North Stand Construction Discussion

supercity88 said:
I started something off here didn't it! Oops.

@Coatigan completely agree with you in terms of the quality of materials. My point was more about the quality of the build and I mean that in terms of how it's constructed as opposed to what spec/materials are being used. There will still be issues to the more observant/knowledgeable eye but overall it looks pretty good currently - we'll see how it ends up.

More broadly speaking I agree with you on the quality of the materials. As you know, I've always felt the club would look to get away with as little as possible and ultimately the Council would approve something lower quality than some would like. That's not to question the club's investment which is clearly significant. They could have spent a little more to deliver a better scheme, it wouldn't have been significant in the grand scheme of things. But working in construction, it all adds up so I can also appreciate why they haven't.
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Totally agree with all parts of this. We'll have had somewhat different experiences here and there, but the dance is always the same.

You are right, the build itself is for the most part looking really good. Through the regular drone viseos and photos we also get to see a lot of the 'sins' that on most sites would go completely unnoticed, but even with that, you are right, the standards are high.
 
jrb said:
Everyone has an opinion. People may like the fins/sail? TBH, the vast majority of City fans and hotel guests probably won't give them a second thought.

I really like Corten cladding. There are so many shapes, patterns, and designs you can make out of it. Another great attribute of Corten is the way it weathers and it's look changes over time. It does have an industrial feel and look about it, which probably wouldn't have suited the North stand Hotel. I appreciate other people won't like the look of Corten. I accept there would be a huge cost difference as well.

Tribeca House, Northern Quarter.

View attachment 145828

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Moxy Hotel, Spinnigfields.

View attachment 145827

These exterior stripscreen fins can reduce heating and cooling costs while inviting in daylight. Angled to reflect light during the summer and draw in warming sunlight during the winter months, they reduce the need to rely on electricity to power HVAC. Available in corten steel (shown), aluminum and zincalume. Punch and perforation patterns, shapes and sizes can be selected or created custom.

View attachment 145831

www.iands.design

Stripscreen Fins

These exterior stripscreen fins can reduce heating and cooling costs while inviting in daylight. Angled to reflect light during the summer and draw in warming sunlight during ...
www.iands.design www.iands.design
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Is this the stuff that has recently been removed from Broadcasting Tower in Leeds? My lad spent his 1st year at Leeds Uni there, and that had a rust like appearance.
 
Coatigan said:
Totally agree with all parts of this. We'll have had somewhat different experiences here and there, but the dance is the same.

You are right, the build itself is for the most part looking really good. Through the regular drone viseos and photos we also get to see a lot of the 'sins' that on most sites would go completely unnoticed, but even with that, you are right, the standards are high.
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I would add, for those who are quick to jump in with criticism of your position, it's not really that much different to the arguments over ticket pricing. The club can sell 10,000 tickets at £40 and make £400,000 or sell 6,000 tickets at £70 and make £420,000. I don't have any facts or data but in my experience when you see the obvious tourist fans at the ground they're always stacked in merchandise from the club shop too so the additional spend probably increases the revenue gap.

But that's at the "expense" pardon the pun, of local fans largely. And it's the local fans with their kids who are always the future of our club. When things aren't so rosy they'll be there. Short term money over long term legacy. Similarly, it's a little more money to create a development with a larger wow factor and probably more longevity in terms of the quality of appearance. It doesn't stack up in a spreadsheet as well, but would have been nice for the club to consider.

That takes nothing away from what is going to be one epic stand. I don't particularly like the bolt on elements or design but we were largely constrained by space in that regard. But it's a major step towards the "destination" that's been talked about for a decade or so.
 
supercity88 said:
I would add, for those who are quick to jump in with criticism of your position, it's not really that much different to the arguments over ticket pricing. The club can sell 10,000 tickets at £40 and make £400,000 or sell 6,000 tickets at £70 and make £420,000. I don't have any facts or data but in my experience when you see the obvious tourist fans at the ground they're always stacked in merchandise from the club shop too so the additional spend probably increases the revenue gap.

But that's at the "expense" pardon the pun, of local fans largely. And it's the local fans with their kids who are always the future of our club. When things aren't so rosy they'll be there. Short term money over long term legacy. Similarly, it's a little more money to create a development with a larger wow factor and probably more longevity in terms of the quality of appearance. It doesn't stack up in a spreadsheet as well, but would have been nice for the club to consider.

That takes nothing away from what is going to be one epic stand. I don't particularly like the bolt on elements or design but we were largely constrained by space in that regard. But it's a major step towards the "destination" that's been talked about for a decade or so.
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Sure. That level of extra though, in a project of this scale can be found in lots of places. For example, that little second cantilever to the side of the office that none of us even noticed, that they are now having to scaffold all the way up just to form the edge of. The rebar and scaffolding alone would probably have covered it, and would it really have lost anything for it? But you are right, and I get it. I do think it is ok to both want to see otherwise, and be disappointed at this not being seen as an important thing. As an opinion. And I only went into it that far because people either asked or rubbished it. Would have happily left it at just the initial comment.
 
