Political relations between UK-EU

[joe123]

Serious question, do you find the EU’s posturing this week about vaccines morally acceptable?

That’s open to anyone on this threa.

I think it's a fair enough stance. They're behind the curve on vaccinations compared to us and the US and they feel AZ have broken their contract, so for me it's fair enough to start throwing their weight around. Whether it does them any favours or not is another thing, but using their clout to look after members is what you'd expect.

 

[Ban-jani]

It’s no longer our concern. All I know is that every time the EU has any difficulties in any area the Brexit fans will latch on to it as a comfort blanket to show that in spite of all the real difficulties importers, exporters, fishermen, farmers, small businesses and individuals are experiencing it provides justification for us leaving. It will become a regular event and will get boring very quickly.

I mean the irony here is hilarious.

That wasn’t my point at all though, I asked if you think their posturing about blocking vaccines was moral?

 

[Ban-jani]

I think it's a fair enough stance. They're behind the curve on vaccinations compared to us and the US and they feel AZ have broken their contract, so for me it's fair enough to start throwing their weight around. Whether it does them any favours or not is another thing, but using their clout to look after members is what you'd expect.

I appreciate your honesty but that, I think, sums up this place.

There’s not much change of objectivity here.

 

[Vic]

I mean the irony here is hilarious.

That wasn’t my point at all though, I asked if you think their posturing about blocking vaccines was moral?

We know it wasn't your point, which was distraction. "Posturing" is a bit of a giveaway.

 

[west didsblue]

I mean the irony here is hilarious.

That wasn’t my point at all though, I asked if you think their posturing about blocking vaccines was moral?

I know it wasn't your point. What I'm saying is that I don't know why anyone in this country would give a toss how the leadership of a trading bloc we have distanced ourselves from conducts themselves in relation to something that's nothing to do with us. Why don't you ask the question on the Covid thread where it's a little bit relevant?

 

[Saddleworth2]

Serious question, do you find the EU’s posturing this week about vaccines morally acceptable?

That’s open to anyone on this threa.

I can see the argument from all sides. The UK have acted faster than the EU regarding confirming and licensing the drug so why should its supply be reduced. The EU have a contractual agreement with AZ to supply a volume of drugs. Wether they are behind the UK or not shouldn't matter to them. AZ signed that contract. AZ will have planned supply of drugs based on outputs at each of their manufacturing plants. The one that was earmarked to supply the EU has some issues which has resulted in their stance.

So I guess the summary of all that is the argument is solely between AZ and the EU and really should not have any implications for the UK. The EU should not be talking about export controls as that would cause AZ to break contractual commitments with the UK.

Morally, every nation/group of nations is going to fight for what is best for its citizens, so you can understand why there is a stooshy. I think AZ needs to be put under pressure to resolve whatever the production issues are and look at ways of increasing supplies to the EU. Thats where the effort should go.

 

[meltonblue]

I can see the argument from all sides. The UK have acted faster than the EU regarding confirming and licensing the drug so why should its supply be reduced. The EU have a contractual agreement with AZ to supply a volume of drugs. Wether they are behind the UK or not shouldn't matter to them. AZ signed that contract. AZ will have planned supply of drugs based on outputs at each of their manufacturing plants. The one that was earmarked to supply the EU has some issues which has resulted in their stance.

So I guess the summary of all that is the argument is solely between AZ and the EU and really should not have any implications for the UK. The EU should not be talking about export controls as that would cause AZ to break contractual commitments with the UK.

Morally, every nation/group of nations is going to fight for what is best for its citizens, so you can understand why there is a stooshy. I think AZ needs to be put under pressure to resolve whatever the production issues are and look at ways of increasing supplies to the EU. Thats where the effort should go.

The caveat to that is we put in controls ourselves for vaccines produced in the UK, the only real difference is they’re playing it out in public now.

 

[jay_mcfc]

And vice versa...... £80 import bill on a £200 purchase from the Eu.....beware what you buy on Ebay and check any website to make sure it is a UK based company

Latest one I just heard was 15 euro bill for delivery of a jumper that his fucking Mum knitted for him!

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I mean the irony here is hilarious.

That wasn’t my point at all though, I asked if you think their posturing about blocking vaccines was moral?

Politicians don't do 'moral'. Expedience is more in their line.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I can see the argument from all sides. The UK have acted faster than the EU regarding confirming and licensing the drug so why should its supply be reduced. The EU have a contractual agreement with AZ to supply a volume of drugs. Wether they are behind the UK or not shouldn't matter to them. AZ signed that contract. AZ will have planned supply of drugs based on outputs at each of their manufacturing plants. The one that was earmarked to supply the EU has some issues which has resulted in their stance.

So I guess the summary of all that is the argument is solely between AZ and the EU and really should not have any implications for the UK. The EU should not be talking about export controls as that would cause AZ to break contractual commitments with the UK.

Morally, every nation/group of nations is going to fight for what is best for its citizens, so you can understand why there is a stooshy. I think AZ needs to be put under pressure to resolve whatever the production issues are and look at ways of increasing supplies to the EU. Thats where the effort should go.

AZ diverted production from EU plants to the UK last month when UK production had a glitch.
Those doses would be stockpiled in the EU if they hadn't, just as the UK had c. 20M doses stockpiled at New Year.

