North Stand Construction Discussion

[JOGAMIGMOG]

Anyone know the final capacity of the North Stand once complete? How will this compare to Everton’s ‘Blue Wall’ capacity at Bramley Moor?

 

[jrb]

Fair enough.
For myself and I guess others who have not had a life in construction it's a steep learning curve.
If it's not cost then it's a matter of opinion, some may prefer one rather than another.
Mrs Asa, and myself are avid watchers of the build on YouTube, Friends think we have lost it.

Everyone has an opinion. People may like the fins/sail? TBH, the vast majority of City fans and hotel guests probably won't give them a second thought.

I really like Corten cladding. There are so many shapes, patterns, and designs you can make out of it. Another great attribute of Corten is the way it weathers and it's look changes over time. It does have an industrial feel and look about it, which probably wouldn't have suited the North stand Hotel. I appreciate other people won't like the look of Corten. I accept there would be a huge cost difference as well.

Tribeca House, Northern Quarter.







Moxy Hotel, Spinnigfields.



These exterior stripscreen fins can reduce heating and cooling costs while inviting in daylight. Angled to reflect light during the summer and draw in warming sunlight during the winter months, they reduce the need to rely on electricity to power HVAC. Available in corten steel (shown), aluminum and zincalume. Punch and perforation patterns, shapes and sizes can be selected or created custom.

Stripscreen Fins

These exterior stripscreen fins can reduce heating and cooling costs while inviting in daylight. Angled to reflect light during the summer and draw in warming sunlight during ...

www.iands.design

 

[Penders1957]

Where do you begin?
The cladding choices are infinite. So are the costs.
Suffice to say, there are better sail/fin options than the one on the mockup.(in my opinion)
It is what it is. It isn't changing now.
We'll get a better idea of how the cladding and sails/fins look when they start to go on.

I sort of understand the general ire about the construction of the sails , but can’t understand ( can’t at this stage ) understand the problem with the general fenestration of the building ?? Ffs from the mock up who can even tell what the finished Facade will look like ??

 

[jrb]

I sort of understand the general ire about the construction of the sails , but can’t understand ( can’t at this stage ) understand the problem with the general fenestration of the building ?? Ffs from the mock up who can even tell what the finished Facade will look like ??

That's true. The cladding might turn out alright in the end? But the mock-up sail/fin doesn't look great, with hundreds to go on to the hotel. At least brick is being used at ground level. I like brick. It's much better than panel cladding.

 

[Marvin.]

Anyone know the final capacity of the North Stand once complete? How will this compare to Everton’s ‘Blue Wall’ capacity at Bramley Moor?

I don't know the final capacity because I don't know the capacity of the NL1. If it is 6,000 then City are adding 7,900 seats so that would give a capacity of c.13,900. Everton's blue wall is claimed to be > 14k so it sounds like their stand will be slightly larger.

 

[jrb]

THE SOLUTION – CUSTOM-SHAPED SAILS TO DEPICT A WAVE OF WATER

PTFE membrane was used to create 94 thin-width vertically curved fabric panels set at right angles to the building. Alternate panels curved towards or away from the building. For the outward curving panels, their point of maximum extension varied in height above the ground, creating a waveform along the entire length of the structure.

NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY — FlexFacades by Structurflex

PTFE membrane was used to create 94 thin-width vertically curved fabric panels set at right angles to the building.

flexfacades.com

 

[eyalluvitt]

I don't know the final capacity because I don't know the capacity of the NL1. If it is 6,000 then City are adding 7,900 seats so that would give a capacity of c.13,900. Everton's blue wall is claimed to be > 14k so it sounds like their stand will be slightly larger.

Designer Italian Recaro seats?, the Scousers will strip it bare, after a couple of home games about 300 seats will be left

 

[Coatigan]

I have no preconceptions or expertise, and really value your explanations of the complexities of this exciting build. From the many images I’ve seen on here I haven’t got a clue what the hotel etc will look like! My question (genuine, not loaded) is how confident are you that it’ll look shit? Definitely shit, probably shit or the jury’s out?

Fair enough and maybe I was harsh with the other poster too (apologies), the 'should have been marble' comment and the what are people moaning about flippant dismissal pushed me into that spot.

I can see that it will look poor. The hotel and the office block. Not as a design, but as the finished build. The components used and how they are put together, rather than the 'look' which is totally down to opinion.

Bear in mind that while many others criticised it from very early on, I kept saying reserve judgement till we see the actual build and mock-up. I even got my hopes up when they took the sails away, that they would replace them with something better.

It is what it is, but could have been so much better. So much better. For not that much more, incidentally.

 

[shnaghaicityfish]

Fair enough and maybe I was harsh with the other poster too (apologies), the 'should have been marble' comment and the what are people moaning about flippant dismissal pushed me into that spot.

I can see that it will look poor. The hotel and the office block. Not as a design, but as the finished build. The components used and how they are put together, rather than the 'look' which is totally down to opinion.

Bear in mind that while many others criticised it from very early on, I kept saying reserve judgement till we see the actual build and mock-up. I even got my hopes up when they took the sails away, that they would replace them with something better.

It is what it is, but could have been so much better. So much better. For not that much more, incidentally.

Ok thanks. Bit disappointing if that’s how it turns out, but I’ll still have my glass half full as we’ll have a new fanzone and a bigger ground. Cheers!

 

[Coatigan]

I sort of understand the general ire about the construction of the sails , but can’t understand ( can’t at this stage ) understand the problem with the general fenestration of the building ?? Ffs from the mock up who can even tell what the finished Facade will look like ??

I can. Jrb can too, obviously. Quite a few others will be able to. There will be some offhand dismissal probably, but a fair few will have a real base for comparison.

