PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[spinney]

The context of "his say" will be entirely dependent upon the outcome of the IC

No case to answer he will say we have been vindicated in our stance that we did nothing wrong we now moved its the end of the matter and we now for the benefit of all

If the IC load punitive damages on the club then it will be all out war with City not having anything to loose in destroying the PL as we know it Pending an appeal

Please win ! - and then all out war to destroy them !

 

[r.soleofsalford]

Pay no attention mate. We've a problem on this forum with ManUre fans joining & posing as City fans, so there's a unhinged level of paranoia with some around here. I take people as I find until they give me a reason to believe otherwise.

It's not cut & dried pal. In 2018/19, we faced the same charges with UEFA as we do now, were found guilty, fined £30m & given a 2 year Champions League ban, which was suspended, pending our appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

On appeal, CAS found us not guilty on all charges, aside from non-cooperation for which we were fined £10m.

Because of our 2014 experience with UEFA/G14, City decided it was pointless showing our hand to them during their investigation stage again, as they would use our evidence to amend their accusations & rules to nail us, exactly as they did in 2014. Yup! That's exactly what they did, hence the zero trust between City & UEFA/G14.

UEFA made their accusations against us based on 6 emails, from over 5 million stolen from us by the notorious Portuguese hacker Rui Pinto.

Of the six emails revealed by the German rag Der Spiegel, two were spliced together from various emails sent a couple of years apart, which gave an out of context view of a sponsorship deal we had with Etisalat.

Once the original emails were viewed with an explanation from City, CAS quickly realised UEFA/G14 had zero actual evidence to backup their claims that our owner injected equity funding into City, disguised as sponsorship.

Essentially what happened was the telecommunications giant Etisalat had a sponsorship agreement with City worth £15m per season over its duration. In 2012/13, we needed to show that money in our account to comply with FFP, so asked Etisalat if they could pay it ahead of schedule.

They couldn’t, but agreed if it could be paid by a bridging loan, they'd be fine with that as they could settle that loan when the original payment schedule ended.

One of the internal City emails between two executives discussed this & it was stated if HRH could source the bridging loan on Etisalat's behalf. Enter UAE financier Jaber Mohammed, who struck a bridging loan deal with Etisalat.

Mohammed paid £15m in 2012 & £15m in 2013 to City which helped us meet FFP. In 2015 when Etisalat's deal ended, they paid Jaber Mohammed back & satisfied the terms of the bridging loan agreement.

Hopefully you're still following me up to this point? :-)

HOWEVER, when this stolen email came to the attention of UEFA/G14, they accused City of getting our owner Sheikh Mansour to pay Jaber Mohammed, who paid City which they claim essentially meant Sheikh Mansour injected money into Manchester City, but disguised it as sponsorship funds from Etisalat.

When asked for evidence of this by CAS, UEFA/G14 didn't have any. They merely connected the dots & made the accusation on their balance of probabilities, based on zero physical evidence, hence why CAS threw their claim out & totally exonerated City.

There was also a claim that City paid part of Roberto Mancini's wages off the books again to circumnavigate FFP. Mancini had an consultancy agreement with ADUG (the company who own City Football Group) to act as a consultant to the Abu Dhabi Football Club - Al Jazira Club worth £1.7m per season.

This was all above board, but UEFA/G14 opined this was done to keep the £1.7m off the books to help City meet FFP requirements. Mancini was on £2m per season basic at City, plus generous bonuses, which pushed his wages closer to £5m per season, but UEFA/G14 still stuck by their claim & added this to City's list of breaches, but again offered zero actual evidence.

Essentially, UEFA/G14 were accusing the Abu Dhabi Royal Family, Roberto Mancini, Etisalat, Etihad Airways & several other high profile multinational companies & huge conglomerates of organised fraud on an industrial scale, BUT without using the word fraud, which would turn their FFP rule "breaches" into a criminal matter, therefore taking it out of their hands & into the hands of the law.

