PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

No I don’t think they would have any jurisdiction over.
From what I understand the sums paid to Mancini from Man City were as per the contract.
Unless ( which I don’t think there is ) evidence that City paid either by cash or from their bank accounts any money that wasn’t in line with the contract then cant see how it is a matter that HMRC would remotely be involved in.
But that’s not the point of the charges. What the PL appear to be saying is that the money paid and from what I have read properly accounted for by another company was really in respect of his work at Man City.
Your not making sense the sums paid to Mancini by Man City may well have been inline with his contract I to have seen noting to say otherwise but the point is his contract with Man City should have had another 1 - 2 million on it. As he never did any work for this other club in the UAE the other jurisdiction and tax regime that paid him this money instead of City. Where it true the intention was not to avoid UK National Insurance or Income tax but that’s the affect of what happened from a HMRC point of view.

You might have had a point had it been a CFG company based in the same jurisdiction as City (UK) but I am not an expert
 
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What makes you think that this has gone away?

I thought your thread got deleted after your mates source was found out to be his daughter following some other mate on Twitter?

Maybe you could open a new thread, could do with a laugh.
 
I am just wondering why the charges are up until 2018.
Did our accounting change since then? If there are any problems with our image rights payments, Etihad deal, other sponsor payments etc, did anything change after 2018? or if they have been potentially breaking PL rules all those years do they still break those same rules in last 5 years too each year?
They're not, they go up to and include this season.
 
But UEFA expressly said that that we deliberately and dishonestly concealed the source of income originating from Mansour with a view to circumventing their rules, with the result that our audited accounts "were not complete or correct". I've never said that we were guilty of false accounting, but that's the substance of UEFA's allegations.

They didn't say that we innocently misrepresented the source of income or that we played fast and loose with their regulations, thus resulting in rule-breaking. They accused us, in the words of the CAS Panel, of dishonest concealment, which they said had resulted in our audited accounts being misleading with regard to our operating income. They claimed that this was done with a view to significantly inflating our permitted expenditure under FFP. It's there in black and white in the CAS Award.

It's not possible to do what they claimed we did without undertaking conduct that falls within the definition false accounting. It's the dishonesty and deception they've alleged that make the conduct fraudulent. Unless and until proven to the contrary, I won't believe that we did it. Nonetheless, that's what UEFA accused us of. If the PL want to allege the same, let them fucking own the accusations.

Here's a question. The UEFA charge was that the club disguised equity funding as sponsorship income and as a result our signed, audited accounts were not complete or accurate (I suppose they mean true and fair).

Edit: Sorry that was half a question. This is the rest.

Never mind. It's late :) Will try again tomorrow

:D
 
I wonder what the opposite of tax evasion is? The deliberate increasing of taxable income, or in this case probably the deliberate decreasing of tax losses? Tax self-harming maybe?
As you may have guessed alongside a background in football administration I also previously worked for the old Inland Revenue .

We accounted for all sorts of income tax. Schedule D then Self Assessment, NIC, CT, ACT the various heads of duty were numerous every payment we received had to be allocated correctly in our accounting records to the tax type it was attributed

We had one head of duty called conscience money what that was when people volunteered a payment because they had fiddled and their conscience got their got the better of them. You would be staggered how much we received mostly anonymous from the odd £10 note to £000s it really was quite staggering
 
Not if the services were provided outside the country, unless you have a world-wide income tax regime in the UK these days. You may have for all I know, I left over 40 years ago
They where not provided outside the country that the allegation he claimed to provide and service and be paid outside this country but was in fact paid outside this one for work done in this one
 
I thought your thread got deleted after your mates source was found out to be his daughter following some other mate on Twitter?

Maybe you could open a new thread, could do with a laugh.

Lol, wondered what happened to that thread.

So many were taken in by it. :/
 
Your not making sense the sums paid to Mancini by Man City may well have been inline with his contract I to have seen noting to say otherwise but the point is his contract with Man City should have had another 1 - 2 million on it. As he never did any work for this other club in the UAE the other jurisdiction and tax regime that paid him this money instead of City. Where it true the intention was not to avoid UK National Insurance or Income tax but that’s the affect of what happened from a HMRC point of view.

You might have had a point had it been a CFG company based in the same jurisdiction as City (UK) but I am not an expert
I know it’s the DM but read this article as it explains the allegation As to PAYE NIC unless the contract and hence the payment wasnt made in the UK I just can’t see how HMRC can be involved.

