Political relations between UK-EU

[BobKowalski]

I don’t want to pretend anything but she was murdered by a far right extremist for being specifically socially liberal, not because of her Brexit stance.

She could have been Labour leave and still harboured her social views and the cretin would have still wanted to murder her.

It’s also a single tragic event, rather than a sign of the times.

The majority of people are well over Brexit now.

Other than the attack, which occurred during the Brexit referendum when feelings were running hot, had nothing to do with Brexit.

Have a lie down and rethink your life.

 

[mcfc1632]

I am not sure using the death as Cox in this context is relevant or the right thing to do.

To use it - again - for the purpose of attempted cheap point scoring is grossly disrespectful - at least IMO

 

[Ban-jani]

I’ll get back to you in 5 years about immigration.
As for common law being at loggerheads, I’ve no idea what that even means. Maybe you could suggest one way that will positively impact our daily lives.

My entire point is there is practically zero impact on the daily lives of most people.

Only really immigration as a positive and a small number of people economically as a negative.

 

[BobKowalski]

My problem when I see Brexiteers posting that the fishing industry woes had nothing to do with Brexit.

Firstly is that the fishing industry only discovered these Covid inspired problems after 1st Jan, no doubt a coincidence, and secondly he then blames the deal, which is -er- Brexit, and for not getting unfettered access to the European Market, which we can’t because of (wait for it), Brexit.

How the hell do you ‘unify’ with this level of dishonesty?

 

[Ban-jani]

Other than the attack, which occurred during the Brexit referendum when feelings were running hot, had nothing to do with Brexit.

Have a lie down and rethink your life.

My life doesn’t need rethinking, I am very happy thank you.

Feelings hadn’t peaked at all at that point, they peaked well after the referendum when there was a stalemate in Parliament.

He was a far right extremist that had been planning to kill an MP who didn’t agree with his bigotry for a while.

I don’t think using that to highlight division over Brexit is very smart at all.

 

[west didsblue]

My entire point is there is practically zero impact on the daily lives of most people.

Only really immigration as a positive and a small number of people economically as a negative.

Seems it’s more than a small number but it should become clearer in due course.

 

[BobKowalski]

...Feelings hadn’t peaked at all at that point, they peaked well after the referendum when there was a stalemate in Parliament.

He was a far right extremist that had been planning to kill an MP who didn’t agree with his bigotry for a while.

I don’t think using that to highlight division over Brexit is very smart at all.

First point, no, and on the point in bold, denying the connection is dishonest.

A referendum was held and during the campaign an MP was murdered. What was your first clue that Brexit was going to be ’divisive’?

 

[Saddleworth2]

Well, we could pretend it didn’t happen if you like. Pretending things aren’t happening seems to be the general thrust of your argument.

It happened, but Brexit was not the primary reason. He was a white supremacist who saw Jo Cox as the enemy because of her views. He had been a slow burn for decades and had started to plan attacks way before Brexit.

 

[Ban-jani]

First point, no, and on the point in bold, denying the connection is dishonest.

A referendum was held and during the campaign an MP was murdered. What was your first clue that Brexit was going to be ’divisive’?

Does it mean that the MP was killed because of the campaign?

Cox wasn’t even a prominent name in the remain campaign, she was very much a local MP and the man who murdered her was local.

He killed her because of her support for the local Muslim population, of which he detested.

I really don’t like this point, I think it’s using the tragedy.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Not quite sure what it has to do with you but you’re actually correct.

It’s affecting our imports and exports too.

 

[BobKowalski]

It happened, but Brexit was not the primary reason. He was a white supremacist who saw Jo Cox as the enemy because of her views. He had been a slow burn for decades and had started to plan attacks way before Brexit.

And what turned the ‘slow burn‘ over decades into actual violence? Was there anything going on at the time? A referendum perhaps that emphasised ‘Britain First’? No more dictates from unelected foreign rulers? Did that referendum and its rhetoric not feed the resentments already simmering?

 

[BobKowalski]

It’s affecting our imports and exports too.

