PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

I am going to assume the Independent Tribunal will have some integrity. If that is the case, it is entirely possible that the tribunal will have viewed the PL's evidence already. On viewing the lack of evidence they advise the PL that there is nothing to see and ask the PL how they would like to proceed. The PL then realise that they have to enact a damage limitation option. They approach City for a settlement. City say get to fuck in the nicest possible way. The PL close the process with some bonkers climb down. Klopp spits his teeth out and Fergie's head explodes...if you've seen Scanners the movie you will know what I mean. The Telegraph suggested there would be a big development this coming week. This is my wild guess as to what may happen. I am totally not in the know and slightly mad.
 
Ric said:
I imagine all of the criticism about how long the process is taking, from fans, pundits and journalists alike, must be stinging the PL. As mentioned previously, it’s causing considerable reputational damage to them now. Are they really going to try and ride it out for the next 18 months?

I guess the only way they could plausibly expedite the process would be to drop some of the harder to prove charges or try and strike a deal, but that seems highly improbable. Not even sure if that’s possible now that it’s been referred to an independent commission?! What a mess they’ve got themselves into.
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As the government chair lady said to Masters and Parry -'You two don't know what your doing"
 
TheMagicDragon said:
Thanks pal. Not sure what the other guy is on tbh. Odd.

I've been reading a guy on Twitter, Russell Scott and that's what's piqued my interest. The way he puts it, it's cut and dried and involves high level conspiracy and cover ups. Sounds crazy tbh. If it was all true, surely City would already have been brought to book and punished accordingly? A lot of Liverpool fans I know are already counting titles they're going to be given "when justice is served". They almost sound desperate.
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Pay no attention mate. We've a problem on this forum with ManUre fans joining & posing as City fans, so there's a unhinged level of paranoia with some around here. I take people as I find until they give me a reason to believe otherwise.

It's not cut & dried pal. In 2018/19, we faced the same charges with UEFA as we do now, were found guilty, fined £30m & given a 2 year Champions League ban, which was suspended, pending our appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

On appeal, CAS found us not guilty on all charges, aside from non-cooperation for which we were fined £10m.

Because of our 2014 experience with UEFA/G14, City decided it was pointless showing our hand to them during their investigation stage again, as they would use our evidence to amend their accusations & rules to nail us, exactly as they did in 2014. Yup! That's exactly what they did, hence the zero trust between City & UEFA/G14.

UEFA made their accusations against us based on 6 emails, from over 5 million stolen from us by the notorious Portuguese hacker Rui Pinto.

Of the six emails revealed by the German rag Der Spiegel, two were spliced together from various emails sent a couple of years apart, which gave an out of context view of a sponsorship deal we had with Etisalat.

Once the original emails were viewed with an explanation from City, CAS quickly realised UEFA/G14 had zero actual evidence to backup their claims that our owner injected equity funding into City, disguised as sponsorship.

Essentially what happened was the telecommunications giant Etisalat had a sponsorship agreement with City worth £15m per season over its duration. In 2012/13, we needed to show that money in our account to comply with FFP, so asked Etisalat if they could pay it ahead of schedule.

They couldn’t, but agreed if it could be paid by a bridging loan, they'd be fine with that as they could settle that loan when the original payment schedule ended.

One of the internal City emails between two executives discussed this & it was stated if HRH could source the bridging loan on Etisalat's behalf. Enter UAE financier Jaber Mohammed, who struck a bridging loan deal with Etisalat.

Mohammed paid £15m in 2012 & £15m in 2013 to City which helped us meet FFP. In 2015 when Etisalat's deal ended, they paid Jaber Mohammed back & satisfied the terms of the bridging loan agreement.

Hopefully you're still following me up to this point? :-)

HOWEVER, when this stolen email came to the attention of UEFA/G14, they accused City of getting our owner Sheikh Mansour to pay Jaber Mohammed, who paid City which they claim essentially meant Sheikh Mansour injected money into Manchester City, but disguised it as sponsorship funds from Etisalat.

When asked for evidence of this by CAS, UEFA/G14 didn't have any. They merely connected the dots & made the accusation on their balance of probabilities, based on zero physical evidence, hence why CAS threw their claim out & totally exonerated City.

