F1 Season 2021

It’s actually so scum what happened yesterday, manufacturing a one lap shootout to decide the title at the expense of throwing out any credibility along with the rule book.
 
Brightwell’s left peg said:
My take, rightly or wrongly, is It was obvious early in the manoeuvre that Verstappen had the advantage. Hamilton was forced off track because he didn’t cede the advantage and tried to regain it on the outside. If Verstappen locks that off, then that to me is good driving?
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The block pass ,used all the time in motorcycle racing.stop your rival making the corner.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
WADR, I think you’ve missed a big chunk of what happened and conflated the strategies.

Lewis was kept out on the hard tires because he would have given up track position to Verstappen if he had pitted.

This is a known fact and was told to him by Bono.

Indeed, Bono also told him the two possible scenarios…

1) No lapped car overtake, which put enough time and distance between Lewis and Max, even with Max on the softs for the last lap, or

2) Let all the lapped cars undertake the Safety Car, but finish under a yellow flag, because there was simply not enough time (an extra lap) to go racing again.

Those were THE ONLY TWO OUTCOMES, and Mercedes’ strategy had them both covered, REGARDLESS OF TIRES!

The problems were, at a minimum, threefold:

1) Race Control TOLD the teams there would be no overtaking by the lapped cars. This cemented the idea that Lewis would have multiple cars between him and Max IF they were able to clear Latifi’s car and debris in time.

2) Race Control, after being told by Red Bull’s Horner that he just needed ONE RACING LAP (remember that from an earlier race GIVEN to Verstappen on the rain out?!), CHANGED THEIR MIND to allow lapped cars through past the Safety Car.

3) They ONLY allowed it for the cars that Hamilton had recently overtaken and that Verstappen had lost places to because of his tire change. In short, it wasn’t a 14 second “penalty” tire change, it was a FREE TIRE CHANGE AND it removed every car in his way.

Those are the minimum problems. However, even beyond that, when the Safety Car left the track, it’s up to the race leader to determine when they start racing again. Until then, ALL other cars have to stay behind the leader, just as they have to behind the Safety Car. Max didn’t!

Multiple times, Hamilton slowed to a crawl, as he’s allowed to, in an attempt to gain some advantage, but Verstappen was pulled ALONGSIDE AND SOMETIMES AHEAD when the rules clearly state it is verboten.

That appeal was turned down by the Stewards, as they said Hamilton was braking and accelerating. Huh???

There is almost nothing ANYONE can tell me that will convince me that Masi was not pressured (internally and/or externally) into making a horribly flawed decision to change the rules at the most important time of the most important race of the entire World Championship season.

None of that has a damned thing to do with Hamilton being on old hard tires versus new soft tires…unless you believe that Masi was completely cognizant of that fact, which was WHY he did what he did.

I find it impossible to believe he was not acutely aware of the respective drivers’ strategic positions and, by his hand, he placed a thumb on the scale of this Championship.

Masi should not be the Race Director next season, but the FIA would be admitting their own failure by removing him, so it’s kinda like PGMOL! They’re fucked!
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Couldn't have put it any better myself.

Mercedes had every legitimate winning option covered and it took a completely illegitimate option to rob them of the drivers World Championship.
 
Bluemoon dan said:
Surely they must have had time though? The 4 they did let past were clear in no time at all. The others can't have taken more than another corner or two to overtake. Think how slowly Lewis was going in the last half of his lap.
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The problem with that is that they also broke another rule. The safety car is suppose to go in a lap after, as the overlapped cars that passed have to rejoin the back of the group.

The FIA basically chose an illegal and unsafe option to restart the race and they've covered themselves with the race director can do what he wants.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
WADR, I think you’ve missed a big chunk of what happened and conflated the strategies.

Lewis was kept out on the hard tires because he would have given up track position to Verstappen if he had pitted.

This is a known fact and was told to him by Bono.

Indeed, Bono also told him the two possible scenarios…

1) No lapped car overtake, which put enough time and distance between Lewis and Max, even with Max on the softs for the last lap, or

2) Let all the lapped cars undertake the Safety Car, but finish under a yellow flag, because there was simply not enough time (an extra lap) to go racing again.

Those were THE ONLY TWO OUTCOMES, and Mercedes’ strategy had them both covered, REGARDLESS OF TIRES!

The problems were, at a minimum, threefold:

1) Race Control TOLD the teams there would be no overtaking by the lapped cars. This cemented the idea that Lewis would have multiple cars between him and Max IF they were able to clear Latifi’s car and debris in time.