They've inferred all sorts, but never once dared use the word fraud, realising the ramifications if they did. They offered zero actual evidence either, which perfectly highlights the difference between their FFP "Rules" & UK Law.

Their FFP rules are essentially no different to the rules of a private members club. It's like them wanting to sanction a private club member for not washing up their teacup after use. That maybe their club rule, but not washing up your teacup isn't against UK Law.

This is why City are in favour of IREF, the Independent Regulator for English Football, & the Premiere League are dead set against it. Once FFP is looked at through the eyes of UK Law, it doesn't stand a chance. In what other sphere of business isn't a wealthy owner not allowed to invest what he likes into his business?

There's a lot more to our situation, but I've tried to give you the most concise answer I can without explaining chapter & verse, going back to the beginning of our charges in 2009.

We just want to play football, but our fans have been forced to become lay-accountants merely to understand our situation. Hopefully this helps. )(

Thank you I understand even more now.

 

[train man]

Can't stand C*ntona, but the nonsense he spoke about fish following trawlers was never truer. And we are a big fucking trawler with a load of desperate, starving fish following, desperate for any scrap they can find before the ship sails off gleaming into the sunset.

I think it was seagulls following the trawler?
Well the media gulls, social and mainstream, have certainly dumped a lot of guano along the way...
Shithouses all!

 

[City Mike 1969]

He's mentioned this morning that he 'left his newspaper job' in November and he's now basically promoting his work on his substack site.

Similar to how Joey Barton sought to gain interest and followers just before launching a new podcast, Harris is just after people to sign up so throwing as much shite out there about us as he can. The more of a 'revelation' he can make any of it seem, the more money he'll get.

Can't stand C*ntona, but the nonsense he spoke about fish following trawlers was never truer. And we are a big fucking trawler with a load of desperate, starving fish following, desperate for any scrap they can find before the ship sails off gleaming into the sunset.

... I don't think fish are renowned for following trawlers, unless they're already snared in its nets.

 

[HelloCity]

Our owners aren't providing billions to the UK economy either though. Positive I've read your owners (indirectly) are very pally with the Tory government so maybe that will help in the long run? Either outcome is going to be a war - City are found innocent, every club who have been punished so far or have stuck by FFP and been denied trophies etc will be outraged. Then, if City are found guilty, there'll be a massive, lengthy process of appeals and legal wrangling.


Either way, it's absolutely tarnished the Premier League. We're only little Wrexham but I'm glad we've bypassed this era of the Premier League. It's all corrupt.

Why?

City's charges are nothing like Everton or Forest's charges.

They've admitted to losses of over £105m (the allowable amount) over a 3 year period but feel they should be able to write off more costs to meet the criteria.

City's case is an accusation of fraud over a 10 year period based heavily on screenshots of hacked emails.

Please educate yourself more before continuing to comment.

 

[KS55]

Yes, but I doubt it’ll be the “say” most City fans would like it to be.

Win or lose, he’s going to be forced to make a significant statement, but I doubt it will carry the vitriol with which most of us would wish it was soaked.

Mr. Cool will be measured and devastating.

 

[mattcity5]

... I don't think fish are renowned for following trawlers, unless they're already snared in its nets.

Fish, seagulls, minor difference.... :D

Good point, think I'll amend that...

 

[blue by birth]

The average non City fan swallows all the bullshit they read on social media etc about the charges from the Premier league.
Yesterday I was walking in Ashton wearing my City hat and some dickhead walked past and said " fucking cheats"
I said what the fuck you on about and he replied "everyone knows you cheat"
So I asked him what have we cheated at and its apparently that we pay the players off the books, basically cash in hand so to speak
I nearly pissed myself laughing and said so if we pay Haaland half a million a week cash in hand where the fuck does he stash it..under his fucking bed.
He had no answer to that nor to what exactly were the charges..turned out to be an Oldham fan..
He walked off when I said well it's unlikely the charges against us will have any bearing on you as you won't ever get back to the Premier league again.

