US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

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I have a reasonable (if fairly basic) understanding of the history of Russia’s relationship Ukraine - and vice versa, although I would suggest anti Russian sentiment in the unoccupied parts of Ukraine is at its apogee right now and with the advances in drone technology and guerrilla warfare in recent years I’m not sure it was be quite as straightforward as Russia simply rolling in.

With Zelensky gone, and the political chaos that would ensue, what kind of command and control would exist? What kind of armed services would Ukraine even have? What level of political control would exist in post Zelensky Kyiv? And what level of international support? As for guerrilla warfare, that might happen, it might make the occupation bloody but it won't end it.

Let's be frank, the Ukraine is slowly losing this war, and even if you disagree with me, no one believes she's winning. Even before Trump, support for this war was on the wane in the west, this is the reality of the situation.

Putin didn't wage this war to liberate the Russian majority provinces in Ukraine, he waged it to bring Ukraine back into the fold and If Trump imposes a settlement that is exactly what will happen.
 
I've already criticised it, and frankly I thought it would be a given that a crowd of blokes abusing a girl is wrong.
You’re in a huff because you think somehow people here don’t understand that this behavior is driven by being talked down to. We do understand — that’s no excuse. You have never once criticized that as a driver to the behavior.
 
With Zelensky gone, and the political chaos that would ensue, what kind of command and control would exist? What kind of armed services would Ukraine even have? What level of political control would exist in post Zelensky Kyiv? And what level of international support? As for guerrilla warfare, that might happen, it might make the occupation bloody but it won't end it.

Let's be frank, the Ukraine is slowly losing this war, and even if you disagree with me, no one believes she's winning. Even before Trump, support for this war was on the wane in the west, this is the reality of the situation.

Putin didn't wage this war to liberate the Russian majority provinces in Ukraine, he waged it to bring Ukraine back into the fold and If Trump imposes a settlement that is exactly what will happen.
Your scenario in your final paragraph is perfectly plausible, but not a fait accompli. You are making many assumptions which are presently unknown, not least the rest of NATO’s attitude to any US brokered deal. As I said previously there may have to be a major realignment in Europe’s relationship with the US, part of which will be the US having less say with what happens with Ukraine, especially given Russia’s manifest weakened military state, given they are now deploying North Korean forces.
 
Anyone noticed that all Trump's foreign policies seem to align with Putin's, whose foreign policies in turn seem to be in place to enrich his oligarch mates?

It's uncanny
Absolutely this. I think the deportations etc are a huge smokescreen for big business friendly deregulation which suits his many billionaire supporters perfectly. I'm sure there will be populist red meat thrown to the masses in some fashion, but the main aim will be to enrich the rich.
 
Musk has got Trump in his pocket. As long as Musk keeps enriching Trump, Trump will let Musk dictate government policy, which will be bad for everyone except billionaires in his inner circle. Musk has got everything in place to take over the richest most powerful country in the world with Trump as his useful idiot to enact the policies that he wants in exchange for money. Call it hyperbole if you want but that’s how it looks to me. Hope I’m wrong.
I think Musk is outraged that his son transitioned to a woman, he clearly doesn’t agree with it and I’m not sure he wants to control much other than it not happening to other fathers.

I’m pretty sure it’s not money he wants, else he wouldn’t have bought Twitter.
 
Who’s next do you think? Moldova?

Well Transnistria has been providing a pretext for decades but despite extensive Russian interference, Moldava has just made it pretty clear in their recent elections which trajectory it wants to pursue so the west abandons them at their peril. The CSIS has made it clear where it thinks US interests lie in this. What Putin tries to do next there and how Trump responds will tell us an awful lot, if Russia does anything more than maintain it's current strategy it will be very worrying (not that it isn't worrying anyway).
 
Absolutely this. I think the deportations etc are a huge smokescreen for big business friendly deregulation which suits his many billionaire supporters perfectly. I'm sure there will be populist red meat thrown to the masses in some fashion, but the main aim will be to enrich the rich.
“Mass deportations” if they happen are likely to create problems in the ag and housing industries in the U.S. among others. But they don’t even need to happen. The rhetoric is hurting those businesses anyhow. The pretend ICE vans are already driving around, apparently by those who felt “talked down to” so they think it’s funny to scare some framers and farmworkers.
 
