The Conservative Party

Vic said:
You mean an old, white, straight man like Pat Buchanan...

"There is a religious war going on in our country for the soul of America. It is a cultural war, as critical to the kind of nation we will one day be as was the Cold War itself." "The agenda [Bill] Clinton and [Hillary] Clinton would impose on America—abortion on demand, a litmus test for the Supreme Court, homosexual rights, discrimination against religious schools, women in combat units—that's change, all right. But it is not the kind of change America wants. It is not the kind of change America needs. And it is not the kind of change we can abide in a nation that we still call God's country."

The idea that the phrase "culture wars" is a left thing is crazy. It's the right fighting against things they don't like.
Click to expand...

When I said old, I didn't mean 86 year old Pat Buchanan, what he meant was a war against the counter culture, the sort of thing that propelled Nixon to the Presidency in 68, When Buchanan was critiquing the Clintons his view of decadent America was still the Grateful Dead and Ashbury Heights.

In 21st Century America Trump finds it politically expedient to pay lip service to the large but increasingly frail Americans who attend church in large numbers, but when he's wiping Russian prostitutes piss from his face, he's not thinking of the Lord, if the oaf is thinking of anything it's the money, that's all that shit stain cares about.

And while we're at it, I've a bone to pick with our American cousins, one size does not fit all, white privilege, BLM and intersectionality are all American exports we could well do without.

As for...

Vic said:
Is "culture wars" really a left wing confection, or a phrase invented by the right?
Click to expand...

bluethrunthru said:
Kulturkampf - see below

Culture war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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This is laughable, kulturkampf from the 1870s! This is desperate stuff, you should've quoted Oliver Cromwell for all the relevance that has to 21st Century politics.

For fuck sake! Do we have anything fresher than analogue by way of a counter argument?
 
The perfect fumble said:
When I said old, I didn't mean 86 year old Pat Buchanan, what he meant was a war against the counter culture, the sort of thing that propelled Nixon to the Presidency in 68, When Buchanan was critiquing the Clintons his view of decadent America was still the Grateful Dead and Ashbury Heights.

In 21st Century America Trump finds it politically expedient to pay lip service to the large but increasingly frail Americans who attend church in large numbers, but when he's wiping Russian prostitutes piss from his face, he's not thinking of the Lord, if the oaf is thinking of anything it's the money, that's all that shit stain cares about.

And while we're at it, I've a bone to pick with our American cousins, one size does not fit all, white privilege, BLM and intersectionality are all American exports we could well do without.

As for...





This is laughable, kulturkampf from the 1870s! This is desperate stuff, you should've quoted Oliver Cromwell for all the relevance that has to 21st Century politics.

For fuck sake! Do we have anything fresher than analogue by way of a counter argument?
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Quite fascinating.

You introduced the phrase "culture wars" into the thread, claimed it's a liberal confection, then go to war against suggestions that both the phrase and the aims behind it stem from the right - your own little battle, even against wikipedia!
 
Vic said:
Quite fascinating.

You introduced the phrase "culture wars" into the thread, claimed it's a liberal confection, then go to war against suggestions that both the phrase and the aims behind it stem from the right - your own little battle, even against wikipedia!
Click to expand...

You're missing the point, in 21st Century politics only the left uses the label culture wars, to shunt uncomfortable opinions into a file entitled non negotiable. We're not talking Buchanan and Bismarck here, conflicts between whether homosexuality is a legitimate sexuality or an aberration, or the conflict between secularism and religion. We're not talking culture wars as a means of fiery or even hostile debate between conflicting ideas, that's what Wiki is referring to, we're talking about culture wars as, and this is the point....no debate.

And while we're on the topic of what we're not talking about, we're also not talking about the divine right of kings, the infallability of the Pope or the Mullahs.

And we're not talking about the right wing's use of force, the legal system and the establishment media, to undermine any ideas that threaten their interests in the 21st Century, or any century for that matter.

