a post properly outside of a meangless cliche don't bother mate. Some people have a serious problem when seeing things from the other side. If the people of Northern Ireland were a majority of unionists and that was accepted by the country as a whole in a democracy this debate wouldn't exist.

Life is complicated who knew. But in future I will make a point of considering the feelings of the good people of Northern Ireland with their dual passports. Dual parliaments. UK and eu membership in all but name. Why?
Because someone on bluemoon said no one cares about NI.
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Honestly, I didn’t think it needed explaining any more than what I put as I thought the reason why was obvious. I’ll reply properly to you tomorrow though as I still think you’re arguing something I’m not and not understanding my main point.
 
meltonblue said:
Honestly, I didn’t think it needed explaining any more than what I put as I thought the reason why was obvious. I’ll reply properly to you tomorrow though as I still think you’re arguing something I’m not and not understanding my main point.
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Ditto:-)
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
So is that what this is about?
English nationalism?

Just asking for a friend.
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Nope - not at all - where did you get that from? - there is really no such thing in reality - apart from a few dickheads

It 'was' about a Remainer being in charge of the negotiations to execute the mandate given by the UK electorate that the UK should leave the EU

It 'was' about the Remainer led government between 2017-2019 being so intent on doing that 'in name only' they were slavishly led up the garden path and controlled in the negotiations by the EU - resulting in the May WA being brought forward. That would have left the UK in vassal status in perpetuity

The UK electorate - although dominated by English voters - in 2019 rejected that - but a lot of damage was already done (the essentially May WA will be causing issues for years to come) and the NIP was a really unattractive compromise - but it came about due to the actions of May

Thankfully it is 'now' about the future of the UK outside the EU's controls - which is why I will seek to avoid getting dragged into the distractions that those unable to accept the reality of January 2021 seek to have dominate the thread(s) - not aimed at you at all.

But - anyway - night night
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
So is that what this is about?
English nationalism?

Just asking for a friend.
Click to expand...

I would also add, witnessing the scenes in the US with the far right entering the Capitol building and the death of one person, that a far right Brexit supporter murdered an MP during the referendum. The English nationalism that has infected our body politic is a particularly nasty strain.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Probably because we are nearly there and a lot of people are concerned.

View attachment 7813
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- Powerful and continuing nationalism - nope

- disdain for human rights - nope

- identification of enemies as unifying cause - definitely nope

- supremacy of military - have you seen the state of our military under Tory cuts lol?

- rampant sexism - nope

- controlled mass media - only sports journalists

- obsession with national security - considering they failed to even stop flights coming in during a pandemic hahaha

- religion and government intertwined - Christianity is anti fascist as an ideology, fascism may have come from a sub sect of radical right wing Catholics but it’s not fascist and anyway, religion is on a downward spiral unfortunately in the UK

- corporate power protect - this one there is a point but it’s due to the Tories being a pro corporate party not fascism

- Labour power suppressed - see above

Disdain for intellectuals and the arts - nope

obsession with crime and punishment - they’ve improved it, because it was weak as fuck and still is

Rampant cronyism and corruption - there is the hint of corruption yes but again, this is more to do with them being corporate pigs rather than fascists

- fraudulent elections - don’t even start suggesting this has happened in the UK, you’ll sound like Trump.

—————————————————

Youve got half an argument with 3 out of 14.

This government is absolutely nowhere near fascist, it is totally delusional to think otherwise.

If you want to see fascism, look at what’s happening with the pathetic attempted coup over the pond.
 
BobKowalski said:
I would also add, witnessing the scenes in the US with the far right entering the Capitol building and the death of one person, that a far right Brexit supporter murdered an MP during the referendum. The English nationalism that has infected our body politic is a particularly nasty strain.
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Pmsl

Bob I can’t fault you for your efforts but fuck me you’re obsessed. Not healthy.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Overall the outcome of Brexit is completely and totally beyond my very best expectations pre-2016

When thinking back to how I was feeling in 2017-2019, as Remainer May shamefully fucked the UK over, then the outcome of December 2020 is absolutely off the fucking scale better than my best hopes, aspirations and dreams - I am totally and utterly delighted with where we are.

