England wasting one of the most talented squads ever assembled on Southgate

[Alan Harper's Tash]

He won the UEFA cup which is a level above the Conference League wet sham won..

Thought he lost to Sevilla in the UEL on penalties and waited for Anthony Taylor in the car park.

 

[TonyColemansbagofapples]

Southgate is great at copying concepts without actually knowing why they work or how to make them work. He see's the inverted full back and thinks, I like this, picks someone to play the role but doesnt actually drill patterns of play to enable it to be effective. We just play the same but with the full back in midfield next to the other 2 defensive mids.

How much preparation goes into these changes of formation were laid bare a couple of weeks ago when Pep was asked about Nunes playing the Rodri role. He answered by saying he hadn't yet grasped it and wasn't ready. That gormless twat Southgate thinks you can just pick the limited simpleton TAA and stick him in the middle and he can do a Johnny Boulders or Rico Lewis. Of course the media don't lambast him for it because to do that, as in the example of Rico not getting due credit in this mornings papers, would give Pep (and by association City) some faint sort of praise.

 

[supercity88]

Absolutely. This is where supporters and critics of Southgate seem to be different.

I want him gone. I think he's wearing a tactical straight-jacket rather than a waistcoat. He seems unable to read a game and adapt in-game accordingly. He's too loyal to players like Henderson and more so Maguire. In fact, I think he's massively responsible for the bullying that Maguire endured a month or two ago. He makes his stupid rules up as he goes along such as not playing certain players in certain positions and then ignoring his own rules when it suits. He plays players who are out of form for far too long because "they've never let him down" but leave in form players out for far too long like Anthony Gordon, Raheem Sterling and Sean Longstaff.

I am prepared however, to accept that his tournament record has been decent compared to previous managers and he deserves credit for it. It's ok to say we should have won those games, but under previous managers, we wouldn't have won those games.

There's the difference. Southgate's supporters, particularly on here, seem to refuse to accept any criticism of him and merely write out his tournament record or results from this year in reply to every negative post about him.

I'm willing to give him this last tournament. I think it's right he takes the team considering they've qualified together and very comfortably - which isn't a given as much as some would say otherwise.

Tactically against France we were much better. Without going into details we had plenty of chances to win that game. He was positive and proactive with his changes.

He could have kept Maguire out of the limelight rather than blame fans for booing but too many get upset by what he says. It's all irrelevant and doesn't need dwelling on. Brazil and Belgium will be interesting tests in March and we'll see what draw we get and how things pan out next summer. But there are plenty of excellent young players coming through for a new manager to work with.

 

[Cellarite]

I'm willing to give him this last tournament. I think it's right he takes the team considering they've qualified together and very comfortably - which isn't a given as much as some would say otherwise.

Tactically against France we were much better. Without going into details we had plenty of chances to win that game. He was positive and proactive with his changes.

He could have kept Maguire out of the limelight rather than blame fans for booing but too many get upset by what he says. It's all irrelevant and doesn't need dwelling on. Brazil and Belgium will be interesting tests in March and we'll see what draw we get and how things pan out next summer. But there are plenty of excellent young players coming through for a new manager to work with.

I’d agree with that, even though my instinct tells me we’re writing off another winnable tournament by doing it.

 

[domalino]

He's (Southgate) very lucky that pragmatism and boring football (defensive) is what wins you tournaments and also that it's essentially a given that you'll qualify considering the level of opposition you come up against in qualifiers.

1) Qualification is a given? Tell that to Italy and the Netherlands.

2) Have you considered that if pragmatic, boring, defensive football was not successful in tournaments, Southgate wouldn't play that way?

 

[Blue Til Death]

Thought he lost to Sevilla in the UEL on penalties and waited for Anthony Taylor in the car park.

Oh yeah, my apologies, you are correct mate, he did exactly that and they were lobbing chairs at him at the airport :-)

 

[hilts]

That's missing my original point in the whole conversation.

It was that i think Mourinho would make a good international manager (not just for England) because he knows how to get through tournaments, hence his record, even getting to finals or winning them at his last 3 clubs, none of which were great teams. He's won the europa conference and got the UEFA Cup final in his first two seasons at Roma, so he still does well in tournament football.

Plus he doesn't have much time to be a dick or build bad relationships because he isn't working with them on a weekly basis.

Nobody is saying he's as successful at club level like he once was, but if you wanted a guy with a lots of winning experience (18 out of 22 finals he's reached) and knows how to navigate through to finals and you're not working with them every week, I can barely think of anyone that fits the bill more.

