Liverpool (A) | PL | Post-Match Thread

[coolcity]

I think the "clear and obvious" stuff is a bit of a red herring, and has taken on a mythology of its own. The ref wouldn't have seen the shirt pull in real time. He was told to look at it, and when you see it on the replay it's a foul every day of the week.

But that's exactly the point - if the rules say it has to be a "clear and obvious error", subsequently if it isn't then VAR shouldn't be involved.

If a shirt pull is a foul then it has to be given every time it's seen. If the ref has seen it and plays on, there's absolutely no point if it means a goal is scored a few seconds later then is chalked off. If the ref hasn't seen it, i.e. can't see it, then it's not an error. How can not being able to see something be an error, "clear and obvious" or otherwise?

This idea of letting the game flow needs to be clarified. at what point is a foul not a foul? And if you're going to let it go then you can't pull it back later on because it's resulted in a goal, it's ridiculous.

 

[Damanino]

not giving a minute to Mahrez or Grealish in a game like this speaks volumes where we struggled to create anything clear cut all game.

especially as Cancelo was in no man land all game, shit going forward, even worse at the back, KDB had his worst game in ages, while on the left Foden seemed to be bit intimidated from a joke Milner or was instructed not to trouble him, dont know which is worse.

also giving 5 mins to Alvarez, felt so strange.

they used their 5 subs, rightly so as they were running out of steam and needed fresh legs.

 

[LucahArchie10]

Why the fuck do we not have a left-back again?

Say what you will about fucking Boehly but, and I'm not suggesting for a minute we'd be better off if he was in charge, if he had bought the club in the summer a left back would've been through the door in two weeks tops even if it cost 60m. It's horrendous that we find ourselves having to do this bizarre Wallace and Gromit shit at Anfield of all places to compensate for the fact that one of the eleven positions on the pitch is fundamentally unrepresented.

On the other hand we're obviously the best side in the league and we'll win it eventually, but it's exactly these kinds of games that cost us the CL.

Show me a top draw LB who is a shit hot defender???

Problem is all these RB or LB are now wing backs who are far far better going fwd & when it comes to the odd game & they have to defend more they become unstuck & get torn a new arsehole by these top FWD's in the world today

Alphonso Davies, Dani Alvez, Walker, Trent/Robertson, James, Peredes etc all love going fwd but all have defensive frailties

It's only a problem when it happens in these big games otherwise Cancelo has 9/10 game week in week out

If we had signed Cucurella, Raum or Chillwell it wouldn't matter imo

I would have Cancelo all day every day even if we see the odd fuck up

We had chances to win those games whether Cancelo fucked it or not just like the games in the last few seasons problem is as a team & that inc Pep we fucking mess it up & we can't seem to shake it off

Has it cost us the league today no but in Cup football it certainly does

Take our chances & we are talking about 16 point gap.

Move on

 

[madloaf]

But that's exactly the point - if the rules say it has to be a "clear and obvious error", subsequently if it isn't then VAR shouldn't be involved.

If a shirt pull is a foul then it has to be given every time it's seen. If the ref has seen it and plays on, there's absolutely no point if it means a goal is scored a few seconds later then is chalked off. If the ref hasn't seen it, i.e. can't see it, then it's not an error. How can not being able to see something be an error, "clear and obvious" or otherwise?

This idea of letting the game flow needs to be clarified. at what point is a foul not a foul? And if you're going to let it go then you can't pull it back later on because it's resulted in a goal, it's ridiculous.

So you're saying VAR is shit. Consider me shocked!

 

[chaddblue]

Yeah, it should.

Fabinho fell into Haaland.

Fabinho fouled Haaland first

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

No it shouldn't

Yes it should because it was not clear and obvious and also was too far back

 

[BlueMonkey79]

All our defender shit themselves today for some reason.

Akanji has been impervious so far this season.

Dias normally assured

Ake look liked like he was running in treacle at times.

Bad day at the office. Write it off.

 

[argyle]

Jack’s not a happy bunny

How do you know that? Any vids or something?

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

not giving a minute to Mahrez or Grealish in a game like this speaks volumes where we struggled to create anything clear cut all game.

especially as Cancelo was in no man land all game, shit going forward, even worse at the back, KDB had his worst game in ages, while on the left Foden seemed to be bit intimidated from a joke Milner or was instructed not to trouble him, dont know which is worse.

also giving 5 mins to Alvarez, felt so strange.

they used their 5 subs, rightly so as they were running out of steam and needed fresh legs.

Apparently Phil was brilliant. Go figure….

 

[hilts]

Yes it should because it was not clear and obvious and also was too far back

Well I saw a pull of the shirt just before the goal Mr Magoo not sure what you saw

 

[St.Pauli support]

So you're saying VAR is shit. Consider me shocked!