Now I know that you do not want me to feel this way - and I accept that you are not able to share the joy - but I am afraid that there is nothing that you can say or any straw that you can clutch that has the remotest chance of having even a miniscule impact on my happiness.

But - I am happy for you to try and I will respond in as positive manner as I can.

I would point out though, that the examples you have been giving about some fishing difficulties, or a few lorries having a problem, or.......

Do not seem to represent the scale of disaster that you and others have been predicting for years.

In summary - are these; somewhat isolated inconveniences a price worth paying for the achievement of getting the UK the fuck out of the EU - and on the road to becoming a genuinely independent state?

IMO - you bet they fucking are!!
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We are 3 working days into this ..... just 3 and today starting the 4th .... 2 in Scotland . Its already looking like a shit show
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Sounds so familiar...
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It does but we all know the solution, to the N. Ireland problem it was the solution you yourself advocated from the start, EEA/EFTA. I know many others didn’t, but think most of the public would have settled for it away from the extremes on both sides,but it would have solved the Britain / N.Ireland / Ireland border issues.
The extreme ERG / Express types were afforded far too much influence.
 
Ban-jani said:
- Powerful and continuing nationalism - nope

- disdain for human rights - nope

- identification of enemies as unifying cause - definitely nope

- supremacy of military - have you seen the state of our military under Tory cuts lol?

- rampant sexism - nope

- controlled mass media - only sports journalists

- obsession with national security - considering they failed to even stop flights coming in during a pandemic hahaha

- religion and government intertwined - Christianity is anti fascist as an ideology, fascism may have come from a sub sect of radical right wing Catholics but it’s not fascist and anyway, religion is on a downward spiral unfortunately in the UK

- corporate power protect - this one there is a point but it’s due to the Tories being a pro corporate party not fascism

- Labour power suppressed - see above

Disdain for intellectuals and the arts - nope

obsession with crime and punishment - they’ve improved it, because it was weak as fuck and still is

Rampant cronyism and corruption - there is the hint of corruption yes but again, this is more to do with them being corporate pigs rather than fascists

- fraudulent elections - don’t even start suggesting this has happened in the UK, you’ll sound like Trump.

—————————————————

Youve got half an argument with 3 out of 14.

This government is absolutely nowhere near fascist, it is totally delusional to think otherwise.

If you want to see fascism, look at what’s happening with the pathetic attempted coup over the pond.
Click to expand...

Johnson is a clone of Trump, the bluster, the lies, the refusal to take responsibility, Patel is our version of Trump’s Stephen Miller. For four years the Govt, including under May, have been on their knees sucking Trump’s dick.

Biden himself views Johnson as a Trump like creature.

If we can see fascism across the pond, then we shouldn’t be blind to our own version.
 
BobKowalski said:
Johnson is a clone of Trump, the bluster, the lies, the refusal to take responsibility, Patel is our version of Trump’s Stephen Miller. For four years the Govt, including under May, have been on their knees sucking Trump’s dick.

Biden himself views Johnson as a Trump like creature.

If we can see fascism across the pond, then we shouldn’t be blind to our own version.
Click to expand...
Oh my word you lot are funny.

Johnson is a bad liar yes, look at his private life... but he’s absolutely nothing like Trump.

And the reason May was, not going to repeat your sexist phrase about a female leader, cosying up to America is because they are our greatest allies and the most powerful and committed NATO member.

What did you want, Corbyn telling America to get fucked ?

What do you think would have happened then?

Biden doesn’t know what day it is, he’s preferable to Trump because he’s not a big fat fascist. He doesn’t like Britain much and never has Biden.

If you think the UK government is fascist then you should pack up politics as you haven’t a clue what you’re on about.

Funny how you’ve not tackled the list yourself presented by fellow delusional @ificouldjust.
 
hilts said:
Yeah I’m laughing at that exact incident not your obsession.

Oh Bob is there any hope for you?
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Yeah, a single reference to an event that happened here four years ago and mirroring it with events in Washington yesterday is ‘an obsession’. Both were birthed by the same twisted nationalism, and fed with lies.

But then you were unable to grasp the NI issue, or even understand the problem, so your reaction is no surprise.
 
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