PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

petrusha said:
Don't think so. We haven't paid much tax, have we? We made losses over the first several seasons after the takeover and now profits are fairly small because the shareholders try to reinvest the club's money rather than taking it out for themselves.



I was also slightly disappointed with the Swiss Ramble piece. He's obviously trying hard to be impartial, but IMO he's missed one or two important points in trying to be all

I also agree about the headline and concluding line: "Will City be found guilty? Maybe." He could easily have said, "Let's wait and see!" when speaking about the prospects, and that would have been a much wiser course given that neither he or anyone else really has any idea at this stage what the likely outcome is.

After all, none of us knows exactly what evidence the PL will be putting forward, so we can't assess the strength of the case. Of the points I mentioned above that he's missed, one is the fact that, if the charges are as serious as he says, this has an important effect on the standard of proof required in the case. It's very much something worth mentioning.

I haven't listened yet to Colin on Cheesy's blog. I will do later, though.
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Thanks for your insight, it certainly puts things in layman terms for most of us. Sorry to put you on the spot, but in reference to what you mentioned above, do you suspect the PL have new evidence or is it a complete rehash of the UEFA material?
 
Millennium said:

Richard Keys said today in Bein Sport En, that Rui Pinto is a hero because he desclosed all the information about City!!!! This guy is biased، idiot and really hate City.​

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I take it The Amazingly Hirsute One made no mention of:

- stealing information from numerous clubs?
- attempted extortion?
- the splicing of e-mails to 'prove' City's guilt?

Oh, that's all right then.. 'Carry on, as you were, Number One, left hand down a bit..'
 
petrusha said:
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As for the substantive point, I was partly amused but also partly incandescent when I discovered how weak UEFA's evidence was before the CAS. How fucking dare they make accusations as serious as that on such a pathetically flimsy basis!
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I've always held the opinion they were forced into action by the old G14 clubs and had to make accusations based on flimsy evidence as that's all they had.
 
CC1 said:
Not like SR to be so negative. Didn’t find it at all reassuring unless I’m missing something
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I didn’t find it negative at all, it’s more a summary of the facts and situation and I think that’s done very well. If anything, the analysis indicates just how well run we are compared to others (and how hypocritical some of them are when it comes to their own setups), which is reassuring in itself.
 
CC1 said:
Not like SR to be so negative. Didn’t find it at all reassuring unless I’m missing something
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Can't blame him for being cautious after all he is an accountant and as I remember their simple rule is

"We don't make the news all we do is report it"

Asking them to predict is like drawing teeth and frankly if both parties have a legal battle that may or may not be fairly judged. That may be too many variables for anyone to predict let alone SR.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I usually like his stuff but didn't like his headline on this. There is nothing in what he has demonstrated that would help him reach the conclusion that 'maybe' we are guilty. Quite the opposite. He uses excellent financial information to demonstrate exactly how our business plan has worked and worked brilliantly. I thought Colin did a far better job of putting the charges into context on Cheesys blog without the help of all them fancy charts.
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I’d guess his “maybe” stance comes from the fact that the extent of any evidence gathered by the Premier League is not yet known. He makes the seriousness of the allegations clear and it’s reasonable for him to presume at least the possibility that a good standard of evidence exists to underpin the charges (unlike UEFA!).
It’s an excellent summary overall but he puts undue weight on the 2 to 1 majority at CAS (just UEFA’s nominee voting in their favour) and totally omits the geo-political dimension. I think the geopolitics will have a major impact but its workings will be largely unseen and unreported. I agree that the Cheesy/PB video was excellent by the way.
 
Rory Bluelow said:
I’d guess his “maybe” stance comes from the fact that the extent of any evidence gathered by the Premier League is not yet known. He makes the seriousness of the allegations clear and it’s reasonable for him to presume at least the possibility that a good standard of evidence exists to underpin the charges (unlike UEFA!).
It’s an excellent summary overall but he puts undue weight on the 2 to 1 majority at CAS (just UEFA’s nominee voting in their favour) and totally omits the geo-political dimension. I think the geopolitics will have a major impact but its workings will be largely unseen and unreported. I agree that the Cheesy/PB video was excellent by the way.
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The “maybe” is literally just because of the Oasis pun. Definitely maybe.
 