 

[jamielowndes]

There’s no chance that we’ll be stripped of titles.

This is true. The level of illegal behaviour we'd have to be engaged in for this to happen is absurd.

It just got pedalled around when the news first broke and then opposition fans started dividing our trophies amongst themselves.

 

[City Mike 1969]

Fish, seagulls, minor difference.... :D

Good point, think I'll amend that...

...don't worry... it just shows how much attention you were actually paying to the rag tramp!

 

[City Mike 1969]

Thanks pal. Not sure what the other guy is on tbh. Odd.

A lot of Liverpool fans I know are already counting titles they're going to be given "when justice is served". They almost sound desperate.

The fact that you're claiming to be Welsh AND know a lot of liverpool supporters means I have absolutely no doubt that you are actually a Wrexham supporter...

 

[MillionMilesAway]

It’ll be interesting to see. You may well be right but I do think there is a narrative being established (slowly) that our case is completely different. Masters would have to go if our case was dropped or the charges diluted.

I think he'll go in the autumn, or will announce it then. He'll have been in place for 5 years by the end of 2024, so they can cover it by that.

 

[eastmanc]

Because we're serial cheats??!

Very good.

 

[eastmanc]

I think he'll go in the autumn, or will announce it then. He'll have been in place for 5 years by the end of 2024, so they can cover it by that.

He'll be gone before then.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

He'll be gone before then.

why do you say that?

 

[yeah whatever !!]

Because we're serial cheats??!

Cheerio ;)

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

The average non City fan swallows all the bullshit they read on social media etc about the charges from the Premier league.
Yesterday I was walking in Ashton wearing my City hat and some dickhead walked past and said " fucking cheats"
I said what the fuck you on about and he replied "everyone knows you cheat"
So I asked him what have we cheated at and its apparently that we pay the players off the books, basically cash in hand so to speak
I nearly pissed myself laughing and said so if we pay Haaland half a million a week cash in hand where the fuck does he stash it..under his fucking bed.
He had no answer to that nor to what exactly were the charges..turned out to be an Oldham fan..
He walked off when I said well it's unlikely the charges against us will have any bearing on you as you won't ever get back to the Premier league again.

I reckon some worry about the non City fans much too much and I do think the assumption that the whole world of football is talking about or even interested in City is, therefore, somewhat incorrect. Go on to most forums, excluding the ones who keep saying they never ever think about us and there’s virtually nothing. Maybe a mention here or there when the Everton stuff originally dropped, but generally, I’d say the interest and accusations are inversely proportionate to football‘s pyramid structure; your average football fan isn't in the slightest bit interested, as they shouldn’t be.

 

[Dribble]

Thanks for that pal. Weird how anyone asking any kind of question apart from "Why are City being persecuted for nothing?!" is instantly a wind up. What I will say is that if City are found innocent, the Premier League need suing. 115 charges is insane if not proven. On the other hand, with Everton being docked 10 points for a lesser charge, surely a guilty punishment would be huge? What are your thoughts on Everton and Forest btw? I'm wondering if the PL have made them patsies so they can slip these charges on City and then say "See, its not just you!".

Do you think stripping titles to appease the "bigger clubs" is the agenda?

No worries mate. We're generally a good bunch, but like all families we have an oddball or two. :-)

In terms of the 115 charges, it's actually more like 5 breaches recurring from 2009 up to 2018, with non-cooperation breaches added to every breach to dramatically bump things up for effect!

Someone gave a brilliant analogy saying imagine if you got into a fight & were charged with assault. You threw 20 punches, so were given an assault charge for every punch thrown. That's exactly what the PL have done with their breaches regarding City. Absolutely crazy!

As for Everton & Forest, their situation is totally different to ours. They've gone over their permitted losses & aren't contesting those breaches. However both are putting forward mitigating circumstance as to why they went beyond their permitted £105m loss over three seasons limit.

