England wasting one of the most talented squads ever assembled on Southgate

dennishasdoneit said:
Pep tried to sign Rice..I'm pretty sure our manager is not interested In average, one paced players.
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At the time England, under waistcoat, played the two holding midfielders. Phillips and Plodder. I couldn't split them and at the time we had an ancient player in Fernandinho, on his own, doing the job of those two in midfield, in a tougher situation. Phillips actually got England's player of the year which indicated he was the better of the two (I thought both were rubbish and have presumably been proved correct with Phillips). However, one signed for City so automatically became worse and one signed for Arsenal and morphed into the dogs bollocks.
Fortunately we only spent £40m on Phillips and not £100m+ on a plodder.
 
TonyColemansbagofapples said:
At the time England, under waistcoat, played the two holding midfielders. Phillips and Plodder. I couldn't split them and at the time we had an ancient player in Fernandinho, on his own, doing the job of those two in midfield, in a tougher situation. Phillips actually got England's player of the year which indicated he was the better of the two (I thought both were rubbish and have presumably been proved correct with Phillips). However, one signed for City so automatically became worse and one signed for Arsenal and morphed into the dogs bollocks.
Fortunately we only spent £40m on Phillips and not £100m+ on a plodder.
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To be fair.....I like the cut of your argument Sir.;)
 
Remember hearing some interview in 2018 that Steve Holland came to Southgate and told him to play 3-5-2 - we played 3-5-2 with Walker RCB that WC.

Can't help but think, and been thinking it ever since we rolled over against Italy in a Final 1-0 in Wembley that Steve Holland is actually more the 'brains' behind this England side on the pitch.

There is no tactical plan, or identity to how England play - or thought to how players even link up. Southgate stands by having a together unite of a 23 man squad - but what's that actually achieving?
 
TonyColemansbagofapples said:
At the time England, under waistcoat, played the two holding midfielders. Phillips and Plodder. I couldn't split them and at the time we had an ancient player in Fernandinho, on his own, doing the job of those two in midfield, in a tougher situation. Phillips actually got England's player of the year which indicated he was the better of the two (I thought both were rubbish and have presumably been proved correct with Phillips). However, one signed for City so automatically became worse and one signed for Arsenal and morphed into the dogs bollocks.
Fortunately we only spent £40m on Phillips and not £100m+ on a plodder.
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I’d rather spend 100 million on a player that’s of use than 40 on a player that is no use at all. Phillips hasn’t been labelled shit because he came to us, he really is shit which is clear to Pep and the fans. Rice, although not displacing Rodri, would have made good cover for him. Instead we’re likely going to make a loss on Phillips and have to spend more on another because he’s that bad.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
England in 2023

Played: 9
Won: 8
Drawn: 1
Lost: 0
For: 25
Against: 4
Opposition included: European Champions, World Cup Last 16, European Championship last 8, local rivals away, team that have won in Italy and Germany.

‘England are terrible’
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Even when we win its fuckin shite
 
Shite again.

How can you expect to play the ball out from the back with players as limited as Maguire and Guehi. So slow to get any sort of passing move going.

I'm sure that Saka just refuses to pass to Foden too. Rice and TAA didn't offer much in the way of control or creativity either.
 
Sibierskii said:
Even when we win its fuckin shite
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I don’t know, international footie is definitely less entertaining than the PL. but out those wins we had the two wins v Italy, 3-1 away to Scotland, 7-0 Macedonia ,4-0 Malta and 2-0 Ukraine. Can only play what’s in front of you but them games were a good watch.
 
England have gone a calendar year unbeaten for only the fourth time in the last fifty years.

Their record (W8, D2) is better than the previous in 2011 (W6, D3), 1994
(W4, D2) and 1989 (W5, D5).
 
A good manager produces a team which is greater than its parts. Southgate gets, at best, 40% out of what he can choose from. Maguire, Rashford, Alexander-Arnold in midfield, Guehi, bloody hell. Get Saka to pass the bloody ball. Get Plodder to pass the ball forward. Gallagher ahead of Foden most games. It really is so, so frustrating. Then he comes on the TV and blabbers on about the successful campaign and how well we've managed the game. No, sorry Gareth, what you serve up match after match is absolute shite. No plan B, no plan A. You're absolutely clueless with a nodding dog for an assistant. Steve bloody Holland. Another muppet. The sooner you two fuck off the better.
Just thought I'd let you know I tend to see a different game to Blue Hammer.
 