Tricky_Trev said:
The “maybe” is literally just because of the Oasis pun. Definitely maybe.
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And he has titled pretty much every blog post with a musical reference for 15 years.

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East Level 2 said:
I've always held the opinion they were forced into action by the old G14 clubs and had to make accusations based on flimsy evidence as that's all they had.
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I fully agree. Didn't make me any less angry, though.

You'd think that the PL, after such a lengthy investigation, must have better evidence so as to constitute a sound basis for the allegations. And you'd hope they'd show the utmost professionalism throughout the issuing and prosecution of such serious charges against a member club.

However, they've been under constant pressure from member clubs, too, and then there's the political issue of the Government considering imposing a regulator on them. I suppose there must be a chance that the PL is doing something similar to UEFA.

It would be astonishing, really, if they've levelled these accusations without showing due regard not only to their obligations to other clubs, but also to MCFC. We're one of their members, too.

On the other hand, it's not unknown for organisations and individuals who should know far better to act in a crass, unprofessional and wholly ill-advised matter when driven by expediency. I've seen it on a number of occasions during my career.

Of course, our detractors would point out that I should note that, when insinuating that the PL may be acting in this way, I should also acknowledge that maybe MCFC is the party whose conduct is questionable. Point taken, Indeed so.

Let's wait and see, then. I do hope there won't be any cause for ire on this occasion.
 
petrusha said:
I fully agree. Didn't make me any less angry, though.

You'd think that the PL, after such a lengthy investigation, must have better evidence so as to constitute a sound basis for the charges. And you'd hope they'd show the utmost professionalism throughout the issuing and prosecution of such serious charges against a member club.

However, they've been under constant pressure from member clubs, too, and then there's the political issue of the Government considering imposing a regulator on them. I suppose there must be a chance that the PL is doing something similar to UEFA.

It would be astonishing, really, if they've levelled these accusations without showing due regard not only to their obligations to other clubs, but also to MCFC. We're one of their members, too.

On the other hand, it's not unknown for organisations and individuals who should know far better to act in a crass, unprofessional and wholly ill-advised matter when driven by expediency. I've seen it on a number of occasions during my career.

Of course, our detractors would point out that I should note that, when insinuating that the PL may be acting in this way, I should also acknowledge that maybe MCFC is the party whose conduct is questionable. Point taken, Indeed so.

Let's wait and see, then. I do hope there won't be any cause for ire on this occasion.
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Peter, talk of Arsenal season ticket holders aside, can we expect a much fairer shake from this independent commission compared to when UEFA tried to nail us? City's statement certainly alludes to having a lot more trust in the process
 
Question - can hacked or illegal information be used in English law? When CAS occurred there was a debate around if stolen information could be used, as the Premier league rule book references English law does all the allegations reported in Der Speigal complete non starters? If they are using that avenue to allege over inflating sponsorship, Mancini doing work for Mansour’s other clubs and image rights and it’s discounted because it is illegally obtained company data. How does the Premier league then go about proving guilt when the likes of Etihad don’t have any legal obligation to open their books to the Premier league?
 
johnevans said:
I take it The Amazingly Hirsute One made no mention of:

- stealing information from numerous clubs?
- attempted extortion?
- the splicing of e-mails to 'prove' City's guilt?

Oh, that's all right then.. 'Carry on, as you were, Number One, left hand down a bit..'
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How thick must Keys be. A quick check on Google would show that the full background with Pinto is. He is facing a significant jail terms for extortion, hacking, and fraud on a grand scale.
 
M18CTID said:
Peter, talk of Arsenal season ticket holders aside, can we expect a much fairer shake from this independent commission compared to when UEFA tried to nail us? City's statement certainly alludes to having a lot more trust in the process
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The people who'll consider the case will be independent of the PL, extremely eminent and absolutely professional. Their integrity will be unquestioned.

I don't have any worries over whether the proceedings will be conducted fairly.
 
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