He wouldn't have lost both that Croatia game or Italy game. He would've gotten over the line in at least one.

I don't, we disagree it happens

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Oh yeah, my apologies, you are correct mate, he did exactly that and they were lobbing chairs at him at the airport :-)

Still, he’s not dull, is he?! Well, apart from his football.

 

[supercity88]

I’d agree with that, even though my instinct tells me we’re writing off another winnable tournament by doing it.

Possibly. Time will tell, but I'm not sure upheaval and a change in management will reap any rewards at this late stage in any case. I also don't think this England squad is as good as the hype. When you think back to the 2000s and the level those players were playing at - probably in the top 5 in their positions in the world - now that was a great side. We've got a lot of very good young players and some world class talent, but in terms of winning CL's for their clubs and performing on the biggest stage consistently - I'm not so sure. Stones is probably the only one who ticks that box. Walker too. Phil hasn't consistently performed or won big games for City to be on that list yet. Kane possibly could be but hasn't won a sausage.

 

[BlueHammer85]

England wins by 3+ goals at major championships.

1950-2017: 5
( 3-0, 3-0, 4-1, 3-0, 3-0)

2018-2023: 5

( 6-1, 4-0, 6-2, 3-0, 3-0).

such boring football under southgate. So negative and everything goes backwards

 

[jimharri]

England wins by 3+ goals at major championships.

1950-2017: 5
( 3-0, 3-0, 4-1, 3-0, 3-0)

2018-2023: 5

( 6-1, 4-0, 6-2, 3-0, 3-0).

such boring football under southgate. So negative and everything goes backwards

Regular as clockwork.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

England wins by 3+ goals at major championships.

1950-2017: 5
( 3-0, 3-0, 4-1, 3-0, 3-0)

2018-2023: 5

( 6-1, 4-0, 6-2, 3-0, 3-0).

such boring football under southgate. So negative and everything goes backwards

When did international competitions expand to have crap teams like Panama and their likes qualify?

 

[BlueHammer85]

When did international competitions expand to have crap teams like Panama and their likes qualify?

There’s always been ‘crap’ teams in international competitions. Can only beat what’s in front of you.

 

[domalino]

When did international competitions expand to have crap teams like Panama and their likes qualify?

1950s.

South Korea were in 1954 and lost 9-0 and 7-0 in their 2 games.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

1950s.

South Korea were in 1954 and lost 9-0 and 7-0 in their 2 games.

What were our resluts against them?

 

[domalino]

What were our resluts against them?

Are you just going to keep changing the question until you get an answer you like?

Because I'm afraid as long as there's been international football there's been shite teams, and the entire point of @BlueHammer85's comment was that Southgate is responsible for our biggest wins against shite teams, so If I went back and looked up England beating some 100th in the world ranked teams 2-0 int he 50s and 60s it would only further his point, not yours.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Are you just going to keep changing the question until you get an answer you like?

Because I'm afraid as long as there's been international football there's been shite teams, and the entire point of @BlueHammer85's comment was that Southgate is responsible for our biggest wins against shite teams, so If I went back and looked up England beating some 100th in the world ranked teams 2-0 int he 50s and 60s it would only further his point, not yours.

Just more proportionally because more teams qualify.

So you can enjoy your South Korea moment all you like.

 

[domalino]

Just more proportionally because more teams qualify.

So you can enjoy your South Korea moment all you like.

There's a few in every tournament pretty much from the start. India were invited to 1950 FFS. North Korea were in '66. There has always been shit teams and there always will be.

THe same is true for international goalscorers by the way. The people who argue Kane's record isn't worth the paper it's written on because we only play San Marino or Andorra etc. should see who Bobby Charlton et al were scoring against. Often it was literally rank amateurs.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

There's a few in every tournament pretty much from the start. India were invited to 1950 FFS. North Korea were in '66.

Yes. I understand this. I also understand that more teams qualifying means more shit teams qualify as a result and sides play more easy games than they used to.

 

[super_city_si]

England wins by 3+ goals at major championships.

1950-2017: 5
( 3-0, 3-0, 4-1, 3-0, 3-0)

2018-2023: 5

( 6-1, 4-0, 6-2, 3-0, 3-0).

such boring football under southgate. So negative and everything goes backwards

Euros had 8 then 16 teams for most of that and world cup expanded to 32 in 1998. Competition was harder back then, especially the Euros. You cant honestly say England dont play boring football under Southgate. You can rightly point to Southgates record but come on, the football is turgid