There was also a claim that City paid part of Roberto Mancini's wages off the books again to circumnavigate FFP. Mancini had an consultancy agreement with ADUG (the company who own City Football Group) to act as a consultant to the Abu Dhabi Football Club - Al Jazira Club worth £1.7m per season.

This was all above board, but UEFA/G14 opined this was done to keep the £1.7m off the books to help City meet FFP requirements. Mancini was on £2m per season basic at City, plus generous bonuses, which pushed his wages closer to £5m per season, but UEFA/G14 still stuck by their claim & added this to City's list of breaches, but again offered zero actual evidence.

Essentially, UEFA/G14 were accusing the Abu Dhabi Royal Family, Roberto Mancini, Etisalat, Etihad Airways & several other high profile multinational companies & huge conglomerates of organised fraud on an industrial scale, BUT without using the word fraud, which would turn their FFP rule "breaches" into a criminal matter, therefore taking it out of their hands & into the hands of the law.

They've inferred all sorts, but never once dared use the word fraud, realising the ramifications if they did. They offered zero actual evidence either, which perfectly highlights the difference between their FFP "Rules" & UK Law.

Their FFP rules are essentially no different to the rules of a private members club. It's like them wanting to sanction a private club member for not washing up their teacup after use. That maybe their club rule, but not washing up your teacup isn't against UK Law.

This is why City are in favour of IREF, the Independent Regulator for English Football, & the Premiere League are dead set against it. Once FFP is looked at through the eyes of UK Law, it doesn't stand a chance. In what other sphere of business isn't a wealthy owner allowed to invest what he likes into his business?

There's a lot more to our situation, but I've tried to give you the most concise answer I can without explaining chapter & verse, going back to the beginning of our charges in 2009.

We just want to play football, but our fans have been forced to become lay-accountants merely to understand our situation. Hopefully this helps. )(
 
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Dribble said:
Pay no attention mate. We've a problem on this forum with ManUre fans joining & posing as City fans, so there's a unhinged level of paranoia with some around here. I take people as I find until they give me a reason to believe otherwise.

It's not cut & dried pal. In 2018/19, we faced the same charges with UEFA as we do now, were found guilty, fined £30m & given a 2 year Champions League ban, which was suspended, pending our appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

On appeal, CAS found us not guilty on all charges, aside from non-cooperation for which we were fined £10m.

Because of our 2014 experience with UEFA/G14, City decided it was pointless showing our hand to them during their investigation stage again, as they would use our evidence to amend their accusations & rules to nail us, exactly as they did in 2014. Yup! That's exactly what they did, hence the zero trust between City & UEFA/G14.

UEFA made their accusations against us based on 6 emails, from over 5 million stolen from us by the notorious Portuguese hacker Rui Pinto.

Of the six emails revealed by the German rag Der Spiegel, two were spliced together from various emails sent a couple of years apart, which gave an out of context view of a sponsorship deal we had with Etisalat.

Once the original emails were viewed with an explanation from City, CAS quickly realised UEFA/G14 had zero actual evidence to backup their claims that our owner injected equity funding into City, disguised as sponsorship.

Essentially what happened was the telecommunications giant Etisalat had a sponsorship agreement with City worth £15m per season over its duration. In 2012/13, we needed to show that money in our account to comply with FFP, so asked Etisalat if they could pay it ahead of schedule.

They couldn’t, but agreed if it could be paid by a bridging loan, they'd be fine with that as they could settle that loan when the original payment schedule ended.

One of the internal City emails between two executives discussed this & it was stated if HRH could source the bridging loan on Etisalat's behalf. Enter UAE financier Jaber Mohammed, who struck a bridging loan deal with Etisalat.

Mohammed paid £15m in 2012 & £15m in 2013 to City which helped us meet FFP. In 2015 when Etisalat's deal ended, they paid Jaber Mohammed back & satisfied the terms of the bridging loan agreement.

Hopefully you're still following me up to this point? :-)

HOWEVER, when this stolen email came to the attention of UEFA/G14, they accused City of getting our owner Sheikh Mansour to pay Jaber Mohammed, who paid City which they claim essentially meant Sheikh Mansour injected money into Manchester City, but disguised it as sponsorship funds from Etisalat.

