Haha indeed. Am more curious as to the idea of whether there may be a difference in approaching religion (life, education etc?)with a foundation in breath/sound or with fundamentals of intellectual understanding, than the technical stuff he wrote.And, given that breath is fairly universal, and not limited to religion, maybe it can inspire all areas of life even more. And if that includes Dave Allen like sense of humour, then great. World would be a happier place I reckon.
Religion
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Alan Harper's Tash
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This is the same for me. Being married to a CofE vicar, I can see the good and bad things that the church provides.
I’m a don’t care agnostic but am grateful that “the Lord“ gives us a house and pays our council tax.
My wife and I have a pact where we don’t try to instil our beliefs on each other.
Bloody hell, that use a good deal. You get a house and council tax paid but only work one day a week. Oh and Christmas eve.
Alan Harper's Tash
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Fun fact is that Sunday is her second lightest day, workwise!
Marklr
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I agree. To a degree. haha. Thing is...we've had a few thousand years of having this belief FORCED onto us as a whole. As children, we were told that if we didn't believe and obey the bible, we'd suffer in Hell for eternity. That's basically child abuse. Mental blackmail.
Different times now though ...in this country at least. They still do all that shit in the US, though.
No, the Arabs at the time of Muhammad(saw) were not traveling to mainland Africa to trade slaves at the time. It's easy to say today slavery is evil, immoral etc. , yet when I asked you "Are you more moral than Jesus(as), Paul, Aristotle, Plato etc.. ", you evaded the question. Perhaps you already know answering this question from a historical perspective is different. Even if you answer 'Yes', I'm sure if you lived in their times, your views (or mine) on slavery wouldn't be the same as it is today.
I grew up in a non-religious family. Didn’t go to a religious school - yes , there was a daily assembly with maybe a hymn sung and a weekly re class but that seems far outweighed by classes in science, maths, languages, even pe/sport. In terms of social groups, I remember one or two families that would maybe call themselves christian - but it hardly ever - if at all - came up in conversations, let alone feeling like it was something that was being forced on me. So, in that sense, it feels like I had a very different experience from you. And your experience doesn’t sound so great, and is a lot different from how I would understand the essence of the message of ‘God.’ But I wouldn’t want to force that idea on you. And , even if I did try to force it and you let me do so, wouldn‘t life be worse for both you and I? Less inspiring? Makes no sense, for me. But sharing/exploring ‘the divine’ with those that wish to…yeah, there can be space for that too, in my books at least.
Quite right too, evensong or City on the tele, no contest let them purge their own sins.
Alan Harper's Tash
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Evensong is quite rare these days, so she’s generally done by 2pm.
7:30 start, mind.
What most people don’t realise is that their role as priest in charge at a church normally comes with having to be a school governor.
My wife is a governor at 3 schools. That eats up time.
Marklr
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Christianity has been forced on us for a long time...even in my life. My parents sent me to church and sunday school. As I say, not so much today, but even as recent as the 70s and 80s children were made to believe. In fact...still today with kids being sent to Catholic schools. I went to a normal primary school...they made us sing hymns, pray and learn bible stories as if it was important.
Oh and the the other perks, all those crisps and free wine. Does she occasionally sneak in cheese and onion ones rather than boring ready salted ?
Alan Harper's Tash
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No and she keeps them locked away, so I can’t replace them with ghost chilli poppadoms.
Ha ha that would he worth watching
I can sympathize with that. And yet I don’t really find that christianity was something that was forced on me. I can agree that there is a conversation to be had re the nature of oppression in any form. How it would appear that those that have been oppressed can react by become oppressors themselves, yet in a way that could be said to be different from true liberation. So how to be free - yes I can be with that. But then that freedom may be different for you or I or another - might go about it different ways too.
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I'm no cynic but...
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They can try for all they are worth but there isn't one iota of evidence of any creation being brought about by any higher being. If they try to convince you on the basis that there was a creative being, who we shall call God, just ask them who or what created this god. They can't and may reply that God was always there but if they do that you may respond by suggesting that maybe the universe itself was always there instead.
Another perspective on how religion may look at life.
“In the Tantric cosmology, the whole universe is perceived as being created, penetrated and sustained by two fundamental forces, which are permanently in a perfect, indestructible union. These forces or universal aspects are called Shiva and Shakti.
The tradition has associated to these principles a form, respectively that of a masculine deity and that of a feminine one. Accordingly, Lord Shiva represents the constitutive elements of the universe, while Shakti is the dynamic potency, which makes these elements come to life and act.