 
Well there is no appeal allowed with Premier League Kangaroo courts so I'm assuming if they find us guilty, City can take the PL to the high court
I’m not convinced there’s any avenue to the high court unless the PL or, more pertinently, the tribunal, do something illegal during the hearing. Of course, I could also be wrong……
 
I know it’s the DM but read this article as it explains the allegation As to PAYE NIC unless the contract and hence the payment wasnt made in the UK I just can’t see how HMRC can be involved.

What part of UAE club not based on the UK do you not understand
 
Like all blues I’m worried sick about this but trying to be objective here’s my twopennorth as a retired lawyer but not in the same league as petrusha and the other learned minds. Anyway….
I recall that City turned down a deal of something like a one year ban from the ECL and thinking at the time they must be very confident of their position to do so bearing in mind the inevitable uncertainty of any legal action, the more so the more complex the issues but were proved right to have done so.
I personally do not think the impartiality of the panel will be an issue, after all if a decision is perverse it may be capable of challenge despite what the PL rules may otherwise state and it would require people who should know better ignoring cogent evidence and putting their own reputations and credibility at stake.
Nor can I imagine City (or the owners/directors) would, having access to informed and impartial advice from their own Legal and accountancy advisers, placed themselves at risk of criminal charges. If they have then they would deserve all they get.
Rather it may be that the Premier league criteria are in some way different from the UEFA criteria such that compliance with UEFA rules, which CAS confirmed was the case, does not necessarily mean that we would not be in breach of PL rules. If that is so then it makes something of a mockery of the whole thing anyway.
In my opinion unless there is some technical breach of PL rules because of such difference, or there is additional evidence of which CAS were not aware, then in view of City’s confidence it seems likely that, apart from non cooperation, we should be ok. As to non cooperation our Counsel will no doubt have powerful reasons to put forward on City’s behalf (eg fishing expedition) for not producing whatever documents are in question.
Also it beggars belief that the PL charges give the appearance of having been prepared by the office junior (no disrespect to that job) without at least checking that the rules we are accused of breaching related to the correct year! But nevertheless that’s what they did.
The huge investment by City in the north stand etc. is not consistent with an organisation knowing it is doomed to massive penalties eg. relegation 2 or 3 years down the line.
An earlier poster (Tolmies hairdo if memory serves) suggests a deal may have been offered in the current proceedings. If it has, and City turned it down, then it is equivalent to their stance in the UEFA fiasco which was absolutely the right call.
Nor can I accept readily that these proceedings have been brought purely on the basis of a vendetta by the red tops. They must, for goodness sake, have taken advice before issuing the proceedings or if they haven’t, which as I say I think is highly unlikely, then more fool them. They may well have been advised their chances were iffy, but maybe, like City, they want the whole stinking mess sorted once and for all whatever the outcome.
I believe City are a highly competent outfit who will have taken the best possible advice, and are vigorously defending the allegations on the basis of that advice.
As in tax law, avoidance may be morally questionable, but not illegal, and by the same token a legitimate workaround to minimise the impact on their business of unfair PL rules could be acceptable whereas fraudulently cooking the books would not be.
The tragedy of all this for us fans is that it takes the shine off a breathtaking, groundbreaking past 15 years or so for which the club has received fuck all credit when they should have been praised for the transformation of the way the game is played and the positive impact worldwide on the Premier League “product.
In summary I think (hope) there are grounds for optimism, but it still doesn’t rid me of the nagging worry of why???
 
Hey chaps.

As you can guess from my input this issue is one I find fascinating and I hope that my input is viewed as constructive because that’s my intention
As it’s obvious I am not a City supporter I am desperately trying not to be too judgmental but if I stray too far from just discussing process please point it out

Your posts are excellent mate. I have very basic to almost non existent knowledge of this stuff so I think it actually helps having an outsider (boo, hiss) who is clearly knowledgeable on the subject - and who's main motive doesn't appear to be to stick the boot in - engage in discussion with some of our legal eagles and accountancy type posters on here.

It's fascinating reading the to and fro, sadly for me every time any of you speak it sounds plausible so I end up "liking" posts on both sides of the discussion.
 
They where not provided outside the country that the allegation he claimed to provide and service and be paid outside this country but was in fact paid outside this one for work done in this one

Allegation shmallegation. What evidence do you think the PL has about where he provided the services compared to, say, the evidence the club has?
 

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