Keir Starmer

[Mr Kobayashi]

I'm pleased you're convinced, as that was the point I was making. Prior to Truss, Labour couldn't take any kind of win for granted.

Even after Truss, a huge part of the lead has been down to Reform surging, and ex-Tory voters saying they didn't know if they'd vote. Labour were polling around 40% before Truss, and have settled to around 44% over the past year.

Plenty of polling experts have been arguing the lead was still relatively fragile until relatively recently, and there was still an expectation that it might drop considerably as we got closer to an election. If you remember, after 2019, it was argued that Labour needed something like a 12% lead just to get a majority of 1 - that's a lead that could never have been guaranteed. The current strategy of targeting the centre, means that Labour have spread out the vote, and are likely to get a majority with a much smaller vote.

Do you think that's honest?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

So the levels of death have been unacceptable

I don't have a problem with reducing immigration the point is posters supporting Labour have thrown shit at anyone saying it and now captain creosote is saying it, where is there wrath? Yeah but err...... pmsl

No one can defend luke well maybe Bob and West

 

[bluenova]

So the levels of death have been unacceptable

I don't have a problem with reducing immigration the point is posters supporting Labour have thrown shit at anyone saying it and now captain creosote is saying it, where is there wrath? Yeah but err...... pmsl

No one can defend luke well maybe Bob and West

I understand your point about "level of deaths". I don't think there's any easy answer to an argument about what happens in a war. At some point if two parties have guns and bombs, and want to shoot at each other, then people are going to die. I'd rather that didn't happen, but whatever Keir Starmer does isn't going to stop it happening all over the world, every single day.

There's a difference between saying we have too many immigrants, and putting the ball in the net when there's an open goal available.

 

[bluenova]

Do you think that's honest?

"Honest" implies I've lied, when pretty much everything in that last post was factual about polling, rather than opinion.

So, what part do you think I'm lying about?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

"Honest" implies I've lied, when pretty much everything in that last post was factual about polling, rather than opinion.

So, what part do you think I'm lying about?

No, I'm asking you if you think that strategy is honest. I don't really care if a random bloke on bluemoon is honest or not.

Blaming Truss when they had already decided to get rid of all the policies isn't particularly honest.

 

[hilts]

I understand your point about "level of deaths". I don't think there's any easy answer to an argument about what happens in a war. At some point if two parties have guns and bombs, and want to shoot at each other, then people are going to die. I'd rather that didn't happen, but whatever Keir Starmer does isn't going to stop it happening all over the world, every single day.

There's a difference between saying we have too many immigrants, and putting the ball in the net when there's an open goal available.

Nobody thinks Starmer can stop the conflict, literally nobody but dismissing starving kids isn't fucking on and neither is posters claiming everyone who is worried about immigration must be a fucking racist.

Man up do you you accept kids dying and immigration control or not. Or are you that fucking sad that you can move between them as long as your guy gets in.

 

[bluenova]

No, I'm asking you if you think that strategy is honest. I don't really care if a random bloke on bluemoon is honest or not.

Blaming Truss when they had already decided to get rid of all the policies isn't particularly honest.

But they aren't just blaming Truss are they?

That interview came after Covid, which clearly had a huge effect on the economy. Truss had a huge negative effect too.

If now they focus on blaming Truss/The Tories more than Covid, that's always going to be the easier political argument. Are you really saying that you'd rather they gave her the benefit of the doubt, and said the Tories had a tough time with Covid and we shouldn't be too harsh? For the sake of honesty?

EDIT: ps. apologies for suggesting you thought I was lying - I misunderstood your point, and was a little surprised.

 

[bluenova]

Nobody thinks Starmer can stop the conflict, literally nobody but dismissing starving kids isn't fucking on and neither is posters claiming everyone who is worried about immigration must be a fucking racist.

Man up do you you accept kids dying and immigration control or not. Or are you that fucking sad that you can move between them as long as your guy gets in.

For someone who claims to constantly have the moral high ground, and be the one who "owns logic", you really are an abusive wanker on a regular basis. Anyone who replies more than a couple of times disagreeing with you, starts to get abuse in with their answers. Maybe count to ten occasionally.

Of course I don't accept kids dying, and every country in the world has immigration controls.

 

[The blue phantom]

The way he's dealt with Faiza Shaheen is as bad if not worse than his handling of Dianne Abbot. She's crestfallen on how he's stabbed her in the back.

What a Twat he is

 

[hilts]

For someone who pretends to be moral, and be the one who "owns logic", you really are an abusive wanker on a regular basis. Anyone who replies more than a couple of times disagreeing with you, starts to get abuse in with their answers. Maybe count to ten occasionally.

Of course I don't accept kids dying, and every country in the world has immigration controls.

See you can't argue the reasoning so you rely on insults. If someone can't argue based on decency and morals they get narky. You think people who are morally deficient deserve respect? You tell me why Starmer is a good guy, explain your reasoning rather than sneer.

Your whole argument is yeah I might support a tosser but why be mean to me. Err well don't support a tosser then.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

But they aren't just blaming Truss are they?