With Zelensky gone, and the political chaos that would ensue, what kind of command and control would exist? What kind of armed services would Ukraine even have? What level of political control would exist in post Zelensky Kyiv? And what level of international support? As for guerrilla warfare, that might happen, it might make the occupation bloody but it won't end it.

Let's be frank, the Ukraine is slowly losing this war, and even if you disagree with me, no one believes she's winning. Even before Trump, support for this war was on the wane in the west, this is the reality of the situation.

Putin didn't wage this war to liberate the Russian majority provinces in Ukraine, he waged it to bring Ukraine back into the fold and If Trump imposes a settlement that is exactly what will happen.
This war was always predicated to end in a “land for peace deal” however unpalatable that may be. Western support has been essential because without it, Ukraine would have been totally lost. The Crimea and parts of the Eastern borderlands were almost entirely seeded with ethnic Russians back in the Soviet days - who will never properly integrate into the Ukraine nation state. Realpolitik will redraw the border to stop the conflict and hopefully the West will provide sufficient defensive infrastructure to deter Putin - who will not be satisfied with this compromise deal but I would expect him to bank it. He will not live forever and who knows what the future holds.
 
This war was always predicated to end in a “land for peace deal” however unpalatable that may be. Western support has been essential because without it, Ukraine would have been totally lost. The Crimea and parts of the Eastern borderlands were almost entirely seeded with ethnic Russians back in the Soviet days - who will never properly integrate into the Ukraine nation state. Realpolitik will redraw the border to stop the conflict and hopefully the West will provide sufficient defensive infrastructure to deter Putin - who will not be satisfied with this compromise deal but I would expect him to bank it. He will not live forever and who knows what the future holds.
It’s not just about defensive infrastructure but also meaningful security guarantees.
 
Read that from BBC

Ukraine are going to get told to forget about Crimea.

I do think Ukraine will get the rest of their land back, I already said in the other thread last week.

I said probably with some sort of Russian (but maybe UN) peacekeeping force.

Ultimately Russia will have concerns over what it classes as Russian citizens there, I can’t see them just walking out.

I think Trump pulls US out of NATO, personally. Read this as to why.

But it’s either going to be a US withdrawal or legal agreements (which Russia wanted before 2022) that Ukraine would never be part of NATO.

I think if the US do pull out of NATO, it essentially dies and a European army will be formed, which to be honest I think is better for everyone. Europe is protected from US instability as it is currently over reliant. Russia will probably feel more comfortable without the US on its borders and the US will make a shit ton of money selling arms to Europe. Edit: on top of the shit ton of money they’re making in supplying Europe with LNG (edit: and oil), because Europe aren’t getting it from Russia ever again. At least until it starts getting supplied from Gaza Marine anyway ;)

Another edit: I think the Europeans (Germans) are happy with this too, as they get access to the lithium in the Donbas they need for their electric cars. The Ukrainian government is bankrupt and western companies are going to be mining there, probably on a lease.
 
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I think Musk is outraged that his son transitioned to a woman, he clearly doesn’t agree with it and I’m not sure he wants to control much other than it not happening to other fathers.

I’m pretty sure it’s not money he wants, else he wouldn’t have bought Twitter.
Power not money now for Musk imo.
 
This whole discussion around the Democrats "talking down to ordinary people" confuses me. How much "talking down to" has actually gone on and how much is it people simply falling for populism 101? There's definitely been times where the Democrats have walked into traps and given Trump the soundbites he wants to support his tactics, but the whole point of a populist is they will tell you that the 'elites' are sneering at you and they will repeat this ad-nauseum until you believe it irrespective of its truth. Creating this fictional division in your mind is a defining tactic.

A conversation about whether the Democrats failed to focus on their base sufficiently and a broader discussion about the democrat position on inequalities are valid ones, but the whole hand wringing around talking down to people is probably leaving Trump's strategists pissing themselves laughing.
 
This whole discussion around the Democrats "talking down to ordinary people" confuses me. How much "talking down to" has actually gone on and how much is it people simply falling for populism 101? There's definitely been times where the Democrats have walked into traps and given Trump the soundbites he wants to support his tactics, but the whole point of a populist is they will tell you that the 'elites' are sneering at you and they will repeat this ad-nauseum until you believe it irrespective of its truth. Creating this fictional division in your mind is a defining tactic.