For some, Brexit is an English affair, and they would appreciate you not intruding on private matters :)

 

[Saddleworth2]

And what turned the ‘slow burn‘ over decades into actual violence? Was there anything going on at the time? A referendum perhaps that emphasised ‘Britain First’? No more dictates from unelected foreign rulers? Did that referendum and its rhetoric not feed the resentments already simmering?

It fed it mate, of course it did. If its hadn't been that, it would have been something else is my point.

 

[bluethrunthru]

My problem when I see Brexiteers posting that the fishing industry woes had nothing to do with Brexit.

Firstly is that the fishing industry only discovered these Covid inspired problems after 1st Jan, no doubt a coincidence, and secondly he then blames the deal, which is -er- Brexit, and for not getting unfettered access to the European Market, which we can’t because of (wait for it), Brexit.

How the hell do you ‘unify’ with this level of dishonesty?

March 2020 to 31st December 2020 the pandemic rages and no-one in fishing or politics mentions that Covid-19 is impacting the fishing industry. Then suddenly - out of the blue - in 23 days a 10 month old pandemic causes fishing to collapse???

What bollocks - the only thing I can agree on with Mr Habib is that Johnson sold fishing down the river to get his "deal" however what he overlooks is that the deal is the Brexit deal which is why fishing is fucked.

 

[Saddleworth2]

March 2020 to 31st December 2020 the pandemic rages and no-one in fishing or politics mentions that Covid-19 is impacting the fishing industry. Then suddenly - out of the blue - in 23 days a 10 month old pandemic causes fishing to collapse???

What bollocks - the only thing I can agree on with Mr Habib is that Johnson sold fishing down the river to get his "deal" however what he overlooks is that the deal is the Brexit deal which is why fishing is fucked.

I spoke to my fishmonger yesterday when I picked up my Halibut from the van. 'Ramsay, how is Brexit impacting you?'
Answer, 'Its not, we get all our fish off boats that service the UK market and that seems to be fine'.

Now wether the issues are still to feed through or wether the issues are 'just' export business thats impacted I don't know.

 

[BobKowalski]

It fed it mate, of course it did. If its hadn't been that, it would have been something else is my point.

You stated it had been simmering for decades, so equally it may have just continued simmering for another decade. Neither of us can say with certainty either way.

What we can say for certainty is that there was a trigger. We can also say with certainty that at the point he was moved to actual violence there was a divisive referendum with an anti-immigrant, anti-foreigner message, and ‘Britain First‘, independence from ‘foreign rule’ themes, themes that spoke strongly to this individual.

I guess it’s down to each of us to decide whether we are comfortable making the connection or not.

 

[west didsblue]

I spoke to my fishmonger yesterday when I picked up my Halibut from the van. 'Ramsay, how is Brexit impacting you?'
Answer, 'Its not, we get all our fish off boats that service the UK market and that seems to be fine'.

Now wether the issues are still to feed through or wether the issues are 'just' export business thats impacted I don't know.

There was no sea bass in Aldi yesterday. Can’t decide whether to blame Brexit.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

You stated it had been simmering for decades, so equally it may have just continued simmering for another decade. Neither of us can say with certainty either way.

What we can say for certainty is that there was a trigger. We can also say with certainty that at the point he was moved to actual violence there was a divisive referendum with an anti-immigrant, anti-foreigner message, and ‘Britain First‘, independence from ‘foreign rule’ themes, themes that spoke strongly to this individual.

I guess it’s down to each of us to decide whether we are comfortable making the connection or not.

Might as well blame Islam for Salman Abedi then. Or we can accept there are bad faith operators who preyed upon vulnerable, easily manipulated individuals.

 

[west didsblue]

Might as well blame Islam for Salman Abedi then. Or we can accept there are bad faith operators who preyed upon vulnerable, easily manipulated individuals.

Radical Islam was the motivator for Abedi whilst right wing Britain First rhetoric as espoused by some in the Brexit debate was a motivator for Mair.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Radical Islam was the motivator for Abedi whilst right wing Britain First rhetoric as espoused by some in the Brexit debate was a motivator for Mair.

Exactly, it's the unwelcome elements of each that are causing the pain.