When asked for evidence of this by CAS, UEFA/G14 didn't have any. They merely connected the dots & made the accusation on their balance of probabilities, based on zero physical evidence, hence why CAS threw their claim out & totally exonerated City.

There was also a claim that City paid part of Roberto Mancini's wages off the books again to circumnavigate FFP. Mancini had an consultancy agreement with ADUG (the company who own City Football Group) to act as a consultant to the Abu Dhabi Football Club - Al Jazira Club worth £1.7m per season.

This was all above board, but UEFA/G14 opined this was done to keep the £1.7m off the books to help City meet FFP requirements. Mancini was on £2m per season basic at City, plus generous bonuses, which pushed his wages closer to £5m per season, but UEFA/G14 still stuck by their claim & added this to City's list of breaches, but again offered zero actual evidence.

Essentially, UEFA/G14 were accusing the Abu Dhabi Royal Family, Roberto Mancini, Etisalat, Etihad Airways & several other high profile multinational companies & huge conglomerates of organised fraud on an industrial scale, BUT without using the word fraud, which would turn their FFP rule "breaches" into a criminal matter, therefore taking it out of their hands & into the hands of the law.

They've inferred all sorts, but never once dared use the word fraud, realising the ramifications if they did. They offered zero actual evidence either, which perfectly highlights the difference between their FFP "Rules" & UK Law.

Their FFP rules are essentially no different to the rules of a private members club. It's like them wanting to sanction a private club member for not washing up their teacup after use. That maybe their club rule, but not washing up your teacup isn't against UK Law.

This is why City are in favour of IREF, the Independent Regulator for English Football, & the Premiere League are dead set against it. Once FFP is looked at through the eyes of UK Law, it doesn't stand a chance. In what other sphere of business isn't a wealthy owner not allowed to invest what he likes into his business?

There's a lot more to our situation, but I've tried to give you the most concise answer I can without explaining chapter & verse, going back to the beginning of our charges in 2009.

We just want to play football, but our fans have been forced to become lay-accountants merely to understand our situation. Hopefully this helps. )(
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Appreciate you taking the time to put it all in one place, v helpful.

Do the premier league have a death wish, or are they plain stupid or can they attack with a different angle? Not expecting answers from anyone, am just baffled that after UEFA and CAS they continued with their investigation.
 
Zinchilla said:
Appreciate you taking the time to put it all in one place, v helpful.

Do the premier league have a death wish, or are they plain stupid or can they attack with a different angle? Not expecting answers from anyone, am just baffled that after UEFA and CAS they continued with their investigation.
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The PL are under huge pressure from the Red Top Mafia to nail City by any means necessary, so have used a curious quirk to come after us on the same charges as UEFA/G14 did.

UEFA is made up of European Football Associations (or in England's case the Premier League). Once UEFA accused us of not supplying true & accurate accounts to them & that flopped at CAS, the PL picked up the baton to come at us again, because it's not City who're registered to UEFA, but the PL on behalf of the clubs who qualify for UEFA competitions.

Essentially the PL are saying, "If City lied to UEFA, they essentially lied to the Premier League too, so on that basis we'll sanction them for the same breaches again, but hopefully with more success".

Apparently there's no double jeopardy rule in football, & UEFA/G14 & the PL believes they can do as they like. \0/
 
The mail saying that this fella Omar has nothing to do with the charges hanging over city lol. He was directly involved in sponsorships coming onboard.

This is a fucking national paper. The absolute shit they spout is on another level.

We all know the charges are bullshit and this move to the rags inadvertently proves it. Lying pricks who have driven hate towards every city fan.
 
Dribble said:
Because we're winning on the pitch where it ultimately matters & are innocent until proven guilty?

However if we weren't this successful, few of our sponsors would be arsed about us, but the fans are here & always will be, for better, for worse & it's they're who're emotionally effected by the bullshit being thrown at us..

City have been a major part of my life since 8 years old, so I'm not gonna lie & say the constant carping, accusations of illegality (UEFA/PL rule breaching), doesn't distract from our achievements during our golden era, which seriously pisses me off. It's a golden era I honestly never thought I'd see in my lifetime.