Look, I'm not on the wind-up, and I'm not moaning for the fuck of it. I think the positive things I have said about the development as a whole throughout, and so many other parts of it, should be enough to show that. It is this one thing I am talking about here, and only since the panel has been up. It might not matter to others, but dismissing it with daft clichés is pointless.

Component for component, fixing for fixing, that is as budget a facade as it gets. The glazing is probably the only bit with any upper end of what other similarly designed buildings have used in the last half a decade.

It is what it is, but I think people are too quick to jump on the back of anyone pointing it out. Btw, more than happy for anyone to meaningfully argue otherwise.

 

[Coatigan]

Ok thanks. Bit disappointing if that’s how it turns out, but I’ll still have my glass half full as we’ll have a new fanzone and a bigger ground. Cheers!

Yeah as a whole, it will be an amazing development. I have never for one second argued otherwise.

 

[Coatigan]

Everyone has an opinion. People may like the fins/sail? TBH, the vast majority of City fans and hotel guests probably won't give them a second thought.

I really like Corten cladding. There are so many shapes, patterns, and designs you can make out of it. Another great attribute of Corten is the way it weathers and it's look changes over time. It does have an industrial feel and look about it, which probably wouldn't have suited the North stand Hotel. I appreciate other people won't like the look of Corten. I accept there would be a huge cost difference as well.

Tribeca House, Northern Quarter.

View attachment 145828

View attachment 145829

View attachment 145830

Moxy Hotel, Spinnigfields.

View attachment 145827

These exterior stripscreen fins can reduce heating and cooling costs while inviting in daylight. Angled to reflect light during the summer and draw in warming sunlight during the winter months, they reduce the need to rely on electricity to power HVAC. Available in corten steel (shown), aluminum and zincalume. Punch and perforation patterns, shapes and sizes can be selected or created custom.

View attachment 145831

Stripscreen Fins

These exterior stripscreen fins can reduce heating and cooling costs while inviting in daylight. Angled to reflect light during the summer and draw in warming sunlight during ...

www.iands.design

They have turned out well, them. At least one of those, took 3 mock-up bay attempts to get approved. One was rejected outright, everything apart from the glazing went in the bin. Rightly so. The second, might have been approved had the contractor opened with it, but they pissed the planners off by chancing it with the first, that they dug in and looked for further improvements. Which I half expected from planners here, given the sails actually are different from what has been approved in the PA.

If people really want to have a hand at spot the difference though, the top one is a very good examaple. Compare those horizontal panels to the grey ones at the stand. And the framing - thin, capless, sleek. The sails, although much smaller in depth, are not painted fibre panels face fixed to a different colour frame, they are actual formed metal. The difference is Ladas and Ferraris.

 

[WARBABY]

We have to remember that this is a hotel and not a prestige head office of a multi national company

 

[Coatigan]

We have to remember that this is a hotel and not a prestige head office of a multi national company

Do we, aye?

 

[pride in battle]

Calm yourself.

I stand by what I said, on that part of it. No need to broadbrush it.

Chill...

 

[pride in battle]

In your opinion what would have been the appropriate budget ?

2 Billion ?

 

[pride in battle]

Fair enough and maybe I was harsh with the other poster too (apologies), the 'should have been marble' comment and the what are people moaning about flippant dismissal pushed me into that spot.

I can see that it will look poor. The hotel and the office block. Not as a design, but as the finished build. The components used and how they are put together, rather than the 'look' which is totally down to opinion.

Bear in mind that while many others criticised it from very early on, I kept saying reserve judgement till we see the actual build and mock-up. I even got my hopes up when they took the sails away, that they would replace them with something better.

It is what it is, but could have been so much better. So much better. For not that much more, incidentally.

In your opinion...

 

[Coatigan]

In your opinion...

On how that will ultimately make it look, sure.

But not that it is the cheapest version of this type of facade though.

But I'll leave that there now.

 

[supercity88]

I started something off here didn't it! Oops.

@Coatigan completely agree with you in terms of the quality of materials. My point was more about the quality of the build and I mean that in terms of how it's constructed as opposed to what spec/materials are being used. There will still be issues to the more observant/knowledgeable eye but overall it looks pretty good currently - we'll see how it ends up.

More broadly speaking I agree with you on the quality of the materials. As you know, I've always felt the club would look to get away with as little as possible and ultimately the Council would approve something lower quality than some would like. That's not to question the club's investment which is clearly significant. They could have spent a little more to deliver a better scheme, it wouldn't have been significant in the grand scheme of things. But working in construction, it all adds up so I can also appreciate why they haven't.

 

[Coatigan]

In your opinion what would have been the appropriate budget ?

This is my last on this, and only because I feel guilty about being a bit of a prick re this post yesterday. I thought it was being facetious (particularly after the marble comment) so I was dismissive. I see from your subsequent posts, the question was probably genuine.



The system used at St.Michaels for example, as probably the closest comparison, is £330-350 more expensive than the one at the NS, per square metre. Lets say £400 just to be extra generous. The hotel has 4200m2 of this type of facade, rounding up. That's 1.7m. The office block, 3100m2, that's another 1.2m.

It would only have take 3-4m more, let's even say 5, to get much better and sharper looking facades on both buildings. To some people that might not matter in the slightest. To others, it does.

I did say before, the saving grace here is its scale and setting, in that for the most part it will be seen from far. But those that do get close to it will experience it differently. The St.Michaels one probably had to go for something a bit special like that, to get approval for that size in that location, where as the bar at the stand would probably have been lower given where it is.

(This is a one blue to another comment, I don't think it needs to make it's way onto SSC, if that's ok).