We're talking about the left, we're talking about a poisonous combination of rigid dogma, group think, institutional capture, exploitation, coercion and relentless ad hominem, peddled and perpetrated by bad faith actors, the psychologically vulnerable, "let's be nice" well meaning liberals, grifters and grief merchants, all of them bent on closing down any debate whatsoever.

There is no debate with dogma, there's no debate with a cult and there's no debate with charlatans, only compliance and the consequences of non compliance. The left has always engaged in no platforming, but it was almost always reserved for fascists, but now categorising an issue as culture wars takes it to another level, particularly in the age of social media. Now, when the left declares an issue culture wars it is immediately de-legitimized, not worthy of consideration, an issue motivated only by hate, this approach is unique to the left, there's a word for it....Thoughtcrime.

Fortunately, for those willing or coerced to repent, the left has a remedy for Thoughtcrime....re-education.

I doubt Pat Buchanan or Bismark envisaged unconscious bias training, intersectionality courses, Diversity, Equity and Inclusion modules, Gender Identity & Expression training or how about White Privilege and Allyship: A 5-Day Advanced Programme, or even the Reparations for Slavery seminars and let's not forget the dreadfully maligned, but perfectly innocuous Drag Queen Story Hour, I could go on, one might call it an industry, or even a grift.
 
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The perfect fumble said:
You're missing the point, in 21st Century politics only the left uses the label culture wars, to shunt uncomfortable opinions into a file entitled non negotiable. We're not talking Buchanan and Bismarck here, conflicts between whether homosexuality is a legitimate sexuality or an aberration, or the conflict between secularism and religion. We're not talking culture wars as a means of fiery or even hostile debate between conflicting ideas, that's what Wiki is referring to, we're talking about culture wars as, and this is the point....no debate.

And while we're on the topic of what we're not talking about, we're also not talking about the divine right of kings, the infallability of the Pope or the Mullahs.

And we're not talking about the right wing's use of force, the legal system and the establishment media, to undermine any ideas that threaten their interests in the 21st Century, or any century for that matter.

We're talking about the left, we're talking about a poisonous combination of rigid dogma, group think, institutional capture, exploitation, coercion and relentless ad hominem, peddled and perpetrated by bad faith actors, the psychologically vulnerable, "let's be nice" well meaning liberals, grifters and grief merchants, all of them bent on closing down any debate whatsoever.

There is no debate with dogma, there's no debate with a cult and there's no debate with charlatans, only compliance and the consequences of non compliance. The left has always engaged in no platforming, but it was almost always reserved for fascists, but now categorising an issue as culture wars takes it to another level, particularly in the age of social media. Now, when the left declares an issue culture wars it is immediately de-legitimized, not worthy of consideration, an issue motivated only by hate, this approach is unique to the left, there's a word for it....Thoughtcrime.

Fortunately, for those willing or coerced to repent, the left has a remedy for Thoughtcrime....re-education.

I doubt Pat Buchanan or Bismark envisaged unconscious bias training, intersectionality courses, Diversity, Equity and Inclusion modules, Gender Identity & Expression training or how about White Privilege and Allyship: A 5-Day Advanced Programme, or even the Reparations for Slavery seminars and let's not forget the dreadfully maligned, but perfectly innocuous Drag Queen Story Hour, I could go on, one might call it an industry, or even a grift.
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Weird post. Buchanan and Bismark would have benefitted greatly from most of those courses you mention. Pair of utter cunts in need of education.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Yeah, as long as their houses weren't on fire...

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You really don't get it, do you?

Unless you want only white males to be firefighters, you have to do a bit of publicity to encourage applications from minorities. The comment about someone "getting themself in the wrong place" was a bit crass (I'd like to see the context) but who's bringing the "culture war" here? A fire chief who thinks maybe 1 in 30 LA firefighters being a women is a bit of a low figure, or the guy demanding she gets the sack?

Good grief. Who's waging a culture war here?

www.independent.co.uk

Newsmax host hysterically rages that California wildfires are ‘death by DEI’

The right-wing media ecosystem has become inundated with talking points that diversity hiring initiatives are to blame for the devastating fire engulfing the Los Angeles region
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
Vic said:
You really don't get it, do you?