2) Race Control, after being told by Red Bull’s Horner that he just needed ONE RACING LAP (remember that from an earlier race GIVEN to Verstappen on the rain out?!), CHANGED THEIR MIND to allow lapped cars through past the Safety Car.

3) They ONLY allowed it for the cars that Hamilton had recently overtaken and that Verstappen had lost places to because of his tire change. In short, it wasn’t a 14 second “penalty” tire change, it was a FREE TIRE CHANGE AND it removed every car in his way.

Those are the minimum problems. However, even beyond that, when the Safety Car left the track, it’s up to the race leader to determine when they start racing again. Until then, ALL other cars have to stay behind the leader, just as they have to behind the Safety Car. Max didn’t!

Multiple times, Hamilton slowed to a crawl, as he’s allowed to, in an attempt to gain some advantage, but Verstappen was pulled ALONGSIDE AND SOMETIMES AHEAD when the rules clearly state it is verboten.

That appeal was turned down by the Stewards, as they said Hamilton was braking and accelerating. Huh???

There is almost nothing ANYONE can tell me that will convince me that Masi was not pressured (internally and/or externally) into making a horribly flawed decision to change the rules at the most important time of the most important race of the entire World Championship season.

None of that has a damned thing to do with Hamilton being on old hard tires versus new soft tires…unless you believe that Masi was completely cognizant of that fact, which was WHY he did what he did.

I find it impossible to believe he was not acutely aware of the respective drivers’ strategic positions and, by his hand, he placed a thumb on the scale of this Championship.

Masi should not be the Race Director next season, but the FIA would be admitting their own failure by removing him, so it’s kinda like PGMOL! They’re fucked!
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You literally repeated what I said. I acknowledged that he stayed out to maintain track position. However that is a gamble, one that Lewis acknowledged as well.

That initial decision was in their hands, of course they knew Max would pass but it was pretty evident that the Mercedes was the quicker car and would have been more so on fresher tyres. The reason for staying out was pretty clear, to avoid tangling / having to pass Max on the track. That is fair enough as well considering the history.

i do also believe that had that scenario played out and it was the Merc on the offensive with the tyre strategy, Masi would have released the cars. It’s not a conspiracy for Max to win the title, that’s all I’m saying.
 
I don’t quite understand the fallout here.

Red Bull’s strategy was to pit, expecting/hoping at some stage the safety car would be brought out or that Hamilton was forced to pit later on in the race and they could make back the time. If they hadn’t have pitted twice Hamilton wouldn’t have had such a lead.

Mercedes strategy was not to pit, to keep the lead and push on, taking the risk that Hamilton wouldn’t need to pit nor that the race would be restarted.

One strategy came good.
 
svennis pennis said:
You literally repeated what I said. I acknowledged that he stayed out to maintain track position. However that is a gamble, one that Lewis acknowledged as well.

That initial decision was in their hands, of course they knew Max would pass but it was pretty evident that the Mercedes was the quicker car and would have been more so on fresher tyres. The reason for staying out was pretty clear, to avoid tangling / having to pass Max on the track. That is fair enough as well considering the history.
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It wasn't a gamble though?

Every legitimate option gave Lewis enough time to win.

1) they let every car unlap and Lewis wins under the safety.

2) they don't let them unlap and Verstappen has to get past 5 cars before he even gets to Lewis. Wouldn't even get close to Hamilton over a lap.

Mercedes racing strategy had them both covered, they had planned for it.

If they had pitted Red Bull would have adopted both strategy's knowing there was no legitimate way Mercedes could have won.
 
I'm still fuming about yesterday. It irritates me more how shameless Red Bull and MV were having won.

LH is clearly the best driver in the world. He clearly won that race. MV needed every rule in the book breaking to get him over the line and even then he only won because he had much fresher tires (If LH had been able to pit, he'd be world champion right now).

I reckon next season LH will win by a country mile and IMO he's still going to finish his career as the greatest driver of all time.
 
bugsyblue said:
I don’t quite understand the fallout here.

Red Bull’s strategy was to pit, expecting/hoping at some stage the safety car would be brought out or that Hamilton was forced to pit later on in the race and they could make back the time. If they hadn’t have pitted twice Hamilton wouldn’t have had such a lead.

Mercedes strategy was not to pit, to keep the lead and push on, taking the risk that Hamilton wouldn’t need to pit nor that the race would be restarted.

One strategy came good.
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The fallout is that the rules weren't followed. So Mercedes strategy wasn't beaten by a superior Red Bull strategy. They were beaten by the racing director doing whatever the fuck he wanted.

He let the overlapped cars between Hamilton and Verstappen go, he didn't let all of them go, so Sainz in 3rd place didn't even get a shot at Verstappen or Hamilton. Instead he had to defend his position from 4th because the overlapped cars were in the way.