From a metaphysical point of view, the divine couple Shiva-Shakti corresponds to two essential aspects of the One: the masculine principle, which represents the abiding aspect of God, and the feminine principle, which represents Its Energy, the Force which acts in the manifested world and life itself.”
www.templepurohit.com
“In the Tantric cosmology, the whole universe is perceived as being created, penetrated and sustained by two fundamental forces, which are permanently in a perfect, indestructible union. These forces or universal aspects are called Shiva and Shakti.
The tradition has associated to these principles a form, respectively that of a masculine deity and that of a feminine one. Accordingly, Lord Shiva represents the constitutive elements of the universe, while Shakti is the dynamic potency, which makes these elements come to life and act.
From a metaphysical point of view, the divine couple Shiva-Shakti corresponds to two essential aspects of the One: the masculine principle, which represents the abiding aspect of God, and the feminine principle, which represents Its Energy, the Force which acts in the manifested world and life itself.”
Shiva and Shakti - The Divine Union of Consciousness and Energy
Shiva and Shakti corresponds to two essential aspects of the One: the masculine principle, which represents the abiding aspect of God, and the feminine principle, which represents Its Energy, the Force which acts in the manifested world and life itself.
www.templepurohit.com
paulsimpson
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Atheists get very angry whenever biblical
Christianity is even mentioned . Why do they care about something that for them doesn’t exist? Why get all emotional and annoyed if there's no ultimate purpose to life and no ultimate meaning to existence? Why do atheists get so aggressive in going against biblical Christianity , particularly the Torah, the first 5 books which is the Jewish portion of the Scriptures? Why does it chap their hide? For example, when Ken Ham was building a creation museum and later on , an ark , in Kentucky atheists went berserk and protested at the facility But why did they do that? But what is it to them if Christians build a huge boat (whose precise dimensions are recorded in the book of Genesis) to announce the Christian message? After all, thousands of secular museums all over the world repeatedly announce their type of atheistic religion. No one really protests those. Government schools throughout the world dogmatise hundreds of millions of people that they must adhere to naturalism which is atheism. So why do atheists get so upset with a minority group of Judeo Christianity?
When secularist , atheist , naturalists are asked where does matter come from they often answer that it is a mystery or it has yet to be discovered. Many often point to an unproven hypothetical explosion from nothing, for no reason whatsoever, a great cosmic miracle myth. An irrational worldview. Others say they have joy in finding out answers to such questions just as long as it is not a supreme personal , timeless, spaceless being.
If we think of the the love of discovery and why it would matter from an atheist viewpoint, life is the result of natural processes and there is no biblical God. So whenever atheists die they won’t even know they ever existed or knew anything.Then, when others who know them die, they won’t know they ever knew them, either.
In the end , from their worldview of naturalism, the whole universe will die a heat death and no one will ever know they ever existed. Because there's no ultimate purpose or meaning to life. That's their view. So what is the purpose of this “ We don't know but we love to discover” about reality? On their worldview, the naturalistic view of life is ultimately purposeless and meaningless. Even knowledge ( science) and even a superficial discovery of sorts becomes useless and pointless.
What about famous atheist Richard Dawkins? Although he has become quieter of late why did he spend so much time railing against Someone (i.e. God) he doesn’t even believe exists? Why is he fighting against biblical Christianity? In an ultimately purposeless and utterly meaningless existence, what is it to him if people believe in the Christ of the Bible and His account of creation in Genesis? Why get annoyed against Him when, from his viewpoint no one will ultimately know they ever existed? Annihilationism is the ultimate end for the atheist. They claim that they care about people and argue that believing in creation is harmful to society but they are generally pro choice killing pre borns in the womb. Surely that's harmful to those babies.
So, something else is going on. They aren’t sticking up for the truth, but suppressing it. The way that atheists are so eaten up with going against against biblical Christianity, actually is a confirmation , a thumbs up to the truth of God’s Word.
In Romans 1 we read that God has given man the ability to know that He exists, so that if anyone refuses the God of the Bible, they have no excuse: “What may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse” (Romans 1:19–20).
God’s revelation in the Bible also makes it clear that even when atheists use words like right , wrong , good and bad it is because God has given man a conscience—God’s law is written in our hearts: “For when Gentiles (non Jews) who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law . . . show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness” (Romans 2:14–15).