Imagine if City were an innocent immediate family member, whose face kept appearing on the front pages of the newspapers & headlining the news, with spurious claims & accusations every other day. Whether true or not, wouldn't it majorly piss you off too?

After years of being the butt of everyone's jokes, Pep's Manchester City have redefined the way football is played, & changed the English & global game forever with his inverted FB's, playing out from the back & possession based football. From amateur teams, the national team, to our main competitors, they're all following Guardiola's lead.

We've also rewritten the way how a responsible owner should act, & how club executives can become dynamic, class leading entrepreneurs with our global CFG multi-club model.

We've posted the highest football revenues in history, which are more than seven times what they were before HRH rocked up to East Manchester, yet all of these valid achievements are wrapped up in accusations of "City only achieved all this because their brown Muslim owner is a crooked, billionaire oil baron, & an industrial scale cheat".

According to our detractors, this is the only reason we've dominated UK & European football. But if you ask any of them what one of the 115 breaches are, they couldn't tell you, but yet we still only achieved what we have because we're cheats.

Our recent history & achievements will forever be tainted as such, so please have a bit of empathy & understanding toward fans who feel enraged about these insulting sleights, more than others.

Like I said, to some of us, City are a member of the family whom we've invested time, emotions & money that many can ill-afford. It's why it hurts many of us so much.

Just my personal take on it all. )(
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So winning on the pitch is all that matters & nothing that is insinuated. Rival fans who use it as a coping mechanism & bitter journalist, who are only interested in making money, are not worth worrying about
 
foggy1974 said:
So winning on the pitch is all that matters & nothing that is insinuated. Rival fans who use it as a coping mechanism & bitter journalist, who are only interested in making money, are not worth worrying about
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I'm not worried about the breaches, just pissed off we can't just concentrate & enjoy the football of our golden age, without City constantly getting dragged back into this FFP bollocks.

Some fans aren't bothered about our breaches or the possible ramifications if we're found guilty.

However, those who are bothered about the breaches, or worried about the ramifications if we're found in breach of the PL's rules, don't get on other fan's cases because they seemingly don't care enough, or at all.

It's different strokes mate, & personally I don't think all the fanny wipes jibes help when some of us are genuinely worried.

Personally I think the breaches are bollocks & I trust in Khaldoon & Co to prove this at the appointed time. However I do appreciate that many fellow City fans are seriously concerned, so there's nowt wrong with offering empathy & a soothing word or two, which I find a shitload more productive than labelling fellow blues fanny wipes.

Just my personal take mate.
 
avoidconfusion said:
My main concern is that there is no CAS this time. As I understand it we have no means to appeal?
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I think we have the chance of taking it to the High Court if we can show that the hearing was procedurally flawed. Other than that I think there is also a possibility of convening a new IC panel. But yeah, there is no CAS as such - I think this is effectively CAS for us in this case.*

* I have no legal knowledge so this may be wrong
 
Ric said:
I imagine all of the criticism about how long the process is taking, from fans, pundits and journalists alike, must be stinging the PL. As mentioned previously, it’s causing considerable reputational damage to them now. Are they really going to try and ride it out for the next 18 months?

I guess the only way they could plausibly expedite the process would be to drop some of the harder to prove charges or try and strike a deal, but that seems highly improbable. Not even sure if that’s possible now that it’s been referred to an independent commission?! What a mess they’ve got themselves into.
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The problem with that for the PL, is if they drop the hard to prove fraud how do they carry on with the lesser charges. Isn't the non cooperation linked mainly to us not passing on info for the disguised sponsorship charges & Mancini contract will be just as difficult to prove at a time we were losing 100s of millions each season
 
Ric said:
I think we have the chance of taking it to the High Court if we can show that the hearing was procedurally flawed. Other than that I think there is also a possibility of convening a new IC panel. But yeah, there is no CAS as such - I think this is effectively CAS for us in this case.*

* I have no legal knowledge so this may be wrong
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No, you're spot on as per my understanding. This is why I hope IREF comes to fruition sooner rather than later to end this farce. )(
 
Dribble said:
I'm not worried about the breaches, just pissed off we can't just concentrate & enjoy the football of our golden age, without City constantly getting dragged back into this FFP bollocks.

Some fans aren't bothered about our breaches or the possible ramifications if we're found guilty.