The safety car is supposed to come in a lap later, allowing the overlapped cars to rejoin the back of the group. It went in early.

Or he could have left the overlapped cars but Verstappen would have to get past them like Hamilton did. He wouldn't have won with 1 lap left.

Masi made up his own rules. Hard to strategise when the racing director makes up new rules.
 
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MCFC1993 said:
It wasn't a gamble though?

Every legitimate option gave Lewis enough time to win.

1) they let every car unlap and Lewis wins under the safety.

2) they don't let them unlap and Verstappen has to get past 5 cars before he even gets to Lewis. Wouldn't even get close to Hamilton over a lap.

Mercedes racing strategy had them both covered, they had planned for it.

If they had pitted Red Bull would have adopted both strategy's knowing there was no legitimate way Mercedes could have won.
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It was a gamble, there is a radio message from Lewis saying exactly that under the virtual safety car. That was the point to switch tyres if they were ever going to do so. Toto is on the radio to Masi telling him not to make it a full safety car, they knew it was a risk. If they had switched they would then have been in control of tyre strategy, Red Bull would have kept Max out in a slower car with knackered tyres. The sport can come down to those fine margins. We've seen Lewis brilliantly switch tyres and race back through the field to win races before.

What we saw at the end of the race was unprecedented, im not denying that, but there was a point in the race where Mercedes took a calculated risk not to switch tyres in order to maintain track position.
 
bugsyblue said:
I don’t quite understand the fallout here.

Red Bull’s strategy was to pit, expecting/hoping at some stage the safety car would be brought out or that Hamilton was forced to pit later on in the race and they could make back the time. If they hadn’t have pitted twice Hamilton wouldn’t have had such a lead.

Mercedes strategy was not to pit, to keep the lead and push on, taking the risk that Hamilton wouldn’t need to pit nor that the race would be restarted.

One strategy came good.
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With a little help from a rule being applied in a way it never has before, being the salient point. If Mercedes knew that could happen then they would have perhaps taken a different strategy.
 
svennis pennis said:
It was a gamble, there is a radio message from Lewis saying exactly that under the virtual safety car. That was the point to switch tyres if they were ever going to do so. Toto is on the radio to Masi telling him not to make it a full safety car, they knew it was a risk. If they had switched they would then have been in control of tyre strategy, Red Bull would have kept Max out in a slower car with knackered tyres. The sport can come down to those fine margins. We've seen Lewis brilliantly switch tyres and race back through the field to win races before.

What we saw at the end of the race was unprecedented, im not denying that, but there was a point in the race where Mercedes took a calculated risk not to switch tyres in order to maintain track position.
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Yes earlier on in the race Mercedes could have come in under the VSC.

But I don't see how that affects what happened because their strategy was spot on.

It wasn't beaten by Red Bulls strategy, it was beaten by an illegal decision that was designed for drama and not sport.

Mercedes 100% would have changed their strategy if they knew Masi was going to make something like that up.
 
bugsyblue said:
I don’t quite understand the fallout here.

Red Bull’s strategy was to pit, expecting/hoping at some stage the safety car would be brought out or that Hamilton was forced to pit later on in the race and they could make back the time. If they hadn’t have pitted twice Hamilton wouldn’t have had such a lead.

Mercedes strategy was not to pit, to keep the lead and push on, taking the risk that Hamilton wouldn’t need to pit nor that the race would be restarted.

One strategy came good.
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The fallout is that the only reason the Red Bull strategy worked is that the race directory tore up the rule book to give Red Bull a lap of racing after Horner had pleaded on the radio that he only needed one lap.
 
FFS BBC talking about the F1 and repeatedly mention Harry Kane's tweet before Silly Sally and Dopey Dan imply that the rules are so complex that even Mensa Harry can't work them out.
Then they move to a touching story about a lad who gave bone marrow to a girl, now stuying nursing, meeting at Anfield with the goalie who managed to take a player down as he touches the ball with a single finger (allegedly).
Ten minutes of the the happy family and the gutsy Liverpool fan some of it filmed at Anfield last week but most in the studio today entirely surrounded by panamic pictures of the inside of the ground. Not the first time there is an explosion of red everywhere in 10 minutes of entirely free advertising. Brezhnev and his Comrades would have loved all that red.
 
I think your reaction to the shambles of yesterday says a lot about you as a person.
It’s fair to say those dismissing the sheer lack of integrity involved in reaching the result they did and celebrating a victory as hollow and undeserved as it was are not the type you’d want to spend too much time with or trust as far as you could throw.
 
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