UAP/UFO thread - Non-Human Intelligences

[Magicpole]

W

So, you're assuming that life, with the chemicals and gases that make up the composite of our planet is on every planet that has an 'atmosphere'? Who's to say what kind of 'atmosphere' allows the same effect on metals they'll have against what we have? Who says that the life there doesn't grow 15 ft or 1 inch, fly and both have vastly superior workings of mathematics and science as we know it?

We haven't landed on another planet in any other solar system to test any man made theories. Agreed? We don't know the effect of their sun on their elements on their planet. Agreed? And we don't know the weight of gravity on their planet since we've never set foot another anywhere else. Agreed or not?

So, basically, we don't know at this stage of our existence how all the mix of those components come together anywhere else. Like we don't even know the workings of a proposed 'black hole' which, literally, bends the possible theory of all elements out of whack... cos we have no idea what it is, where it possibly goes or what possibly happens in and around it.

It could, very possibly, be similar to a light refraction, but in space.

Honestly, I don't see how you can extrapolate our thinking here to a 'known unknown'.

Whoa, you are assuming I assumed any of that? I didn’t. I’m don’t care what they are made of. I don’t care what the chemical composition of their atmosphere is, I wouldn’t care if they could read minds, run at 170miles an hour whilst knitting the fleece of the last Yeti in the universe. They can’t travel faster or even close to the speed of light. Never. Even the cute ones.

Have I made that clear enough to prevent you assuming? Great.

 

[Nightmare Walking]

Different planet. Same physics. That’s it. Might be vastly advanced, doesn’t matter, it can’t be done.

What if the laws of physics are different in a multiverse? Maybe a more intelligent form has been able to work out how to jump universes and overcome the issue of relativity.

 

[Magicpole]

What if the laws of physics are different in a multiverse? Maybe a more intelligent form has been able to work out how to jump universes and overcome the issue of relativity.

That’s an interesting, but different question. In order to achieve travelling faster than light, the laws of physics, again consistent across all of it, wouid need to be different from the one universe we know about. If such multiverses exist, is it not most probable it would be similar to ours in composition and natural laws that guide it?

Now if it could be done, then how would they or their spaceships, technology in general, work or survive, in an environment with different physical laws?

All to play for.

 

[Nightmare Walking]

That’s an interesting, but different question. In order to achieve travelling faster than light, the laws of physics, again consistent across all of it, wouid need to be different from the one universe we know about. If such multiverses exist, is it not most probable it would be similar to ours in composition and natural laws that guide it?

Now if it could be done, then how would they or their spaceships, technology in general, work or survive, in an environment with different physical laws?

All to play for.

I generally agree with most of what you said.

But, I am going to be honest here, you have come across as a bit of a knob and very condescending with your last few posts on this thread.
After following your music threads and participating in them, I was a little surprised with your tone, as you are generally not like that.

My reply was a little tongue in cheek but very relevant I suppose.

Maybe aliens who have visited here and not from our universe and therefore the laws of physics are not applicable to them. The speed of light to them may be as fast as a slug who had been drinking Kestrel Super all night.

It sounds outlandish. But going to the moon on a rocket would have sounded just as outlandish to the Romans.

My gut feeling is that no alien has ever visited us.
You state it is impossible due to the laws of physics. But I was able to suggest a way where the laws of physics may not be applicable. Yes it pie in the sky stuff but you can't disprove it and neither can Einsteins equations.

 

[Magicpole]

I generally agree with most of what you said.

But, I am going to be honest here, you have come across as a bit of a knob and very condescending with your last few posts on this thread.
After following your music threads and participating in them, I was a little surprised with your tone, as you are generally not like that.

My reply was a little tongue in cheek but very relevant I suppose.

Maybe aliens who have visited here and not from our universe and therefore the laws of physics are not applicable to them. The speed of light to them may be as fast as a slug who had been drinking Kestrel Super all night.

It sounds outlandish. But going to the moon on a rocket would have sounded just as outlandish to the Romans.

My gut feeling is that no alien has ever visited us.
You state it is impossible due to the laws of physics. But I was able to suggest a way where the laws of physics may not be applicable. Yes it pie in the sky stuff but you can't disprove it and neither can Einsteins equations.

You can’t disprove I have a dragon living in my garage. Not being able to disprove something is no proof. The burden of proof lies with you and others to produce proof or even the possibility of what you claim could be happening. Einstein’s relativity is only relative in this universe and the laws that govern it. So, why bring a real person with a real theory that works bother?

And I do get tetchy about stuff at times. Especially, it’s only a theory. That’s a trigger. If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? That’s another big one. Slagging my team or fans another. I will put it down to an incredulous response, not contained. And maybe a bit hungover, that could have influenced it.

 

[Nightmare Walking]

You can’t disprove I have a dragon living in my garage. Not being able to disprove something is no proof. The burden of proof lies with you and others to produce proof or even the possibility of what you claim could be happening. Einstein’s relativity is only relative in this universe and the laws that govern it. So, why bring a real person with a real theory that works bother?