In Genesis 3:5 the fact of temptation given to Adam and Eve was that they could “be like God.” Because we ourselves failed to resist this temptation in Adam (in Adam we sinned), in a certain sense we want to be our own god. Our depraved nature doesn’t want to submit to God who created us and owns us - we want to make our own rules. Paul's letter to the Romans chapter 1 also states that because of man’s controlling, bullying heart, fallen , spiritually dead humanity will “suppress the truth in unrighteousness” (Romans 1:18) so those who aggressively oppose biblical Christianity, are closing their ears and shutting their eyes are actually saying, “I will Not yield to the God who created me. I will Not acknowledge that God is the creator. I will Not accept that I’m a sinner in need of salvation. I write my own rules of morality and so I must oppose anything that goads my conscience and I vehemently suppress the truth
to justify my own truth .”
Why did God create man so that he might sin? Pure freedom. Determined creatures are robots.
But Christ Jesus ( Yeshua) has the answer to all the deepest questions of life as the God-man, His death and Resurrection, and the gift of salvation that He offers can't be beaten.
All of us sin. If we have ever lied ;stolen anything; lusted in our hearts( Jesus said that if you look at a woman with lust you've already committed adultery with her in your heart) ; used God's name in a vain ,useless way as a curse word ( blasphemy); got angry with rage against someone as it is akin to murder as is seen in Matthew 5 " You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire".)
So we have all gone astray at some point. But He has taken all our sins on to Himself. That's the substitutionary atonement, the sacrifice for sins, the blame he takes for all our transgressions as if He actually did the sin not us. Our sins are on Him!
This is the wonderful act of love. Just because it's a story tinged with Jewish sacrificial elements doesn't make it untrue. All those animal sacrifices in the Temple area were not efficacious after Jesus died. There was no need for animal sacrifice anymore. He died in our place. We deserve a lost eternity but we need not go there if we believe He is the one who got punished for every single bad act we ever did, even the bad acts we may do today and those in the future. He's got it all covered. Personal confession (repentance) and acceptance of this brings an absolutely clean new life. His resurrection proves that God the Father vindicated Him and lives forevermore to mediate for us.
In 2 Peter 3:5, we are told that those who mock and ridicule God ( Christ) as creator, the historical Flood, and coming judgment by fire are “willingly ignorant.” This means it is an intentional act on their part to not believe, because they don’t want to. They shut their eyes and stop their ears and often try to silence and bully others, refusing to believe truth, the real truth, suppressing it. They really do care about God though. They are in defiance trying to justify their rebellion against the truth .They don’t want to admit that they are in need of salvation because a God would demand accountability and they need to be in control. Sin is loved too much to give up.
Christianity is even mentioned . Why do they care about something that for them doesn’t exist? Why get all emotional and annoyed if there's no ultimate purpose to life and no ultimate meaning to existence? Why do atheists get so aggressive in going against biblical Christianity , particularly the Torah, the first 5 books which is the Jewish portion of the Scriptures? Why does it chap their hide? For example, when Ken Ham was building a creation museum and later on , an ark , in Kentucky atheists went berserk and protested at the facility But why did they do that? But what is it to them if Christians build a huge boat (whose precise dimensions are recorded in the book of Genesis) to announce the Christian message? After all, thousands of secular museums all over the world repeatedly announce their type of atheistic religion. No one really protests those. Government schools throughout the world dogmatise hundreds of millions of people that they must adhere to naturalism which is atheism. So why do atheists get so upset with a minority group of Judeo Christianity?
When secularist , atheist , naturalists are asked where does matter come from they often answer that it is a mystery or it has yet to be discovered. Many often point to an unproven hypothetical explosion from nothing, for no reason whatsoever, a great cosmic miracle myth. An irrational worldview. Others say they have joy in finding out answers to such questions just as long as it is not a supreme personal , timeless, spaceless being.
If we think of the the love of discovery and why it would matter from an atheist viewpoint, life is the result of natural processes and there is no biblical God. So whenever atheists die they won’t even know they ever existed or knew anything.Then, when others who know them die, they won’t know they ever knew them, either.
In the end , from their worldview of naturalism, the whole universe will die a heat death and no one will ever know they ever existed. Because there's no ultimate purpose or meaning to life. That's their view. So what is the purpose of this “ We don't know but we love to discover” about reality? On their worldview, the naturalistic view of life is ultimately purposeless and meaningless. Even knowledge ( science) and even a superficial discovery of sorts becomes useless and pointless.