How or where has Southgate tested himself against the top sides tactically week in week out? Throw in Steve Holland, he's not been working at the top of football since Chelsea/Conte 2016. (Steve Holland coach under Mourinho/Rafa/Conte)

The FA thought they could be at the avant garde with St. George's, winning U17,U20 tournaments few years ago - but the key figures of Southgate and Holland are still stuck in 2016.

Football has changed beyond recognition since Southgate last had a club job. I think football has become more pragmatic - whether that be with the ball, or without it. Years ago under Sven, Capello, McLaren we'd have easily turned over Macedonia away 4-0 - we have better players, their not tactically smart etc.

Southgate's England have run with that footballing pragmatism, but has never born any of the attacking freedom or luxury that Pep or even Mourinho pioneered.

My main point that I'd like talk on - Tactic/identity wise that I've noticed for a while now, compared to top European teams is how Pep described - the ball moves to the players. Southgate's football is totally the opposite - Rice running to break a midfield press/line, years ago it was Maguire running into mf to overload.

Southgate/Holland copy trends tactically, they have zero idea how they actually want England to play. TAA played midfield, then RB as a inverted RB because copy what Klopp does, now a b2b midfielder? Foden doesn't play at all, then out of position off the right, now centrally.

Watkins is pony - with a manager smart enough, I'd happily think of playing Bellingham as a roaming 9 in case Kane/when gets broken. I get why Southgate is persisting with Rashford - he's a quality player somewhere in his ether - but never on the left without a Roberto Carlos esq overlapping LB.
 
TonyColemansbagofapples said:
A good manager produces a team which is greater than its parts. Southgate gets, at best, 40% out of what he can choose from. Maguire, Rashford, Alexander-Arnold in midfield, Guehi, bloody hell. Get Saka to pass the bloody ball. Get Plodder to pass the ball forward. Gallagher ahead of Foden most games. It really is so, so frustrating. Then he comes on the TV and blabbers on about the successful campaign and how well we've managed the game. No, sorry Gareth, what you serve up match after match is absolute shite. No plan B, no plan A. You're absolutely clueless with a nodding dog for an assistant. Steve bloody Holland. Another muppet. The sooner you two fuck off the better.
Just thought I'd let you know I tend to see a different game to Blue Hammer.
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Happen to think Steve Holland is the brainchild behind this England team. He was the influence for Southgate to play 3 at the back in 2018WC - with Walker at RCB. Wonder where he got that idea from - Conte/Chelsea/Azplicueta....
 
Bruno37 said:
How or where has Southgate tested himself against the top sides tactically week in week out? Throw in Steve Holland, he's not been working at the top of football since Chelsea/Conte 2016. (Steve Holland coach under Mourinho/Rafa/Conte)

The FA thought they could be at the avant garde with St. George's, winning U17,U20 tournaments few years ago - but the key figures of Southgate and Holland are still stuck in 2016.

Football has changed beyond recognition since Southgate last had a club job. I think football has become more pragmatic - whether that be with the ball, or without it. Years ago under Sven, Capello, McLaren we'd have easily turned over Macedonia away 4-0 - we have better players, their not tactically smart etc.

Southgate's England have run with that footballing pragmatism, but has never born any of the attacking freedom or luxury that Pep or even Mourinho pioneered.

My main point that I'd like talk on - Tactic/identity wise that I've noticed for a while now, compared to top European teams is how Pep described - the ball moves to the players. Southgate's football is totally the opposite - Rice running to break a midfield press/line, years ago it was Maguire running into mf to overload.

Southgate/Holland copy trends tactically, they have zero idea how they actually want England to play. TAA played midfield, then RB as a inverted RB because copy what Klopp does, now a b2b midfielder? Foden doesn't play at all, then out of position off the right, now centrally.

Watkins is pony - with a manager smart enough, I'd happily think of playing Bellingham as a roaming 9 in case Kane/when gets broken. I get why Southgate is persisting with Rashford - he's a quality player somewhere in his ether - but never on the left without a Roberto Carlos esq overlapping LB.
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Copy what Klopp does?
Rashford a quality player?
 
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