A conversation about whether the Democrats failed to focus on their base sufficiently and a broader discussion about the democrat position on inequalities are valid ones, but the whole hand wringing around talking down to people is probably leaving Trump's strategists pissing themselves laughing.
The “talking down to them” argument falls right into the trap populists lay. I posted this before — how should experts deal with the objections of non-experts? The only answer, apparently, is just to lie to them — every other option has been rejected as too “offensive” or “hurtful”, and you can’t ignore them because they have influence — as they should — in a democracy. Of course, as we discussed before, this was precisely what certain Greek philosophers and the founding fathers were concerned about in a democracy.
 
The “talking down to them” argument falls right into the trap populists lay. I posted this before — how should experts deal with the objections of non-experts? The only answer, apparently, is just to lie to them — every other option has been rejected as too “offensive” or “hurtful”, and you can’t ignore them because they have influence — as they should — in a democracy. Of course, as we discussed before, this was precisely what certain Greek philosophers and the founding fathers were concerned about in a democracy.
We’ve lost the generation that lived through the last fascist uprising. They aren’t here to ground us anymore.

As you say, if you don’t agree with them, you’re talking down to them. They no longer listen.

Therefore they and we will have to learn by lived experience. This is just the beginning.

Who knows where the world and its population will be spat out.
 
Read that from BBC

Ukraine are going to get told to forget about Crimea.

I do think Ukraine will get the rest of their land back, I already said in the other thread last week.

I said probably with some sort of Russian (but maybe UN) peacekeeping force.

Ultimately Russia will have concerns over what it classes as Russian citizens there, I can’t see them just walking out.

I think Trump pulls US out of NATO, personally. Read this as to why.

But it’s either going to be a US withdrawal or legal agreements (which Russia wanted before 2022) that Ukraine would never be part of NATO.

I think if the US do pull out of NATO, it essentially dies and a European army will be formed, which to be honest I think is better for everyone. Europe is protected from US instability as it is currently over reliant. Russia will probably feel more comfortable without the US on its borders and the US will make a shit ton of money selling arms to Europe. Edit: on top of the shit ton of money they’re making in supplying Europe with LNG, because Europe aren’t getting it from Russia ever again. At least until it starts getting supplied from Gaza Marine anyway ;)

Another edit: I think the Europeans (Germans) are happy with this too, as they get access to the lithium in the Donbas they need for their electric cars. The Ukrainian government is bankrupt and western companies are going to be mining there, probably on a lease.
Putin is not afraid of Trump and there’s no way he takes one backwards step from where they are today in Ukraine. Zelenskyy is the one with the weak hand, because it’s reaching out to Trump with an open palm…and that comes at great cost to a megalomaniacal tyrant.

Crimea, is, was, and probably never will be anything but Russian. Russia wants the Black Sea coast, at a minimum and a wasteland buffer on its southern and southwestern flank. Ukraine is that…and it is a huge landmass.

Trump will find he cannot get the US out of NATO, and I don’t think the US wants to out…certainly not the military leaders in the US. Repatriating nukes, massive air bases, and the costs associated (including cutting about 1/3 of the military personnel) isn’t going to play in DC.

Trump’s bluster is ALL about trying to get a better deal or else. Whether he gets one or not, he declares victory and moves on. He’s a professional blagger, who is bigger, better, stronger, braver, more “beautiful” than anything else EVER! I mean, for someone to come out in America and say they’re the best President for blacks in America…even better than Lincoln…is not just a sign of senility, but one of unfettered “blaggery”!

Domestically is where WE are going to reap the whirlwind that is Trump. The Christian Conservatives behind his throne have their road map on the reconstruction of the American way of life in their image. They’ve generally succeeded in the courts and they’re now going to run roughshod through the domestic legislative process to reshape the country. Challenges to their legislative agenda will be met by a SCOTUS that will do their bidding and the job will be done.

The Executive Branch is going to assert authority over the Legislative Branch AND the Judicial Branch, with the separation of powers being concentrated like never before.

This will lead to the quickest sea change in American politics and life we have ever seen and the landscape should look very different in 4 years of unfettered, unconstrained attack on America from the inside…which is why Trump has primed the pump with his “enemies within” labeling! Any resistance has already been identified and he will simply attach the label in yet another “I told you so!” moment.

