The Super League | FA + PL: New Charter & Fines | UEFA: Settlement

[Cobwebcat]

Why did Soriano/City wait so long to issue an apology? I mean, the apology wasn't exactly a huge, self-flagellating screed that would have taken 10 hours to compose. It was a 30-minute job. @Ric, @tolmie's hairdoo, @BillyShears - any theories?

I can have a reasonable guess at this.

Everything is done for a reason. At the moment City and Chelsea aren’t getting as much bad PR as the founders plus Spurs. We are partially seen as helping the collapse of a hated regime.

Given that the others have all publicly apologised to the World, the perception is that they are the baddies.

However, even though we got great publicity from The Daily Mail article and UEFA, City still realised they had to say something to us. So instead of putting the apology out to the World and ruining the PR they went to the trouble of sending emails to everyone on their database.

Now a lot of the paying City fans have their apology and we are still not entirely grouped with the baddies.

The apology itself wasn’t emotional just businesslike as they know nobody will be talking about it in a couple of weeks.

As I’ve said before with hindsight we really messed up. What we did afterwards was an exercise in PR that was so good even I believed we were the heroes for a bit. We have also come out of this with credit in the bank with UEFA and our main club enemies are, for the moment, politically irrelevant and on the back foot.

 

[Cobwebcat]

genuine question .. if Barca need a vote to come out why not a vote to go in? or if they still need a vote to go in are they not technically out ?

Barca put a clause in their contract saying they were in unless the Barca fans subsequently voted them out.So they made sure they wouldn’t miss out if it went ahead but had a get out if it didn’t without any fine. Quick thinking.

Juventus
Real Madrid
Arsenal
United
Liverpool

These are the clubs that came up with this the rest had to quickly decide.

 

[Nails]

I can have a reasonable guess at this.

Everything is done for a reason. At the moment City and Chelsea aren’t getting as much bad PR as the founders plus Spurs. We are partially seen as helping the collapse of a hated regime.

Given that the others have all publicly apologised to the World, the perception is that they are the baddies.

However, even though we got great publicity from The Daily Mail article and UEFA, City still realised they had to say something to us. So instead of putting the apology out to the World and ruining the PR they went to the trouble of sending emails to everyone on their database.

Now a lot of the paying City fans have their apology and we are still not entirely grouped with the baddies.

The apology itself wasn’t emotional just businesslike as they know nobody will be talking about it in a couple of weeks.

As I’ve said before with hindsight we really messed up. What we did afterwards was an exercise in PR that was so good even I believed we were the heroes for a bit. We have also come out of this with credit in the bank with UEFA and our main club enemies are, for the moment, politically irrelevant and on the back foot.

So you think it was an intentional delay in order to milk the 'positive' PR for as long as possible. Interesting take.

 

[BlueDejong]

Not all of them were equal partners. Executives at Manchester City and Chelsea, for example, had only learned on Friday that the plan was in motion. They had been told that they had no more than a day or so to decide whether they were in or out. Either way, they were warned, the train was leaving the station.

Via NY times

How fuck...

 

[Centurions]

Even the down payments weren't equal. I've got the full details somewhere but there were tiers within the founding 15. The top 4 or 6 clubs getting by far the biggest chunk :)

I saw somewhere that Real Madrid & Barcelona were both getting an additional £60million each as originators? No idea whether that's true or not mind as that was the craziest 72 hours I've ever seen.

 

[Cobwebcat]

So you think it was an intentional delay in order to milk the 'positive' PR for as long as possible. Interesting take.

Yes and the fact that it would take longer to organise than a quick video or something on the website.

 

[Newman Noggs]

The point is that we wouldn't have been aware of the full details until we signed that letter of intent, at which point we probably saw the full contract. And something I have heard is that the picture initially presented was not the one in the contract.

Perez is hardly going to say "Well we didn't really want them but were told they had to be in for us to get the money. But we had no intention of treating them as equals so naturally they fucked off" is he?