Unless you want only white males to be firefighters, you have to do a bit of publicity to encourage applications from minorities. The comment about someone "getting themself in the wrong place" was a bit crass (I'd like to see the context) but who's bringing the "culture war" here? A fire chief who thinks maybe 1 in 30 LA firefighters being a women is a bit of a low figure, or the guy demanding she gets the sack?

Good grief. Who's waging a culture war here?

www.independent.co.uk

Newsmax host hysterically rages that California wildfires are ‘death by DEI’

The right-wing media ecosystem has become inundated with talking points that diversity hiring initiatives are to blame for the devastating fire engulfing the Los Angeles region
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
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That would be you...



You know why the guy wants her sacked? Because in the clip he posted and the little video above, nowhere will you find the word competence.
 
Vic said:
www.dailymail.co.uk

DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Tories must be braver in these culture wars

DAILY MAIL COMMENT: The bulk of Sir Keir Starmer's much-heralded oration on civil society yesterday was a predictable mix of pomposity and platitudes.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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You didn't read the artiicle....

"Sir Keir said this clash of ideologies was of the Tories' own making and they were intent on 'demonising' wokery. If only! Many believe they have been far too timid.

Britain's institutions, seats of learning and charities are increasingly gripped by vocal minorities who trash our culture, decry our history, and seek to 'cancel' anyone who dares to challenge them. They started this war, not the (Tory) Government."

You're being deliberately obtuse, but that's to be expected. I repeat, only the left uses culture wars as a means to close down debate.

You should watch this, but I doubt you will....

 
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The perfect fumble said:
That would be you...



You know why the guy wants her sacked? Because in the clip he posted and the little video above, nowhere will you find the word competence.
Click to expand...

Watch it again - "we think of equity as when identity no longer determines outcome...." i.e. not like when competence comes second to looking like the recruiter.

Just because you don't like equity, don't accuse others of starting a war about it.
 
The perfect fumble said:
You didn't read the artiicle....

"Sir Keir said this clash of ideologies was of the Tories' own making and they were intent on 'demonising' wokery. If only! Many believe they have been far too timid.

Britain's institutions, seats of learning and charities are increasingly gripped by vocal minorities who trash our culture, decry our history, and seek to 'cancel' anyone who dares to challenge them. They started this war, not the (Tory) Government."

You're being deliberately obtuse, but that's to be expected. I repeat, only the left uses culture wars as a means to close down debate.

You should watch this, but I doubt you will....

Click to expand...

I've seen enough to say I'm not going to defend absurdity. I try and avoid taking sides on that issue, and usually get away with it.

Is that a culture war - or just a big disagreement? Are you saying that "cancel culture" is the whole of "culture wars", or a symptom, or what?
 
Vic said:
Watch it again - "we think of equity as when identity no longer determines outcome...." i.e. not like when competence comes second to looking like the recruiter.

Just because you don't like equity, don't accuse others of starting a war about it.
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You don't understand...

Equity is the condition that would be achieved if one's identity no longer predicted, in a statistical sense, how one fares.....in life

Oh, by the way, you deliberately misquoted me....

You quoted me as saying....

You're missing the point, in 21st Century politics only the left uses the label culture wars
Click to expand...

Whereas the full quote was...

You're missing the point, in 21st Century politics only the left uses the label culture wars, to shunt uncomfortable opinions into a file entitled non negotiable.
Click to expand...

You're not playing with a straight bat pal, off with you now.
 
The perfect fumble said:
You don't understand...

Equity is the condition that would be achieved if one's identity no longer predicted, in a statistical sense, how one fares.....in life

Oh, by the way, you deliberately misquoted me....

You quoted me as saying....



Whereas the full quote was...



You're not playing with a straight bat pal, off with you now.
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Don't get silly. It wasn't a misquote. The subordinate clause in "only the left uses the label culture wars, to shunt uncomfortable opinions into a file entitled non negotiable", is your explanation of why you assert that "only the left uses the label culture wars" but it's not a misquote - unless you didn't mean to include the comma.

Grammar wars, anyone?
 
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