Russian invasion of Ukraine

Tb1981 said:
I actually think he is right here about a few points
Trump will get peace, but his haters will moan about him selling Ukraine out whatever is agreed.
There is no way in the world Russia retreat and Ukraine goes back to its 2014 borders. Some people would rather Ukraine carried on fighting till Russia wins
Also it makes sense for America and Russia to meet
If you throw in Ukraine, uk, France and Germany etc it’s a one sided negotiation and Russia won’t do it
It has to be seen as a success for both superpowers
Both will declare victory but really Ukraine will be worse off than at the start of the war.
Russia also loses because everyone knows they are all talk now and no where as powerful as they like to project.
Click to expand...

I can only suggest you try that with a Ukrainian
 
Tb1981 said:
I actually think he is right here about a few points
Trump will get peace, but his haters will moan about him selling Ukraine out whatever is agreed.
There is no way in the world Russia retreat and Ukraine goes back to its 2014 borders. Some people would rather Ukraine carried on fighting till Russia wins
Also it makes sense for America and Russia to meet
If you throw in Ukraine, uk, France and Germany etc it’s a one sided negotiation and Russia won’t do it
It has to be seen as a success for both superpowers
Both will declare victory but really Ukraine will be worse off than at the start of the war.
Russia also loses because everyone knows they are all talk now and no where as powerful as they like to project.
Click to expand...

You dont think Ukraine should be part of the negotiations to stop the war they are in? sheesh. USA shouldn't be at the negotaition table at all past maybe being a mediator.
 
Why do so many continue to parrot the alternative view for Putin's invasion? They can't stay consistent with each other, one minute it's Ukrainian Nazis, then it's the threat of NATO (let's just ignore Finland). When Putin announced his invasion, he looked straight down the camera and told us all that Ukraine as a state had no right to exist. That's your fucking reason there, so save yourself swallowing up kremlin propaganda that won't stay consistent with each other.

It's always the same two groups of clowns also, anti-imperialist tankies who have no issue with the most brutal imperialistic nation on earth, or right wing 'sovereignty' lovers, who can't wait to sell out a nation fighting for it's freedom and sovereignty.
 
Tb1981 said:
I actually think he is right here about a few points
Trump will get peace, but his haters will moan about him selling Ukraine out whatever is agreed.
There is no way in the world Russia retreat and Ukraine goes back to its 2014 borders. Some people would rather Ukraine carried on fighting till Russia wins
Also it makes sense for America and Russia to meet
If you throw in Ukraine, uk, France and Germany etc it’s a one sided negotiation and Russia won’t do it
It has to be seen as a success for both superpowers
Both will declare victory but really Ukraine will be worse off than at the start of the war.
Russia also loses because everyone knows they are all talk now and no where as powerful as they like to project.
Click to expand...
For starters, Ukraine and NATO (other than the USA) will never agree to this for good reason. Russia isn't going to stop at partial annexation of Ukraine. They'll sign some sort of peace deal and then in 5 or 10 years time they'll invade once more under another pretext. And once Ukraine falls, some other nation is next.

This is the stuff of WWII all over again. Europe needs to stop Russia now and expel them from Ukraine, restoring Crimea to Ukraine as well.
 
Tb1981 said:
I actually think he is right here about a few points
Trump will get peace, but his haters will moan about him selling Ukraine out whatever is agreed.
There is no way in the world Russia retreat and Ukraine goes back to its 2014 borders. Some people would rather Ukraine carried on fighting till Russia wins
Also it makes sense for America and Russia to meet
If you throw in Ukraine, uk, France and Germany etc it’s a one sided negotiation and Russia won’t do it
It has to be seen as a success for both superpowers
Both will declare victory but really Ukraine will be worse off than at the start of the war.
Russia also loses because everyone knows they are all talk now and no where as powerful as they like to project.
Click to expand...
How are Russia a superpower? Is it because they have nuclear weapons? Are France, the UK, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel also superpowers as they also have nuclear weapons? The first three are also certainly economically more powerful than Putins Russia and I would say can weild significantly more global soft power than the dictator Putin, but are not really superpowers.

If you want to use that term, then I think it's appropriate to say only the Yanks and the Chineese are superpowers.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
How are Russia a superpower? Is it because they have nuclear weapons? Are France, the UK, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel also superpowers as they also have nuclear weapons? The first three are also certainly economically more powerful than Putins Russia and I would say can weild significantly more global soft power than the dictator Putin, but are not really superpowers.

If you want to use that term, then I think it's appropriate to say only the Yanks and the Chineese are superpowers.
Click to expand...
And Blazing Squad
 
cleavers said:
If you really believe that you're a fool, how would that possibly benefit the US ?
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Trump loves dictators like Putin. The arms sales will generate revenue. Trump could come up with some pretext for it (e.g., Ukraine refusing to accept the USA-Russia peace plan). And of course, the entire war is Ukraine's fault.

We're not yet at the stage where the USA will supply Russia with weapons - but we're edging ever closer towards that insane possibility. This possibility is so insane though that Congress might actually find the courage to finally stand up to Trump and stop it... maybe.

So although this outcome is - I think unlikely - maybe 1:10 - the fact that it's even 1:10 and that we're discussing it goes to show how fundamental the change in US foreign policy is going to be under Trump.
 
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Churchlawtonblue said:
How are Russia a superpower? Is it because they have nuclear weapons? Are France, the UK, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel also superpowers as they also have nuclear weapons? The first three are also certainly economically more powerful than Putins Russia and I would say can weild significantly more global soft power than the dictator Putin, but are not really superpowers.

If you want to use that term, then I think it's appropriate to say only the Yanks and the Chineese are superpowers.
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I made these points in an earlier post, russia currently, under putin, is a basket case nation, it's work force is largely fucked, as is it's economy, it's population is fucked for decades, large parts of it's oil industry is fucked thanks to Ukraine building it's own weapons because it had to, to take the conflict back into russia. putin is desperate for it to stop, but as much as he can on his terms, his only "ace" is his nukes (if they work), and he can hold europe to ransom for that reason.
 
cleavers said:
so he'd be the absolute fool in that case, which was the question I was answering.
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We are talking about the guy who thinks that tariffs are means for bettering the US economy; the same guy that advised health officials to look into bleach and ultra-violet light as means to curb COVID; and so on.

Not only is Trump foolish - he's unpredictable.
 
Elbow beards said:
Perhaps America should have surrounded when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour....
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Next someone explains the Jews shouldn't have started the Holocaust?..

The crazy thing after living a life in transatlantic friendship is the fact that the USA have copied the ruzzian system.

The 'lie' has become the new foundation of the system. Propaganda by fake news and media control have been installed, democratic and legal institutions have been taken under control and the only way back is a civil war. Sounds like a weird B-movie. It's real.

Seems EU leaders yesterday have chosen Starmer to ask trump next week (if that stands) the crucial question where the US stands.
Obviously there is nothing to expect, it's all said and clear.

We have to assess our own position very well to define our new line. Maybe we have to buy some time to get in a better position. Needs very smart and (in this case) united decision making in Europe plus non-European democratic allies.

Hard to believe all that.
Didn't we always say we need more education?
 
cleavers said:
He'd probably end up in a war with Europe in that case, so please stop scaremongering, do you honestly think the US armed forces would support it ?
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Trump has been busy firing generals and replacing them with loyalists. It's an ongoing process and isn't yet complete... but in a year or so... what do you suppose?

Yeah - 1:10 - pretty unlikely. But crazier shit has happened under Trump.
 
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