Obviously I have no idea what the full contract terms were but we do know there was a proposal to limit wages and net transfers to 55% of income. So if you're not getting the same income as, say, United, your 55% is worth less and straight away you're a second tier club. We also know that the 5 clubs invited each season wouldn't be getting anything like what the founder clubs were promised.

So we get sold a promise of guaranteed media revenue of, say, £350m a year minimum from this, just for media revenue. Plus a similar down-payment. But that only holds good for 2 or 4 years, at which point the real founder clubs can change the formula while we have no say but are bound in by our contract. So we say thanks, but no thanks.

100% agree with this. That's why I, not only have no criticism of our owners, but would have been astonished if they'd just said "no, not interested"

 

[Cobwebcat]

I saw somewhere that Real Madrid & Barcelona were both getting an additional £60million each as originators? No idea whether that's true or not mind as that was the craziest 72 hours I've ever seen.

I’m not sure Barca were originators.

Leadership​

The following football executives had been confirmed as the leaders of the organisation when the launch was announced.[2][41]

Position	Name	Nationality	Other positions
Chairman	Florentino Pérez	Spain	President of Real Madrid
Vice-chairman	Andrea Agnelli	Italy	Chairman of Juventus
Vice-chairman	Joel Glazer	United States	Co-chairman of Manchester United
Vice-chairman	John W. Henry	United States	Owner of Liverpool
Vice-chairman	Stan Kroenke	United States	Owner of Arsenal

These teams were the culprits the rest were willing or confused participants with limited time to make a decision.

 

[BillyShears]

Why did Soriano/City wait so long to issue an apology? I mean, the apology wasn't exactly a huge, self-flagellating screed that would have taken 10 hours to compose. It was a 30-minute job. @Ric, @tolmie's hairdoo, @BillyShears - any theories?

Probably because the public apology was the least pressing thing for them when the league began to collapse.

From what I understand Ceferin and City spoke over the weekend prior to the Super League story leaking. We can only speculate as to what was said, but I suspect that if Perez is saying that City weren't committed, and City were talking to UEFA after Agnelli went dark, then we were clearly playing both sides.

So Monday I imagine their focus was politics at UEFA and turning the knife on the ringleaders of the ESL plan. The public statement was always going to be weak unless Khaldoon did a video.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

100% agree with this. That's why I, not only have no criticism of our owners, but would have been astonished if they'd just said "no, not interested"

I'd criticise them.

I'd assumed from the little I'd heard up to now that this was some sort of clever masterplan to torpedo the whole the thing so was feeling quite kind towards them, despite everything that went on. But it seems going in was pure self-interest and, because the money wasn't as much as we thought we were getting or wanted, we came out.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Great to be back in the fold. Well done those bastions of impartial journalism, sky, talksport the bbc etc. Good ol Murdoch, finger on the pulse as ever, it's not like there was a vested interest at stake. Anyway great to be back in the football family. Jumpers for goal posts, millions and millions for grass root footie. I'm sure the likes of the PL and UEFA will have our backs. I'm certain they'll drop their vendettas. As soon as I saw those istree club fans tying banners to their gates I was with them, I knew fan power would win......er something.
From now on I'll be sure to get my public opinion from Gary Neville, Jordan Henderson, Stephen Warnock, Jim White, Gary Lineker, Spit, et al. You just know they have no ulterior motive. Honest as the day is long those lads.
Can't wait to get back into the ground. Rosettes and rattles!
Viva fan power.
Opportunity lost with a knee-jerk reaction and without knowing the full facts? Don't make me laugh. No way we"ll rue this.

 

[bluemanchester]

genuine question .. if Barca need a vote to come out why not a vote to go in? or if they still need a vote to go in are they not technically out ?

You mean like the hokey cokey ;-)

 

[Newman Noggs]

I'd criticise them.