When was the last time City had a 61/62k crowd at home? Would it be before the North Stand was built? I started going in the 1970s. Then the Platt Lane and North Stand was all-seater. The capacity was 52k then.

We might be first City fans in this generation to see City play in front of 60k plus at home.

City need to be careful to retain a home end because against Brugge there was a very young and enthusiastic crowd but the SOuth Stand must have been full of new supporters so there was no singing. The atmosphere and impression of a crowd is what is very attractive about football.
 
I'm sure I was in quite a few 60k+ crowds in the sixties for big games like a local derby. I was at Bert Trautmann's testimonial and the crowd must have been well over 60k.
 
Marvin. said:
When was the last time City had a 61/62k crowd at home? Would it be before the North Stand was built? I started going in the 1970s. Then the Platt Lane and North Stand was all-seater. The capacity was 52k then.

We might be first City fans in this generation to see City play in front of 60k plus at home.

City need to be careful to retain a home end because against Brugge there was a very young and enthusiastic crowd but the SOuth Stand must have been full of new supporters so there was no singing. The atmosphere and impression of a crowd is what is very attractive about football.
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More detail than you asked for above, Marvin. I just happen to be waiting for a piece of work to come through and thought that any anoraks like me might appreciate the full stats.

We drew 55,023 for a 2-0 win against Derby in April 1972 as we came up just short in the title race. That's still bigger than any City home gate since, but obviously will be beaten when the rebuilt North Stand is in operation.

Earlier that season, in November 1971, we pulled in 63,326 for the classic 3-3 game against the rags. That's the last time we had a home gate bigger than the capacity will be once the current expansion work on the North Stand is completed.

In 1971/2, the new North Stand had been completed but was a terrace in its first season. Capacity therefore remained over 63,000. However, by the start of the 1972/3 season, the seats were in place and the capacity dropped accordingly, though for over a decade from that point we had more seats than any other club ground in the country. The biggest gate in the first season of the completed North Stand was 54,478 against Sunderland in an FA Cup fifth round tie in February 1973 which we drew 2-2. However, Maine Road's capacity was reduced for safety reasons after incidents at the 1973 Sunderland game.

That attendance against Sunderland has been topped since the South Stand at the Etihad was extended. The record at this ground is the 54,693 who saw the 3-1 defeat against Leicester in February 2016 and it's also our biggest gate in the 50-plus years between April 1972 and the present day. Owing to a small capacity reduction since, the crowd for that 1973 fixture, however, can't now (and for some time hasn't been able to) be beaten again until the expanded North Stand is open.

Meanwhile, from the summer of 1973, the maximum figure Maine Road could accommodate was usually quoted as 52,600 and the Cup tie against the Mackems was therefore the last time a Maine Road gate officially exceeded 53,000. The biggest crowd at the old venue between the reduction in capacity in the summer of 1973 and the stadium closing 30 years later was the 52,532 that watched City turn Everton over 3-1 in the FA Cup quarter final in March 1981 (quite a night for us FOCs who remember it).

The last attendance of over 50,000 at Maine Road was the 52,089 who in March 1984 watched Liverpool beat Everton 1-0 in the League Cup final replay. The last in a game involving City came in October 1981 for the 0-0 draw against the rags, when 52,037 officially attended.

Thanks to the BM history section for the stats.
 
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petrusha said:
More detail than you asked for above, Marvin. I just happen to be waiting for a piece of work to come through and thought that any anoraks like me might appreciate the full stats.

We drew 55,023 for a 2-0 win against Derby in April 1972 as we came up just short in the title race. That's still bigger than any City home gate since, but obviously will be beaten when the rebuilt North Stand is in operation.

Earlier that season, in November 1971, we pulled in 63,326 for the classic 3-3 game against the rags. That's the last time we had a home gate bigger than the capacity will be once the current expansion work on the North Stand is completed.

In 1971/2, the new North Stand had been completed but was a terrace in its first season. Capacity therefore remained over 63,000. However, by the start of the 1972/3 season, the seats were in place and the capacity dropped accordingly, though for over a decade from that point we had more seats than any other club ground in the country. The biggest gate in the first season of the completed North Stand was 54,478 against Sunderland in an FA Cup fifth round tie in February 1973 which we drew 2-2. However, Maine Road's capacity was reduced for safety reasons after incidents at the 1973 Sunderland game.

That attendance against Sunderland has been topped since the South Stand at the Etihad was extended. The record at this ground is the 54,693 who saw the 3-1 defeat against Leicester in February 2016 and it's also our biggest gate in the 50-plus years between April 1972 and the present day. Owing to a small capacity reduction since, the crowd for that 1973 fixture, however, can't now (and for some time hasn't been able to) be beaten again until the expanded North Stand is open.