And I do get tetchy about stuff at times. Especially, it’s only a theory. That’s a trigger. If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? That’s another big one. Slagging my team or fans another. I will put it down to an incredulous response, not contained. And maybe a bit hungover, that could have influenced it.

Here is another hypothesis for you then which does not require breaking the laws of physics or parralel universes.

We only know the conditions for life to exist, on this planet. They might not actually be applicable universally. What if sentient and intelligent lifeforms could be composed purely from photons. No mass or matter, just photons. Now they would have their own problems with the laws of physics as they would not be able to encounter matter. But with a lifetime of billions of years, they may exist long enough to overcome such issues. They would also live long enough and travel fast enough to overcome the vastness of space.

Atoms can combine to form different thing including life. Photons can also combine, who's to say if can not produce life?

Again, total pie in the sky stuff but not beyond the laws of physics.

 

[Magicpole]

Here is another hypothesis for you then which does not require breaking the laws of physics or parralel universes.

We only know the conditions for life to exist, on this planet. They might not actually be applicable universally. What if sentient and intelligent lifeforms could be composed purely from photons. No mass or matter, just photons. Now they would have their own problems with the laws of physics as they would not be able to encounter matter. But with a lifetime of billions of years, they may exist long enough to overcome such issues. They would also live long enough and travel fast enough to overcome the vastness of space.

Atoms can combine to form different thing including life. Photons can also combine, who's to say if can not produce life?

Again, total pie in the sky stuff but not beyond the laws of physics.

The issue would be cognitive awareness of not only themselves, but of others. Maybe head down to the photon bar and interact. It’s a matter of probabilities. I don’t rule it out because I’m not a particle physicist, but I woukd find it unlikely. A bit like every other alien who look like mythical monsters and haven’t digits to allow them to build nothing more complex than a mound, yet they got here.

Hollywood apart, I’m not convinced. I will bring it up if I ever meet a particle physicist.

Hopefully a right sort.

 

[Nightmare Walking]

The issue would be cognitive awareness of not only themselves, but of others. Maybe head down to the photon bar and interact. It’s a matter of probabilities. I don’t rule it out because I’m not a particle physicist, but I woukd find it unlikely. A bit like every other alien who look like mythical monsters and haven’t digits to allow them to build nothing more complex than a mound, yet they got here.

Hollywood apart, I’m not convinced. I will bring it up if I ever meet a particle physicist.

Hopefully a right sort.

It's very unlikely but not impossible. It's absolute pie in sky stuff. Can light be alive?? Sounds daft but it's not beyond the laws of physics. It sounds more like a new character from the Avengers.

 

[Bigga]

W

Whoa, you are assuming I assumed any of that? I didn’t. I’m don’t care what they are made of. I don’t care what the chemical composition of their atmosphere is, I wouldn’t care if they could read minds, run at 170miles an hour whilst knitting the fleece of the last Yeti in the universe. They can’t travel faster or even close to the speed of light. Never. Even the cute ones.

Have I made that clear enough to prevent you assuming? Great.

Nah, buddy. We're 'infants' in the time of our existence, so we're JUST beginning to learn.

You're counting to 100, for example, and saying it's impossible for further things to learn or know.

That's super limiting, but okay, buddy.

 

[Magicpole]

Nah, buddy. We're 'infants' in the time of our existence, so we're JUST beginning to learn.

You're counting to 100, for example, and saying it's impossible for further things to learn or know.

That's super limiting, but okay, buddy.

Ok.

 

[Coatigan]

He isn't, he's claiming we know the boundries. We and others will know how to use science within those boundries better. We won't and no other beings can change those boundries.

We don't though. And no worthwhile scientist will believe we do either.

Gravity was once a boundary. But before it was, that we had no idea it existed. The sea was once a boundary, so was the air. Things visible to the naked eye were a boundary.

I can understand people having a view on this or that regarding the universe, and what we may or may not see happen in our own lifetime. But I just don't get this stance that what we know, is all there is to know. When literally every passing even half-century changes that.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

Have you watched Skinwalker ranch? In the most recent series they discovered what looks like a portal (wormhole) that opens up on the ranch. They did scans which actually seem to show physical evidence of what may be a portal. Far fetched…judge for yourself.

The show is lead by Travis Taylor who is an engineer and best-selling author who holds PhDs in Optical Science and Engineering, Aerospace Systems Engineering, and master's degrees in Physics and Astronomy.

I’ve watched the Skinwalker ranch with Travis Taylor he worked for the Pentagon, undercover he joined the team without telling the others on the programme, once it was discovered I’ve not trusted anything the programme turns up. Only promoting themselves with all manner of people brought in with experimental equipment.

It’s very much in the business of entertainment like that other American programme Oak island looking for buried treasure season 7 and still didn’t find ‘the ark of the covenant despite all the digging and all the large notices on the hired equipment the show is more TV advertising.

I’d love it if they find a wormhole but after four seasons I think it’s entertaining that’s all.

 

[Blue Bogey]

I’ve watched the Skinwalker ranch with Travis Taylor he worked for the Pentagon, undercover he joined the team without telling the others on the programme, once it was discovered I’ve not trusted anything the programme turns up. Only promoting themselves with all manner of people brought in with experimental equipment.