That interview came after Covid, which clearly had a huge effect on the economy. Truss had a huge negative effect too.

If now they focus on blaming Truss/The Tories more than Covid, that's always going to be the easier political argument. Are you really saying that you'd rather they gave her the benefit of the doubt, and said the Tories had a tough time with Covid and we shouldn't be too harsh? For the sake of honesty?

EDIT: ps. apologies for suggesting you thought I was lying - I misunderstood your point, and was a little surprised.

I don't care about them giving her the benefit of the doubt. What I do care about is Starmer lying to labour members, labour's base and promising nothing. The ends justifying the means only makes sense when something is actually delivered. They're telling us that birthdays and Christmas are cancelled for the next five years.

Starmer's current offer is a more competent conservative party whilst shagging flags.

Didn't Macron do something similar before becoming increasingly right-wing despite being voted in to prevent policies he now implements?

 

[bluenova]

See you can't argue the reasoning so you rely on insults. If someone can't argue based on decency and morals they get narky. You think people who are morally deficient deserve respect? You tell me why Starmer is a good guy, explain your reasoning rather than sneer.

Your whole argument is yeah I might support a tosser but why be mean to me. Err well don't support a tosser then.

"See you can't argue the reasoning so you rely on insults."

Go and read your own posts. Please.

 

[Vic]

Raising tax threshold where people start paying taxes. Furlough. Support of Ukraine. Vaccines program. Global tax regime work. I’ll even add gay marriages - the last thing you’d think a Tory government would bring in. Probably the big ones they did well off the top of my head.

Er - they've frozen thresholds, bringing lots more people into paying tax (at a cost to HMRC), and most pensioners will be over the threshold even if it's raised to cover the state pension.

Furlough - OK apart from all the people who didn't qualify on technical grounds.

Ukraine - they've probably exploited Ukraine as an excuse for inflation more than the cost of supporting Ukriane.

Vaccines? The only thing they did different was getting Astra Zenica tio break their contract with the EU.

Global tax regime? Some might think Brexit was to avoid the EU attempt at a level playing field.

Gay marriage? As pointed out, only carried because of Labour MPs

 

[hilts]

"See you can't argue the reasoning so you rely on insults."

Go and read your own posts. Please.

Don't need to my posts are based on what people write, your problem seems to be you don't like being called out on it. If you don't like being questioned try not posting thru bias and actually think about your position on things

 

[bluenova]

I don't care about them giving her the benefit of the doubt. What I do care about is Starmer lying to labour members, labour's base and promising nothing. The ends justifying the means only makes sense when something is actually delivered. They're telling us that birthdays and Christmas are cancelled for the next five years.

Starmer's current offer is a more competent conservative party whilst shagging flags.

Didn't Macron do something similar before becoming increasingly right-wing despite being voted in to prevent policies he now implements?

Ultimately we're never going to agree on this till we've seen what Labour do in power.

I feel pretty confident that Labour will be a huge improvement on the Tories, and I also believe, from everything I've read and listened to, that Starmer will be more radical than the last Labour government.

I assume we both want that, and right now I guess a lot of this argument is hypothetical. I'd be really surprised if Starmer morphs into Macron, but I understand you are a lot less confident, so it boils down to 'wait and see'.

 

[hilts]

Er - they've frozen thresholds, bringing lots more people into paying tax (at a cost to HMRC), and most pensioners will be over the threshold even if it's raised to cover the state pension.

Furlough - OK apart from all the people who didn't qualify on technical grounds.

Ukraine - they've probably exploited Ukraine as an excuse for inflation more than the cost of supporting Ukriane.

Vaccines? The only thing they did different was getting Astra Zenica tio break their contract with the EU.

Global tax regime? Some might think Brexit was to avoid the EU attempt at a level playing field.

Gay marriage? As pointed out, only carried because of Labour MPs

EU attempt at a level playing field? Oh my god well done on the most fucked up post on the politics forum.

 

[hilts]

Ultimately we're never going to agree on this till we've seen what Labour do in power.

I feel pretty confident that Labour will be a huge improvement on the Tories, and I also believe, from everything I've read and listened to, that Starmer will be more radical than the last Labour government.

I assume we both want that, and right now I guess a lot of this argument is hypothetical. I'd be really surprised if Starmer morphs into Macron, but I understand you are a lot less confident, so it boils down to 'wait and see'.

Name the radical policies

 

[bluenova]

Don't need to my posts are based on what people write, your problem seems to be you don't like being called out on it. If you don't like being questioned try not posting thru bias and actually think about your position on things

I'm quite happy to debate with you, up to the point where it descends into insults.

I'm far from the only person you've insulted today, and I'm sure tomorrow will bring more.

Feel free to have the last word.

 

[hilts]

I'm quite happy to debate with you, up to the point where it descends into insults.

I'm far from the only person you've insulted today, and I'm sure tomorrow will bring more.

Feel free to have the last word.

Yeah you post but say nothing. The lack of self awareness is staggering.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Anybody remember when he took over from Corbyn, nobody gave him a chance and the Tories were in for eternity.

How things have changed.