Trump is going to try to leverage everyone for everything, but he (incorrectly) assumes America can be isolationist. It can’t…if it wants to remain the pre-eminent global power he thinks it is.

The problem with Europe is it has battered wives syndrome and thinks it needs America more than America needs it. It doesn’t. The relationship is symbiotic, and it would be more damaging to Trump, in his last chance at immortality, to lose Europe than it would be for the powers in Europe to lose Trump.

The global fear of Russia marching across Europe feels a smidge overblown, given the machinery and tools of war amassed at the frontlines, and the economic ties that bind.

Europe needs to pull up its big boy pants and meet Trumps bluster with coolness, calmness and strength, while ensuring any tantrums are made public in global media channels he doesn’t control. Trump doesn’t like being on the defensive, as we’ve seen from his scowls when put against the wall. Don’t let the bully dominate, or even have the bully pulpit to himself, and you neuter him.

EVERYONE has seen the playbook before. Simply call him on it and move forward unified…with or without him…knowing that calling his bluff is his Achilles heel!
 
Putin is not afraid of Trump and there’s no way he takes one backwards step from where they are today in Ukraine. Zelenskyy is the one with the weak hand, because it’s reaching out to Trump with an open palm…and that comes at great cost to a megalomaniacal tyrant.

Crimea, is, was, and probably never will be anything but Russian. Russia wants the Black Sea coast, at a minimum and a wasteland buffer on its southern and southwestern flank. Ukraine is that…and it is a huge landmass.

Trump will find he cannot get the US out of NATO, and I don’t think the US wants to out…certainly not the military leaders in the US. Repatriating nukes, massive air bases, and the costs associated (including cutting about 1/3 of the military personnel) isn’t going to play in DC.

Trump’s bluster is ALL about trying to get a better deal or else. Whether he gets one or not, he declares victory and moves on. He’s a professional blagger, who is bigger, better, stronger, braver, more “beautiful” than anything else EVER! I mean, for someone to come out in America and say they’re the best President for blacks in America…even better than Lincoln…is not just a sign of senility, but one of unfettered “blaggery”!

Domestically is where WE are going to reap the whirlwind that is Trump. The Christian Conservatives behind his throne have their road map on the reconstruction of the American way of life in their image. They’ve generally succeeded in the courts and they’re now going to run roughshod through the domestic legislative process to reshape the country. Challenges to their legislative agenda will be met by a SCOTUS that will do their bidding and the job will be done.

The Executive Branch is going to assert authority over the Legislative Branch AND the Judicial Branch, with the separation of powers being concentrated like never before.

This will lead to the quickest sea change in American politics and life we have ever seen and the landscape should look very different in 4 years of unfettered, unconstrained attack on America from the inside…which is why Trump has primed the pump with his “enemies within” labeling! Any resistance has already been identified and he will simply attach the label in yet another “I told you so!” moment.

Trump is going to try to leverage everyone for everything, but he (incorrectly) assumes America can be isolationist. It can’t…if it wants to remain the pre-eminent global power he thinks it is.

The problem with Europe is it has battered wives syndrome and thinks it needs America more than America needs it. It doesn’t. The relationship is symbiotic, and it would be more damaging to Trump, in his last chance at immortality, to lose Europe than it would be for the powers in Europe to lose Trump.

The global fear of Russia marching across Europe feels a smidge overblown, given the machinery and tools of war amassed at the frontlines, and the economic ties that bind.

Europe needs to pull up its big boy pants and meet Trumps bluster with coolness, calmness and strength, while ensuring any tantrums are made public in global media channels he doesn’t control. Trump doesn’t like being on the defensive, as we’ve seen from his scowls when put against the wall. Don’t let the bully dominate, or even have the bully pulpit to himself, and you neuter him.

EVERYONE has seen the playbook before. Simply call him on it and move forward unified…with or without him…knowing that calling his bluff is his Achilles heel!
Really good post.

John Roberts has been the most disappointing Chief Justice in my lifetime. I was relying on him to steer the court to the center as a rational pragmatist, but failing that, to protect the court’s independence. He’s instead proved himself a weak-knee’ed coward whose lack of follow-through on Court ethical issues has shocked me.
 
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