The minimal but annual price increases are very annoying and clearly a ‘softening up’ process, especially when many of our neighbours were freezing prices.I've aired my views on this before, and the club knows them, but some interesting points being raised so I'll give a detailed response.
I don't think anyone expects to watch games for free or for minimal amounts. The club, after all, is a commercial business that has to report a level of profit (or loss) within the requirements of FFP. But, my god, have they lost their way on ticketing & prcing in the last few years. I know from my work, where I deal with major IT implementations and business change, that tinkering often leads to more problems than it solves. And we've tinkered.
We're at a unique moment in our history, where we've been catapulted from a yo-yo club, sometimes facing existential financial crises, but with a remarkably and steadfastly loyal fanbase, to one of the biggest, most successful clubs on the planet. Football itself has changed. Instead of games mostly being at 3pm on a Saturday, with the occasional midweek one, you can watch a game pretty well every day of the week these days.
And people are more mobile, as we moved further away for work and other reasons. They don't roll out of the factory gates, hop on a bus or two and go to a game. I started working in London just before the takeover and we alway had plenty of fans down there, many of whom travelled to games regularly. Now we're global and you'll usually see fans who've travelled thousands of miles to see one game at the Etihad. Yet we still think about tickets the same way as we did in the 1970's.
As much as I have a lot of time for Garry Cook, he started the trend of consistently higher prices. Maybe the owner tasked him with doing this and he had little choice, but that trend has carried on. My understanding is that, a few years ago maybe 4 or 5, the board decided ticket prices were high enough but they were somehow overruled and the increases continued. The majority of our season card holders are over 50 and most of us will be gone as matchgoing regulars in 25-30 years, there's an ideal opportunity to take a step back and look strategically at what we want as a club regarding our fanbase and where we want to be over the next 10/20/30 years.
We have an unparalelled opportunity to capture a new set of fans. One of my colleagues is a Sheffield United fan and was telling me his son has decided he's a City fan. The colleague I work most closely with, her teenage daughter idolises players like Phil Foden & Raheem Sterling. You hear this story time and time again. We are big box office these days and I guess many of us started watching City on an occasional basis with our families.
There's plenty of empitrical evidence that the earlier you get kids coming to games (of any sport) the more chance you have of them becoming regulars. Yet if you want to bring kids to a Category A game, like the one on Saturday, it'd cost a nuclear family of mum, dad and two kids over £200. It wouldn't be that much less to watch a team like Burnley, Brighton or Southampton at the Etihad. That's absolute nonsense. Yet we sell virtually all our tickets (according to the figures we've been given). One issue we're starting to look at is why people who've bought tickets don't turn up and what we can do about it.
From a revenue point of view, we underperform Liverpool, the club who are closest to us in terms of stadium capacity and location outsdie London. We think we know whay; they have far fewer season ticket holders than us (25k v 40k) so sell more matchday tickets, which command a premium. They also charge a single price per block or group of blocks regardless of opposition. Over a season, if you bought tickets on a match-by-match basis, you'd pay more at Liverpool (& united, who have the same pricing approach) than at City. Their range of season ticket prices is a lot narrower than ours.
But would anyone seriously want to reduce the number of season tickets, or get rid of the cheapest ones? I know quite a few who can only afford to come because they pay £325.
There's lots of other questions we can ask about ticketing and ticket prices. We currently have three different prices in many blocks, depending on which row you sit on. I hate that personally but some benefit from it. We have category pricing but Category B games, like Burnley, Brighton or Southampton, are too expensive at £53. We could do what Arsenal do, and charge top whack for Cat A games but significantly less (think it's about £38/28 for Cat B/C games).
There's a huge inconsistency between the relative matchday & season ticket prices across blocks, with some areas attracting a large discount for season tickets whereas some don't appear to. There's the whole question (which I've brought up before) of whether you should actually pay a small premium for a season ticket. , Economic theory would argue that you should, as a season ticket confers various benefits on the owner, that a matchday ticket buyer doesn't get.
We should also be looking at the whole notion of season tickets in this modern round-the-clock-football era. Should they be done on a right-to-buy basis where, instead of the club assuming you will turn up unless you tell them otherwise, they assume you won't be coming unless you confirm you are. So you pay a small sum to reserve your seat and pay a balance before the relevant game. We know that many people simply can't make midweek games and this might solve that issue. Or we could have midweek and weekend season tickets for some seats.