However, those who are bothered about the breaches, or worried about the ramifications if we're found in breach of the PL's rules, don't get on other fan's cases because they seemingly don't care enough, or at all.

It's different strokes mate, & personally I don't think all the fanny wipes jibes help when some of us are genuinely worried.

Personally I think the breaches are bollocks & I trust in Khaldoon & Co to prove this at the appointed time. However I do appreciate that many fellow City fans are seriously concerned, so there's nowt wrong with offering empathy & a soothing word or two, which I find a shitload more productive than labelling fellow blues fanny wipes.

Just my personal take mate.
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I don't have a problem with City fans being genuinely worried because it has the potential to destroy the club. Although it's not cut n' dried I was more worried about the uefa ban than this time around.

Saying that if it was costing the club reputational damage, its not showing as we've just won 5 trophies in a year & released record revenue. Would Silverlake have invested what they did without due diligence
 
foggy1974 said:
I don't have a problem with City fans being genuinely worried because it has the potential to destroy the club. Although it's not cut n' dried I was more worried about the uefa ban than this time around.

Saying that if it was costing the club reputational damage, its not showing as we've just won 5 trophies in a year & released record revenue. Would Silverlake have invested what they did without due diligence
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This is the point. Not only are they claiming City have lied to the Premier League, they're also claiming that they've implicated several high profile companies as well as presumably lying to investors in both America and China. That goes well beyond cheating in a game, and amounts to actual fraud, I would assume.
 
TheMagicDragon said:
Thanks pal. Not sure what the other guy is on tbh. Odd.

I've been reading a guy on Twitter, Russell Scott and that's what's piqued my interest. The way he puts it, it's cut and dried and involves high level conspiracy and cover ups. Sounds crazy tbh. If it was all true, surely City would already have been brought to book and punished accordingly? A lot of Liverpool fans I know are already counting titles they're going to be given "when justice is served". They almost sound desperate.
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Ask the Scouse cunts about the £50m they wrote off for new stadium costs, hacking databases & continually giving Parry assignments to fix the rules for his paymasters.

The real criminal behaviours has been lobbying rule makers to make it a closed shop for Rags, Dippers & Arsenal.

The lad Russell will be delusional & unlikely to have even read the CAS judgement where UEFA were told in 10 separate occasions there is no evidence & no we didn’t choose the judges & if they say ‘technicality’ tell him he’s too thick to talk to.
 
foggy1974 said:
I don't have a problem with City fans being genuinely worried because it has the potential to destroy the club. Although it's not cut n' dried I was more worried about the uefa ban than this time around.

Saying that if it was costing the club reputational damage, its not showing as we've just won 5 trophies in a year & released record revenue. Would Silverlake have invested what they did without due diligence
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Again, I couldn't tell you, but who's to know if Silverlake haven't got some type of clause inserted in our agreement?

The main point I'm making is I fully understand why some fans are genuinely shitting themselves, especially after what happened to Everton.

I just choose not to dismiss their concerns & call them fanny wipes & just wish others could be more understanding.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
This is the point. Not only are they claiming City have lied to the Premier League, they're also claiming that they've implicated several high profile companies as well as presumably lying to investors in both America and China. That goes well beyond cheating in a game, and amounts to actual fraud, I would assume.
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I am not a finance expert, but from my outlook it would be deemed actual fraud I would have thought.

And this is where the Premier League are going to have to need solid evidence, because the fallout could be bigger than just sport, surely?

It becomes something far bigger than a small committee can sentence, its national scale supreme court material I would have thought?

We are effectively been accused of artificially creating an overall revenue figure that never was and with that it attracted bigger demands from us for investment and sponsorship.

Certain sponsors and investors could claim that their agreed deals were over inflated by false figures presented to them and as a result they could demand compensation. I know I would if I was an investor or sponsor.

By doing so we would also have had to withheld information from one of the biggest auditors in the world. That would be a lawsuit, surely?

So many key personnel have to be involved within these shenanigans that the Premier League are basically going to have to prove we have a racketeering syndicate involved with City and a Emirati royal and vice president of a nation state is privy to it all. The political fallout from that for Mansour could be devastating.

I am only guessing here, like I said, I am no finance guy.
 
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