What about famous atheist Richard Dawkins? Although he has become quieter of late why did he spend so much time railing against Someone (i.e. God) he doesn’t even believe exists? Why is he fighting against biblical Christianity? In an ultimately purposeless and utterly meaningless existence, what is it to him if people believe in the Christ of the Bible and His account of creation in Genesis? Why get annoyed against Him when, from his viewpoint no one will ultimately know they ever existed? Annihilationism is the ultimate end for the atheist. They claim that they care about people and argue that believing in creation is harmful to society but they are generally pro choice killing pre borns in the womb. Surely that's harmful to those babies.
So, something else is going on. They aren’t sticking up for the truth, but suppressing it. The way that atheists are so eaten up with going against against biblical Christianity, actually is a confirmation , a thumbs up to the truth of God’s Word.
In Romans 1 we read that God has given man the ability to know that He exists, so that if anyone refuses the God of the Bible, they have no excuse: “What may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse” (Romans 1:19–20).
God’s revelation in the Bible also makes it clear that even when atheists use words like right , wrong , good and bad it is because God has given man a conscience—God’s law is written in our hearts: “For when Gentiles (non Jews) who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law . . . show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness” (Romans 2:14–15).
In Genesis 3:5 the fact of temptation given to Adam and Eve was that they could “be like God.” Because we ourselves failed to resist this temptation in Adam (in Adam we sinned), in a certain sense we want to be our own god. Our depraved nature doesn’t want to submit to God who created us and owns us - we want to make our own rules. Paul's letter to the Romans chapter 1 also states that because of man’s controlling, bullying heart, fallen , spiritually dead humanity will “suppress the truth in unrighteousness” (Romans 1:18) so those who aggressively oppose biblical Christianity, are closing their ears and shutting their eyes are actually saying, “I will Not yield to the God who created me. I will Not acknowledge that God is the creator. I will Not accept that I’m a sinner in need of salvation. I write my own rules of morality and so I must oppose anything that goads my conscience and I vehemently suppress the truth
to justify my own truth .”
Why did God create man so that he might sin? Pure freedom. Determined creatures are robots.
But Christ Jesus ( Yeshua) has the answer to all the deepest questions of life as the God-man, His death and Resurrection, and the gift of salvation that He offers can't be beaten.
All of us sin. If we have ever lied ;stolen anything; lusted in our hearts( Jesus said that if you look at a woman with lust you've already committed adultery with her in your heart) ; used God's name in a vain ,useless way as a curse word ( blasphemy); got angry with rage against someone as it is akin to murder as is seen in Matthew 5 " You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire".)
So we have all gone astray at some point. But He has taken all our sins on to Himself. That's the substitutionary atonement, the sacrifice for sins, the blame he takes for all our transgressions as if He actually did the sin not us. Our sins are on Him!
This is the wonderful act of love. Just because it's a story tinged with Jewish sacrificial elements doesn't make it untrue. All those animal sacrifices in the Temple area were not efficacious after Jesus died. There was no need for animal sacrifice anymore. He died in our place. We deserve a lost eternity but we need not go there if we believe He is the one who got punished for every single bad act we ever did, even the bad acts we may do today and those in the future. He's got it all covered. Personal confession (repentance) and acceptance of this brings an absolutely clean new life. His resurrection proves that God the Father vindicated Him and lives forevermore to mediate for us.
In 2 Peter 3:5, we are told that those who mock and ridicule God ( Christ) as creator, the historical Flood, and coming judgment by fire are “willingly ignorant.” This means it is an intentional act on their part to not believe, because they don’t want to. They shut their eyes and stop their ears and often try to silence and bully others, refusing to believe truth, the real truth, suppressing it. They really do care about God though. They are in defiance trying to justify their rebellion against the truth .They don’t want to admit that they are in need of salvation because a God would demand accountability and they need to be in control. Sin is loved too much to give up.
To use the Ark story, and then additionaly say Ken Ham’s one is precisely the same dimensions… I Stopped reading at that point.
the logistics of getting 2x every creature from all the world, and then with a population of nearly zero, getting them all back, is obviously impossible, let alone fitting into a tiny (compared to required) boat
the logistics of getting 2x every creature from all the world, and then with a population of nearly zero, getting them all back, is obviously impossible, let alone fitting into a tiny (compared to required) boat
I'm no cynic but...
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Countless millions have died in the name of religion. One religion versus another. That alone should be a warning signal.
Marklr
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Because many of us had Christianity forced upon us as children. Most atheists don't care, though...you're only talking to the ones that WANT to debate. It's not about getting angry. I just don't get how you can worship and make excuses for anything that DEMANDS worship after killing millions of innocent children. A god that endorsed slavery, which actually lead to millions of people being enslaved.
Do you believe it is ok to own another human?