We had the £95 kids' season ticket, which was successful (from a fan point of view). I doubt the club would ressurect that but why not a tenner for kids, matching Liverpool's £9 (although I think there are a limited numbers of tickets for that). As someone said, introduce a family ticket where kids were effectively getting in free. Offer a bundle of 5 tickets - one Cat A, 2 Cat B and two Cat C for reduced price. Have a block or blocks that don't have any season tickets in, where people can get 3 or 4 seats together on a match-by-match basis.
Whatever we do, I want the club to stop tinkering round the edges and think long term, without any preconceived notions or sacred cows. Stop jacking up prices by a few percent, merely because we're playing great football and winning things. Because one day that might not be the case and they'll be wondering where all the fans have gone.
It’s bizarre because the club are so forward thinking and market leading in literally every other aspect but when it comes to ticketing you could literally grab a few people of this forum to do a better job.They are thinking about some of this, thinking about some of the conversations we've had. The question is, how radical are they prepared to be, or is it just going to be more tinkering.
I was one who was able to leave it empty, but having deferred this season, I think I will become game selective in the future and let my season ticket goNo doubt many can't mate, but there are clearly many who can and do.
Agree mate, been some great games in early rounds of the cup in recent years due to great pricing, full house and cracking atmosphere.The minimal but annual price increases are very annoying and clearly a ‘softening up’ process, especially when many of our neighbours were freezing prices.
I know Soriano was brought here to increase revenue but he has milked the working class cow more than enough
Fulham in the cup will actually be great because loads of young people priced out by the ludicrous one off matchday prices will be able to go
Agreed 100% mate. My nephew is 15 and a proper hardcore blue Bert, season ticket since he was 10, but he also loves going to Curzon Ashton and Stockport etc with his mob of young mates when City aren’t playing because they can all go together in a gang, talk shite and be themselves. Wander about, try to sneak a beer and just be young lads basicallyAgree mate, been some great games in early rounds of the cup in recent years due to great pricing, full house and cracking atmosphere.
How about season tickets are abolished altogether, and match tickets are priced at season ticket prices per game, that way previous season tickets seats that remain empty would be on sale to people who want to buy a ticket for the match.
The club got rid of away loyalty points, so they could get rid of season tickets If they wanted to.
People could pick their seats. People could pick seats together for family and friends if they are available. Groups of singers could pick seats together. People would still keep and get loyalty points on every ticket purchased. Seats wouldn’t be bought and then left empty. There are plenty of positives to getting rid of season tickets altogether.
I appreciate it’s not as easy at that and the club would have to look at the pros and cons of it.
I've aired my views on this before, and the club knows them, but some interesting points being raised so I'll give a detailed response.
I don't think anyone expects to watch games for free or for minimal amounts. The club, after all, is a commercial business that has to report a level of profit (or loss) within the requirements of FFP. But, my god, have they lost their way on ticketing & prcing in the last few years. I know from my work, where I deal with major IT implementations and business change, that tinkering often leads to more problems than it solves. And we've tinkered.
We're at a unique moment in our history, where we've been catapulted from a yo-yo club, sometimes facing existential financial crises, but with a remarkably and steadfastly loyal fanbase, to one of the biggest, most successful clubs on the planet. Football itself has changed. Instead of games mostly being at 3pm on a Saturday, with the occasional midweek one, you can watch a game pretty well every day of the week these days.
And people are more mobile, as we moved further away for work and other reasons. They don't roll out of the factory gates, hop on a bus or two and go to a game. I started working in London just before the takeover and we alway had plenty of fans down there, many of whom travelled to games regularly. Now we're global and you'll usually see fans who've travelled thousands of miles to see one game at the Etihad. Yet we still think about tickets the same way as we did in the 1970's.
As much as I have a lot of time for Garry Cook, he started the trend of consistently higher prices. Maybe the owner tasked him with doing this and he had little choice, but that trend has carried on. My understanding is that, a few years ago maybe 4 or 5, the board decided ticket prices were high enough but they were somehow overruled and the increases continued. The majority of our season card holders are over 50 and most of us will be gone as matchgoing regulars in 25-30 years, there's an ideal opportunity to take a step back and look strategically at what we want as a club regarding our fanbase and where we want to be over the next 10/20/30 years.