It’s very much in the business of entertainment like that other American programme Oak island looking for buried treasure season 7 and still didn’t find ‘the ark of the covenant despite all the digging and all the large notices on the hired equipment the show is more TV advertising.

I’d love it if they find a wormhole but after four seasons I think it’s entertaining that’s all.

That’s fair enough.

They do use science and follow the data. I think the problem with both these shows is the production companies drag it out so they can create a new series year on year. I Have followed the whole Oak Island series I think it will be series 12 in January. Year on year I am getting less enthusiastic about it!

Skinwalker ranch has the same production crew it seems.

They have a spin-off of Skinwalker now which airs right after the Skinwalker show where they investigate other ranches where UFO/UAP phenomena has appeared. For anyone who hasn’t watched these they conduct scientific tests it’s not about what happened.

 

[Blue Bogey]

W

Whoa, you are assuming I assumed any of that? I didn’t. I’m don’t care what they are made of. I don’t care what the chemical composition of their atmosphere is, I wouldn’t care if they could read minds, run at 170miles an hour whilst knitting the fleece of the last Yeti in the universe. They can’t travel faster or even close to the speed of light. Never. Even the cute ones.

Have I made that clear enough to prevent you assuming? Great.

Sorry for jumping in on your enthusiastic debate on speed of travel in the universe, but what if you had a warp drive to help? The ship would be in this bubble and then the bubble can theoretically travel faster than the speed of light. It’s now being discussed that if we have been visited then this may be how ET is doing it. We also shouldn’t assume that ET is a biological entity like us they could be AI/robots as an advance civilisation probably wouldn’t travel themselves.

World's first real warp bubble created by accident as scientists mull future warp drive

Lab accidents are creating all manner of breakthroughs at the moment, in anti-biotics and now warp drives ... what's next?!

www.fanaticalfuturist.com

 

[Magicpole]

Sorry for jumping in on your enthusiastic debate on speed of travel in the universe, but what if you had a warp drive to help? The ship would be in this bubble and then the bubble can theoretically travel faster than the speed of light. It’s now being discussed that if we have been visited then this may be how ET is doing it. We also shouldn’t assume that ET is a biological entity like us they could be AI/robots as an advance civilisation probably wouldn’t travel themselves.

World's first real warp bubble created by accident as scientists mull future warp drive

Lab accidents are creating all manner of breakthroughs at the moment, in anti-biotics and now warp drives ... what's next?!

www.fanaticalfuturist.com

Who builds these AI machines? And mass is mass whether you’re in a bubble or not. Same rules apply I’m afraid.

 

[Blue Bogey]

Who builds these AI machines? And mass is mass whether you’re in a bubble or not. Same rules apply I’m afraid.

I can see you are fervently clear in your ideas. In a bubble yourself maybe ;) ?

You are obviously well read on these matters, almost certainly more than me so I am not even going to try and argue with you. However, If we can build AI here why can’t another civilisation on another planet somewhere deep in space at a far more technological advanced stage do this?

 

[Mancity1980]

The issue would be cognitive awareness of not only themselves, but of others. Maybe head down to the photon bar and interact. It’s a matter of probabilities. I don’t rule it out because I’m not a particle physicist, but I woukd find it unlikely. A bit like every other alien who look like mythical monsters and haven’t digits to allow them to build nothing more complex than a mound, yet they got here.

Hollywood apart, I’m not convinced. I will bring it up if I ever meet a particle physicist.

Hopefully a right sort.

Photons travelling at the speed of light do not experience time, so photons created shortly after the Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago would think it is just happening if they had cognitive awareness.

 

[TonyM]

I don't think the aliens would have come if we were still getting our City news from MCIVTA.

 

[DenisLawBackHeel74]

enjoying this discussion but couple of observations from my perspective…..

1. Faster than light travel isn’t possible in this universe by ‘breaking’ the speed of light
2. Einsteins same theory of general relativity also postulated the existence of wormholes although they might be fleeting in the sense that you can’t stabilise them (according to his theory but who knows)….and no one’s ever observed one
3. This idea of a warp bubble where space time/rules is suspended for the bubble is an interesting one, but I don’t know the maths behind how that would work other than that it’s a popular science fiction theory
4. No one (in the last few pages) has mentioned inter dimensional travel, which may sound even wilder but I think if string theory can be proven that would be interesting possibility….but what would be the effects of opening and closing inter dimensional ‘portals’…

 

[Dage]

Why should aliens come in person? We already sent machines into outer space. KI pilots, regenerative technologies.. there is no need to travel as a species.

There has been observable life on earth for hundreds of million years. Let's pretend there was a constellation whereas a civilization needed 1000 years to reach us with drones and you know for sure you will reach a living planet. Why would you not do this? Let's say the signals of your earth drones need a hundred years to reach your homeworld then you will have a sustained stream of information just 1100 years later.

1100 years are a lot for humans but may not for other civilisations or partly mechanised species. There are also several known theories that could shorten the distances between civilisations, e.g. life on brown dwarfs that fly nearby the solar systems.

"Foreign" drones could operate for thousands of years already on earth.