Meanwhile, from the summer of 1973, the maximum figure Maine Road could accommodate was usually quoted as 52,600 and the Cup tie against the Mackems was therefore the last time a Maine Road gate officially exceeded 53,000. The biggest crowd at the old venue between the reduction in capacity in the summer of 1973 and the stadium closing 30 years later was the 52,532 that watched City turn Everton over 3-1 in the FA Cup quarter final in March 1981 (quite a night for us FOCs who remember it).

The last attendance of over 50,000 at Maine Road was the 52,089 who in March 1984 watched Liverpool beat Everton 1-0 in League Cup final replay. The last in a game involving City came in October 1981 for the 0-0 draw against the rags, when 52,037 officially attended.

Thanks to the BM history section for the stats.
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Off tbe top of my head a lot of seats in the Platt Lane corners were closed as well so would have reduced capacity in the 80s.
 
Marvin. said:
When was the last time City had a 61/62k crowd at home? Would it be before the North Stand was built? I started going in the 1970s. Then the Platt Lane and North Stand was all-seater. The capacity was 52k then.

We might be first City fans in this generation to see City play in front of 60k plus at home.

City need to be careful to retain a home end because against Brugge there was a very young and enthusiastic crowd but the SOuth Stand must have been full of new supporters so there was no singing. The atmosphere and impression of a crowd is what is very attractive about football.
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6 out of 7 seasons from 66/67 to 71/72 it was 62,000+ for the highest crowd of the season. Highest of all was in 71/72 with 63,326.

Before that you have go back to late 50s and 1960 when there was a consectutive run of 60,000+ for the highest of the season including 70,483 in 57/58.
 
Norman kneejerk said:
Off tbe top of my head a lot of seats in the Platt Lane corners were closed as well so would have reduced capacity in the 80s.
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My memory, which might well be wrong, is that the first capacity reduction after I started going in 1975 came immediately after Hillsborough in 1989. They ordered the maximum number to be accommodated on any terrace in the country to be cut by 15% in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy and before the Taylor Report, meaning we lost about 4,000 from the capacity of the Kippax.

I thought the Platt Lane then suffered the safety issues you're referring to in the following season, with seats being closed, as you say. But wasn't it still being used for away fans at that time? That was why we had to build a new Platt Lane stand when the Taylor Report also ordered us to make the Kippax all-seater.

Happy to be corrected. I don't have my City literature over here with me. It's at my mum's house, I'm afraid.
 
Coatigan said:
This is my last on this, and only because I feel guilty about being a bit of a prick re this post yesterday. I thought it was being facetious (particularly after the marble comment) so I was dismissive. I see from your subsequent posts, the question was probably genuine.

View attachment 145875

The system used at St.Michaels for example, as probably the closest comparison, is £330-350 more expensive than the one at the NS, per square metre. Lets say £400 just to be extra generous. The hotel has 4200m2 of this type of facade, rounding up. That's 1.7m. The office block, 3100m2, that's another 1.2m.

It would only have take 3-4m more, let's even say 5, to get much better and sharper looking facades on both buildings. To some people that might not matter in the slightest. To others, it does.

I did say before, the saving grace here is its scale and setting, in that for the most part it will be seen from far. But those that do get close to it will experience it differently. The St.Michaels one probably had to go for something a bit special like that, to get approval for that size in that location, where as the bar at the stand would probably have been lower given where it is.

(This is a one blue to another comment, I don't think it needs to make it's way onto SSC, if that's ok).
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Thanks,
I have been interested in all the expert comments.
As I said yesterday we watch the videos routinely.
I just hope the soundproofing is up to standard, that is my main Hotel metric.
 
petrusha said:
My memory, which might well be wrong, is that the first capacity reduction after I started going in 1975 came immediately after Hillsborough in 1989. They ordered the maximum number to be accommodated on any terrace in the country to be cut by 15% in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy and before the Taylor Report, meaning we lost about 4,000 from the capacity of the Kippax.

I thought the Platt Lane then suffered the safety issues you're referring to in the following season, with seats being closed, as you say. But wasn't it still being used for away fans at that time? That was why we had to build a new Platt Lane stand when the Taylor Report also ordered us to make the Kippax all-seater.

Happy to be corrected. I don't have my City literature over here with me. It's at my mum's house, I'm afraid.
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Yes I think what you say is probably spot on. The away supporters were given Platt Lane. I can remember Liverpool and Everton having big numbers in it. Must admit I'm a bit hazy now on away fans location sequence. There was Platt Lane, the pen in the Kippax then finally I think a strip in the North Stand.
I also remember before the Gene Kelly that the corner between the North Stand and Kippax was reterraced with good sized steps but we finished up with the Gene Kelly and something similar in the other 'windy" corner. May have been after the new Kippax.
 
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