I'd assumed from the little I'd heard up to now that this was some sort of clever masterplan to torpedo the whole the thing so was feeling quite kind towards them, despite everything that went on. But it seems going in was pure self-interest and, because the money wasn't as much as we thought we were getting or wanted, we came out.

As regards self-interest, given what they have tried, and are still trying to do to us, I'm in the camp that thinks that we have no friends and should do what's right for us. But I admit that the idealistic football purist in me has been laid to rest by the FFP shenanigans.

You speculate that "because the money wasn't as much as we thought we were getting or wanted, we pulled out". I'd speculate that it was more to do with the terms and conditions in the final draft, ie the small print. Doubtless it will come out in the sportswash.

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

Given that they joined without the fans vote I can't see why they'd need it to withdraw.

Edit: Aren't Juventus still (technically) in the ESL as well?

just looked believe they are yes

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

Even the down payments weren't equal. I've got the full details somewhere but there were tiers within the founding 15. The top 4 or 6 clubs getting by far the biggest chunk :)

post it please

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

As regards self-interest, given what they have tried, and are still trying to do to us, I'm in the camp that thinks that we have no friends and should do what's right for us. But I admit that the idealistic football purist in me has been laid to rest by the FFP shenanigans.

You speculate that "because the money wasn't as much as we thought we were getting or wanted, we pulled out". I'd speculate that it was more to do with the terms and conditions in the final draft, ie the small print. Doubtless it will come out in the sportswash.

I agree with that. I'd say it was money, voting rights and general control issues. Ultimately the risk was probably too great.

I feel the same. The football purist in me has definitely been affected by this, FFP machination, VAR, etc. I watched Wednesday's game and while it was still City, it was like watching a TV drama rather than the club I'm so emotionally invested in.

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

genuine question .. if Barca need a vote to come out why not a vote to go in? or if they still need a vote to go in are they not technically out ?

not too sure

 

[Brightwell Bros.]

I agree with that. I'd say it was money, voting rights and general control issues. Ultimately the risk was probably too great.

I feel the same. The football purist in me has definitely been affected by this, FFP machination, VAR, etc. I watched Wednesday's game and while it was still City, it was like watching a TV drama rather than the club I'm so emotionally invested in.

That captures how it felt for me as well. I'll still watch, but I'm a legacy fan for an entertainment product, and I think that's how I'll start seeing it now.

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

Probably because the public apology was the least pressing thing for them when the league began to collapse.

From what I understand Ceferin and City spoke over the weekend prior to the Super League story leaking. We can only speculate as to what was said, but I suspect that if Perez is saying that City weren't committed, and City were talking to UEFA after Agnelli went dark, then we were clearly playing both sides.

So Monday I imagine their focus was politics at UEFA and turning the knife on the ringleaders of the ESL plan. The public statement was always going to be weak unless Khaldoon did a video.

has this been said by people at the club?

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I'd criticise them.

I'd assumed from the little I'd heard up to now that this was some sort of clever masterplan to torpedo the whole the thing so was feeling quite kind towards them, despite everything that went on. But it seems going in was pure self-interest and, because the money wasn't as much as we thought we were getting or wanted, we came out.

Everything our owners, and every other club owners, do is in pure self-interest, PB. Whether that be financial or public relations. I'm amazed that so many of our fans had the impression that they were just some kind of generous benefactors.

My belief is that they felt that they had no choice but to ensure that they weren't left out of this move when it was painted as a fait accomplis. As soon as they saw the appalling PR, and the fact that Bayern said no, they panicked and cut loose. I've no problem with any of that. The big mistake they made was not seeing the backlash coming and refusing to join in the first place but of course that would have been a massive gamble - a bigger one for City than Bayern who as holders pretty much knew that this could not go ahead without them. Our owner has been sidelined and attacked for so long and from so many places that I can understand that the threat of being outside "the elite" forever pushed him into this.