We have an unparalelled opportunity to capture a new set of fans. One of my colleagues is a Sheffield United fan and was telling me his son has decided he's a City fan. The colleague I work most closely with, her teenage daughter idolises players like Phil Foden & Raheem Sterling. You hear this story time and time again. We are big box office these days and I guess many of us started watching City on an occasional basis with our families.
There's plenty of empitrical evidence that the earlier you get kids coming to games (of any sport) the more chance you have of them becoming regulars. Yet if you want to bring kids to a Category A game, like the one on Saturday, it'd cost a nuclear family of mum, dad and two kids over £200. It wouldn't be that much less to watch a team like Burnley, Brighton or Southampton at the Etihad. That's absolute nonsense. Yet we sell virtually all our tickets (according to the figures we've been given). One issue we're starting to look at is why people who've bought tickets don't turn up and what we can do about it.
From a revenue point of view, we underperform Liverpool, the club who are closest to us in terms of stadium capacity and location outsdie London. We think we know whay; they have far fewer season ticket holders than us (25k v 40k) so sell more matchday tickets, which command a premium. They also charge a single price per block or group of blocks regardless of opposition. Over a season, if you bought tickets on a match-by-match basis, you'd pay more at Liverpool (& united, who have the same pricing approach) than at City. Their range of season ticket prices is a lot narrower than ours.
But would anyone seriously want to reduce the number of season tickets, or get rid of the cheapest ones? I know quite a few who can only afford to come because they pay £325.
There's lots of other questions we can ask about ticketing and ticket prices. We currently have three different prices in many blocks, depending on which row you sit on. I hate that personally but some benefit from it. We have category pricing but Category B games, like Burnley, Brighton or Southampton, are too expensive at £53. We could do what Arsenal do, and charge top whack for Cat A games but significantly less (think it's about £38/28 for Cat B/C games).
There's a huge inconsistency between the relative matchday & season ticket prices across blocks, with some areas attracting a large discount for season tickets whereas some don't appear to. There's the whole question (which I've brought up before) of whether you should actually pay a small premium for a season ticket. , Economic theory would argue that you should, as a season ticket confers various benefits on the owner, that a matchday ticket buyer doesn't get.
We should also be looking at the whole notion of season tickets in this modern round-the-clock-football era. Should they be done on a right-to-buy basis where, instead of the club assuming you will turn up unless you tell them otherwise, they assume you won't be coming unless you confirm you are. So you pay a small sum to reserve your seat and pay a balance before the relevant game. We know that many people simply can't make midweek games and this might solve that issue. Or we could have midweek and weekend season tickets for some seats.
We had the £95 kids' season ticket, which was successful (from a fan point of view). I doubt the club would ressurect that but why not a tenner for kids, matching Liverpool's £9 (although I think there are a limited numbers of tickets for that). As someone said, introduce a family ticket where kids were effectively getting in free. Offer a bundle of 5 tickets - one Cat A, 2 Cat B and two Cat C for reduced price. Have a block or blocks that don't have any season tickets in, where people can get 3 or 4 seats together on a match-by-match basis.
Whatever we do, I want the club to stop tinkering round the edges and think long term, without any preconceived notions or sacred cows. Stop jacking up prices by a few percent, merely because we're playing great football and winning things. Because one day that might not be the case and they'll be wondering
.
We all know this, but I‘ll say it again. When Pep leaves City and the team and results start falling away, which they will do, because there will never be a manager like Pep again at City again, regardless of which manager takes over from him, and the glory hunting and fair weather fans start drifting away, and the empty seats get’s worse, let’s see what the club do about expensive ticket prices then?
Runs against the suggestion of abolishing season tickets. If/when things fall away, even in a single season if not in contention for silverware, demand for tickets will reduce. At least the majority of (granted not all) season ticket holders will probably still go having already paid.
Fortunately the days of the club wanting early renewal (April?) for season ticket sales because a) they needed the money upfront and b) you never what division we would be in the following season are a thing of the past !
How about season tickets are abolished altogether, and match tickets are priced at season ticket prices per game, that way previous season tickets seats that remain empty would be on sale to people who want to buy a ticket for the match.
The club got rid of away loyalty points, so they could get rid of season tickets If they wanted to.
People could pick their seats. People could pick seats together for family and friends if they are available. Groups of singers could pick seats together. People would still keep and get loyalty points on every ticket purchased. Seats wouldn’t be bought and then left empty. There are plenty of positives to getting rid of season tickets altogether.