Is it more moral for the EU to ask a quid pro quo, or for the UK to ignore the net loss to the EU? It's a rhetorical question, and meaningless to bother "answering" without also considering each side's internal political forces. Also it is necessary to consider the effect on likely future cooperation of either side taking things to an extreme.

The EU haven't screwed up to have that happen, the UK haven't screwed up to make it happen, AZ have run into issues. The EU want AZ to come up with how they are going to resolve matters.

 

[metalblue]

I can see the argument from all sides. The UK have acted faster than the EU regarding confirming and licensing the drug so why should its supply be reduced. The EU have a contractual agreement with AZ to supply a volume of drugs. Wether they are behind the UK or not shouldn't matter to them. AZ signed that contract. AZ will have planned supply of drugs based on outputs at each of their manufacturing plants. The one that was earmarked to supply the EU has some issues which has resulted in their stance.

So I guess the summary of all that is the argument is solely between AZ and the EU and really should not have any implications for the UK. The EU should not be talking about export controls as that would cause AZ to break contractual commitments with the UK.

Morally, every nation/group of nations is going to fight for what is best for its citizens, so you can understand why there is a stooshy. I think AZ needs to be put under pressure to resolve whatever the production issues are and look at ways of increasing supplies to the EU. Thats where the effort should go.

But the very reason the EU are behind is because their production chain is 3 months behind the UK and is suffering teething problems. And the UK has always maintained UK production for UK first, I might be wrong but I don’t think anything the EU could do would stop the UK getting its order as expected as AZ deliberately set up autonomous domestic production capabilities (I imagine for logistical reasons rather than any foresight that the EU might become cuntish).

 

[Saddleworth2]

AZ diverted production from EU plants to the UK last month when UK production had a glitch.
Those doses would be stockpiled in the EU if they hadn't, just as the UK had c. 20M doses stockpiled at New Year.

Is it more moral for the EU to ask a quid pro quo, or for the UK to ignore the net loss to the EU? It's a rhetorical question, and meaningless to bother "answering" without also considering each side's internal political forces. Also it is necessary to consider the effect on likely future cooperation of either side taking things to an extreme.

The EU haven't screwed up to have that happen, the UK haven't screwed up to make it happen, AZ have run into issues. The EU want AZ to come up with how they are going to resolve matters.

Ok, I didn't know that. I guess we both agree though that in the first instance this is a EU/AZ conversation.

 

[Ban-jani]

Politicians don't do 'moral'. Expedience is more in their line.

That’s a good point to be fair

 

[journolud]

Serious question, do you find the EU’s posturing this week about vaccines morally acceptable?

That’s open to anyone on this threa.

On the face of it no but I haven’t had time to explore the detail. I suspect there is a bit more to it than posturing

 

[Ban-jani]

On the face of it no but I haven’t had time to explore the detail. I suspect there is a bit more to it than posturing

Imo it seems like they are acting through emotion, as the AZ CEO says. They delayed and delayed and now the UK and US are moving so far ahead of them they are lashing out.

The problem is if they do what they say they will, then it will cost UK lives and that will pretty much end any positive views the UK public have towards them.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Astra Zeneca have pulled out of the meeting with the Eu today.

 

[meltonblue]

On the face of it no but I haven’t had time to explore the detail. I suspect there is a bit more to it than posturing

Yep, it’s more about longer term objectives.

 

[BobKowalski]

I mean the irony here is hilarious.

That wasn’t my point at all though, I asked if you think their posturing about blocking vaccines was moral?

The UK already has a blocking policy. We insisted on UK first, the EU didn‘t. In future they likely will. I don’t have an issue with a Govt prioritising the health of its own citizens, nor the EU doing similar.

It is in a sense short sighted as for this to work everyone needs the vaccine, but when push comes to shove, Govts are going to look after the people that elect them.

We’ve had supply issues which is why we have gone the one shot route and delayed the second shot needed for full immunity, again a sensible strategy when there are supply issues and the science says it isn’t a problem, but a EU first approach may impact us later if we hit supply or other snags.

Europe needs to beef up production and distribution, Sanofi have agreed to manufacture the Pfizer jab. Johnson and Johnson have their ‘one shot’ jab waiting in the wings. It’s a production and logistics problem which in time will be solved. The good news is we have several vaccines and the problems while difficult are not insurmountable.

 

[west didsblue]

Imo it seems like they are acting through emotion, as the AZ CEO says. They delayed and delayed and now the UK and US are moving so far ahead of them they are lashing out.

The problem is if they do what they say they will, then it will cost UK lives and that will pretty much end any positive views the UK public have towards them.

Why would anything the EU do cost UK lives?
AZ vaccine production for us is here in the UK. There's nothing the EU can do about diverting those supplies to them. The problem is at their Belgian plant.

 

[hgblue]

Imo it seems like they are acting through emotion, as the AZ CEO says. They delayed and delayed and now the UK and US are moving so far ahead of them they are lashing out.

The problem is if they do what they say they will, then it will cost UK lives and that will pretty much end any positive views the UK public have towards them.

The usual suspects will be on here blaming Brexit ;).