Taylor took the decision, he's the ref. He could easily have said that's not enough to cancel the goal,
it perfectly fits to the way I've reffed this match. Goal stands.

 

[Lauz9888]

Frustrating. Feels like an opportunity missed. We know we have the quality to beat them.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Virtually every time we play at their place we gift them a fucking goal. How the fuck can WE have an attacking free kick, and once its taken the next touch we get is getting out of the net, joke goal and awful defending from Cancelo, the last man can not defend like that.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Well I saw a pull of the shirt just before the goal Mr Magoo not sure what you saw

It’s then gone to a Liverpool player, city player has took it off him, been played forward to Haaland, Alison has spilled it and Phil has scored. How far back do you think we should be going, out of interest?

 

[Beanhead]

You may want to put it down to Pep’s team selection and tactics today, but your comments are way OTT. Who would you get in as manager then? 4 premier league titles in the last 5 years not good enough for you?

I was being sarcastic mate.. taking the poss out of all the clowns slagging Pep off. Chill..

 

[BillCarlisle]

You probably missed the context then if you didn't watch the full game.
As you missed the game what happened was the referee has been letting the game flow allowing contact and physical challenges, he spots two players tussling for the ball, one uses his arm and upper body to unbalance the opposition player who loses balance and grabs the opposite players shirt while stumbling. The stumbling player plays the ball on and a goal is scored. The VAR team then decides to refer the referee to look at the monitor to review the goal decision he has made due to this tussling for the ball. The contact and "shirt pull" was nothing more extreme than had been going on all game and had no effect in the outcome of the fight for the ball (the player who was 'held back' was already falling and had lost control of the ball at that point).
In your opinion was the VAR operator right to call this as a "clear and obvious" error and to use his powers to effectively re-referee an ongoing game? If a referee has allowed a physical and robust match does the VAR operative have the authority to overrule the onfield referee when a goal has been scored after a period of play that has involved the same level of physical play that has been ongoing all match? At what point does an onfield referees decisions in allowing a physical contest become "clear and obvious" errors?
I agree with the Thiago red card though, he was flying in and would probably have deserved a yellow but as he slipped it wasn't in his control at that point so no card required in my opinion.

Pretty much what I said to my wife at the time VAR intervened. They are not using VAR as it is meant to be used. IMHO it was not a clear and obvious error as Taylor seemed to be maintaining a consistency by letting the game flow. Then he's told to review it and from that moment on there could be only one outcome. Truth of the matter is that the VAR official hundreds of miles away was ultimately refereeing the game and it's happening every week up and down the country. Referees are being placed in an impossible situation by the incompetence of the PL and PGMOL in the way VAR is being implemented. Consequently, the game is being ruined IMHO. Frankly it's become a complete charade when the referee goes to the monitor in such situations. It's clear he's already been given his instructions to reverse the decision.

 

[Brightwell Bros.]

If the ref hasn't seen it, i.e. can't see it, then it's not an error. How can not being able to see something be an error, "clear and obvious" or otherwise?

I don't think I understand this point? That's literally what the error in "clear and obvious error" is.

 

[Citizen in Pakistan]

He changes things every game but it seems people only notice when we lose.

In the 3 matches we've dropped points this season he made a total of 3 substitutions and other than Palace game all substitutions made by pep were when we were winning comfortably by 2,3 and 4-0

 

[Jesus H Gabz]

You probably missed the context then if you didn't watch the full game.
As you missed the game what happened was the referee has been letting the game flow allowing contact and physical challenges, he spots two players tussling for the ball, one uses his arm and upper body to unbalance the opposition player who loses balance and grabs the opposite players shirt while stumbling. The stumbling player plays the ball on and a goal is scored. The VAR team then decides to refer the referee to look at the monitor to review the goal decision he has made due to this tussling for the ball. The contact and "shirt pull" was nothing more extreme than had been going on all game and had no effect in the outcome of the fight for the ball (the player who was 'held back' was already falling and had lost control of the ball at that point).
In your opinion was the VAR operator right to call this as a "clear and obvious" error and to use his powers to effectively re-referee an ongoing game? If a referee has allowed a physical and robust match does the VAR operative have the authority to overrule the onfield referee when a goal has been scored after a period of play that has involved the same level of physical play that has been ongoing all match? At what point does an onfield referees decisions in allowing a physical contest become "clear and obvious" errors?
I agree with the Thiago red card though, he was flying in and would probably have deserved a yellow but as he slipped it wasn't in his control at that point so no card required in my opinion.

Be interesting if somebody put together all the shirt pulls in the match that went unpunished

 

[BlueMoonRisin’]

I've read enough sorry excuses on here. Get yourself pissed, get to bed and wake up better for it. At the end of the day we conceded a solitary goal to a world class player. I still love City just as much as ever and i always will.

CTID