Everton are claiming issues to do with the pandemic & new stadium costs as mitigating circumstances, & Forest have been hit because two of the seasons affecting them were in the Championship, which has a £60m permitted losses over three seasons limit. If you recall, Forest had to buy a whole new squad the season they came up, as most of their promotion squad were loan players.

UEFA/G14 have made accusations of false accounting against City, & we've denied those accusations as I outlined to you previously, hence our situation being totally different & far more complex that those of Forest & Everton.

Fans of the "bigger clubs" are clamouring for our demotion to the Northwest Counties Sunday League, the stripping of every title & Cup won since 2009, a £1bn fine for every guilty breach (because our crooked owner can afford it), & for Haaland & Pep to be paraded naked to the gates of the dilapidated Old Toilet stadium & publicly flogged. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠⊙⁠_⁠ʖ⁠⊙⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

What opposition fans have failed to do is read beyond the sensationalist headlines & listen to anyone more coherent than the seriously unhinged Nick Harris who's apparently changed his name to Nick "City Are As Guilty As Fuck" Harris, to further get his anti-City agenda across.

Personally, I don't think the PL are driving this. Everone senses they know they're damaging their prized brand. It's the Red Top Mafia & Spuds who essentially run the PL who're behind this. The fans of Everton, Forest, Newcastle & Villa are slowly waking up to the reality of the situation & aren't happy.

Newcastle claim to be the richest club on the planet, but yet they can't afford the £7m loan fee City want for Kalvin Philips, through fear it'll tip them over the FFP edge.

However, ManUre & Spuds are in over £1bn debt each, but as long as they can make the bank repayments, they can spend several times the amount, debt-free Newcastle can. That's FFP/PSR for you!

FFP was never about debt. It was always about stopping City & PSG from challenging the European elite by creating a glass ceiling the chasing pack could never go beyond, hence protecting the hegemony of the G14 clubs.

The ongoing FFP/PSR gymnastics is all about further amending their rules to stop another City happening (as Newcastle & Villa are finding out), but in such a way it doesn't affect the Red Top Mafia & Spuds. It's a nasty business.

The issue the PL now have is that in constantly changing their rules so they can retrospectively keep going after City, everyone else is being caught up in their rules too, & they're threatening to kill by far the richest sporting league in history, all because of the Red Top Mafia & Spuds' deranged obsession of stopping City.

Look at this transfer window. Have you ever known one so quiet? Newcastle, Palace & WHU want Kalvin Philips on loan, but all are terrified of falling foul of FFP/PSR.

Ultimately, the PL are in the process of killing the goose which laid their golden egg, but if it stops City & an emerging Newcastle & Villa, the Red Top Mafia & Spuds don't care. Complete & utter madness! ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠⊙⁠_⁠ʖ⁠⊙⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

If a guilty verdict comes in (NOT SAYING IT WILL), most fans of Liverpool, Arsenal etc are saying that stripping of titles etc is an absolute must. That'd be absolutely devastating, wouldn't it? Can't see it myself.

Not fooling anyone on here.

 

[KS55]

The hearing is only there to deal with things that can't be dealt with via written submissions. They will set an agenda for the hearing once they've reviewed the written submissions from both parties in order to focus on the key issues, which will probably follow closely the key issues at CAS. We can then bring our witnesses along from the various sponsors who can say "that money came from us and not HHSM". And the panel will be left with hacked emails vs witness testimony and financial accounts to balance whether City are right or the PL are. The one thing I struggle with is how CAS only found 2-1 in our favour. With CAS we pick an arbiter, UEFA pick one and then CAS appoint one. So I'm guessing the UEFA arbiter found against us...I'm not sure how based on the evidence presented, but that's the one thing that causes me nervousness with this "independent" panel.

The guy voting against was German. A junior in his practice wrote a piece “proving” that City were guilty.
It is said that it is common practice at CAS for members of a panel not to vote against their own nominator if it would result in 3-0. Not sure just how true that is.