I appreciate it’s not as easy at that and the club would have to look at the pros and cons of it.
How about season tickets are abolished altogether, and match tickets are priced at season ticket prices per game, that way previous season tickets seats that remain empty would be on sale to people who want to buy a ticket for the match.
The club got rid of away loyalty points, so they could get rid of season tickets If they wanted to.
People could pick their seats. People could pick seats together for family and friends if they are available. Groups of singers could pick seats together. People would still keep and get loyalty points on every ticket purchased. Seats wouldn’t be bought and then left empty. There are plenty of positives to getting rid of season tickets altogether.
I appreciate it’s not as easy at that and the club would have to look at the pros and cons of it.
You wouldn’t need to do anything as radical as doing away with season tickets if there was a £5 uplift on season ticket prices for match day members. Season ticket holders need to either attend, transfer, or list on the exchange for a minimum of 15 matches or lose the ticket for the following season. If said ticket is listed on the exchange at £5 above season ticket price they will likely sell. You need to create a scenario whereby season tickets are the preserve of people who genuinely want to attend the majority of games.It won’t matter. If you buy a season ticket, you will still go without a season ticket, as long as the prices are equal to season ticket prices. Having a season ticket does not make you go to the match, as this and other seasons have shown. What it will stop is people buying season tickets and specific seats, whether they go to the matches or not. At least City fans who can’t get a season ticket as they sell out apparently, will have a chance to get a ticket at season ticket prices if they are on open sale.
Trust me, when you have something that you take for granted, and you no longer have it, and somebody else has it, your old seat, that makes you want to go more. I would hate anyone to have my seat on a match day. And if it was sold before I bought it, I would buy another seat instead
What City will be doing is opening up 35,000-40,000 seats(season tickets) at season ticket prices for any City fan to buy.
Yes, it’s a lottery, but if you buy a ticket earlier enough, you will always get a ticket. Not sure, can’t be arsed because it’s Brentford, you don’t go, but another City fan will.
I get booted out of my usual seat for Champions League games and I agree 100%.It won’t matter. If you buy a season ticket, you will still go without a season ticket, as long as the prices are equal to season ticket prices. Having a season ticket does not make you go to the match, as this and other seasons have shown. What it will stop is people buying season tickets and specific seats, whether they go to the matches or not. At least City fans who can’t get a season ticket as they sell out apparently, will have a chance to get a ticket at season ticket prices if they are on open sale.
Trust me, when you have something that you take for granted, and you no longer have it, and somebody else has it, your old seat, that makes you want to go more. I would hate anyone to have my seat on a match day. And if it was sold before I bought it, I would buy another seat instead
What City will be doing is opening up 35,000-40,000 seats(season tickets) at season ticket prices for any City fan to buy.
Yes, it’s a lottery, but if you buy a ticket earlier enough, you will always get a ticket. Not sure, can’t be arsed because it’s Brentford, you don’t go, but another City fan will.
T
People like routine. They want to sit in the same seat surrounded by the same people, you only have to see that by how people complain when they have to move for cup matches etc.
Asking people to book every 2 weeks for tickets, having to change their routines, fans constantly having to change seats would quickly result in many walking away. Also having seen our ticket office in operation do you think they could handle an extra 42k ticket sales every 2 weeks?
Tbf though there is a balance.The big problem for me is there is no half way house in relation to ticket prices forcing some to continue in the knowledge they cannot make every match.
For example a season ticket (for 19 matches) in Level 3 is £325 but at everyday match prices that might get you into 6/7 matches. Im sure there must be loads of blues how can neither make all 19 games (such as midweek games for faraway blues or sunday matches for those working) but also attend much more than 6/7 games a season.
Its a shame we cannot have a shopping cart where we can pick and choose matches to add to our season ticket book. If you fancy just going to the big games you pay that bit more, happy with Burnley, Watford and the like your Season ticket is less. I think it would help reduce not attendees as you have had control of determining the dates/fixtures of those games you can attend.
Without season tickets I doubt we would get much over 20k charging £42+ for Brentford on a cold Tuesday evening.People like routine. They want to sit in the same seat surrounded by the same people, you only have to see that by how people complain when they have to move for cup matches etc.
Asking people to book every 2 weeks for tickets, having to change their routines, fans constantly having to change seats would quickly result in many walking away. Also having seen our ticket office in operation do you think they could handle an extra 42k ticket sales every 2 weeks?