Russian invasion of Ukraine

Gorton_Tubster said:
Again, from the outside is looking (maybe) like they will get the war concluded. Zelensky seems positive, trump is milking it for all its worth. If the EU and US can get some troops on the ground in Ukraine that would be good to guarantee Ukrainian future. Let's see.

Hopefully the killing will stop soon.

I know it upsets some of you that the war might come to an end or that trump (wanker) might even be contributing to that or that trump is letting them keep a large part of Ukraine, but it sounds good to me. Hopefully Russia can pay for the shit they have caused I doubt it though.
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This is the big one for me. In all this talk of peace I’ve not seen the word ‘reparations’ used once. It’s astonishing.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Again, from the outside is looking (maybe) like they will get the war concluded. Zelensky seems positive, trump is milking it for all its worth. If the EU and US can get some troops on the ground in Ukraine that would be good to guarantee Ukrainian future. Let's see.

Hopefully the killing will stop soon.

I know it upsets some of you that the war might come to an end or that trump (wanker) might even be contributing to that or that trump is letting them keep a large part of Ukraine, but it sounds good to me. Hopefully Russia can pay for the shit they have caused I doubt it though.
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Some may be upset the war comes to an end, what a pile of shite
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Again, from the outside is looking (maybe) like they will get the war concluded. Zelensky seems positive, trump is milking it for all its worth. If the EU and US can get some troops on the ground in Ukraine that would be good to guarantee Ukrainian future. Let's see.

Hopefully the killing will stop soon.

I know it upsets some of you that the war might come to an end or that trump (wanker) might even be contributing to that or that trump is letting them keep a large part of Ukraine, but it sounds good to me. Hopefully Russia can pay for the shit they have caused I doubt it though.
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Your naivety (I'm being kind here) is touching.
 
I had a though earlier that would potentially make everyone happy but I'm sure it's not actually possible as none of the many people who are smarter than me have said it.

What if the stolen land becomes a new semi independent country with Russia and Ukraine having some form of joint responsibility.

Ukraine wouldn't border Russia at any point so would make it much harder for another invasion.
Ukraine could join nato as Russia would have a buffer between themselves and nato.
Ukraine would be happier that they aren't giving the land to Russia and Russia would be happy that the Russians living in these areas aren't under Ukraine control.
 
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Johnny Mars Bar said:
This is the big one for me. In all this talk of peace I’ve not seen the word ‘reparations’ used once. It’s astonishing.
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Spot on but something that is an inconvenience and may get in the way of Trump getting his Nobel prize.

What astounds me is that everyone seems to think that this "peacekeeping" force is wonderful. Yet, why do you need one if all is settled and Russia won't come back?
 
The bottom line is that there’s been absolutely no concessions from Putin. He’s doubled down on his maximalist demands of taking over the whole of Donetsk and Luhansk including the areas they’ve failed to win on the battlefield. I very much doubt this is going to change because it’s in Putin’s personal interest for the war to continue as long as possible, because without the war he’ll be toppled due to the dire state of the country.

The only way to end this is for the west, including the USA, to ramp up sanctions and military aid to enable Ukraine to finish the job. Otherwise it’s stalemate.

The reality is there’s absolutely no prospect of a peace deal or even a ceasefire because Putin doesn’t want one, and it’s been a huge gift to him to have a complete moron in the Whitehouse who he can easily manipulate.
 
117 M34 said:
I had a though earlier that would potentially make everyone happy but I'm sure it's not actually possible as none of the many people who are smarter than me have said it.

What if the stolen land becomes a new semi independent country with Russia and Ukraine having some form of joint responsibility.

Ukraine wouldn't border Russia at any point so would make it much harder for another invasion.
Ukraine could join nato as Russia would have a buffer between themselves and nato.
Ukraine would be happier that they are giving the land to Russia and Russia would be happy that the Russians living in these areas aren't under Ukraine control.
Click to expand...
There were already two supposedly semi independent areas in Donetsk and Luhansk after 2014 which gave the Russians a figleaf of deniability that were fighting the war there. In reality there was nothing independent about them at all. No way that Russia would tolerate any independent areas that are not totally subservient to the Kremlin.
 
117 M34 said:
I had a though earlier that would potentially make everyone happy but I'm sure it's not actually possible as none of the many people who are smarter than me have said it.

What if the stolen land becomes a new semi independent country with Russia and Ukraine having some form of joint responsibility.

Ukraine wouldn't border Russia at any point so would make it much harder for another invasion.
Ukraine could join nato as Russia would have a buffer between themselves and nato.
Ukraine would be happier that they are giving the land to Russia and Russia would be happy that the Russians living in these areas aren't under Ukraine control.
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Good for you for thinking outside of the box but just don't see it. Even if both Russia and Ukraine agreed:-
a) who on earth would want that country?
b) Russia would invade it almost immediately
 
LGWIO said:
Spot on but something that is an inconvenience and may get in the way of Trump getting his Nobel prize.

What astounds me is that everyone seems to think that this "peacekeeping" force is wonderful. Yet, why do you need one if all is settled and Russia won't come back?
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Good cast, maybe you will get a few nibbles
 
west didsblue said:
The bottom line is that there’s been absolutely no concessions from Putin. He’s doubled down on his maximalist demands of taking over the whole of Donetsk and Luhansk including the areas they’ve failed to win on the battlefield. I very much doubt this is going to change because it’s in Putin’s personal interest for the war to continue as long as possible, because without the war he’ll be toppled due to the dire state of the country.

The only way to end this is for the west, including the USA, to ramp up sanctions and military aid to enable Ukraine to finish the job. Otherwise it’s stalemate.

The reality is there’s absolutely no prospect of a peace deal or even a ceasefire because Putin doesn’t want one, and it’s been a huge gift to him to have a complete moron in the Whitehouse who he can easily manipulate.
Click to expand...
Spot on
All three paras hits the nail on the head for me
 
west didsblue said:
The bottom line is that there’s been absolutely no concessions from Putin. He’s doubled down on his maximalist demands of taking over the whole of Donetsk and Luhansk including the areas they’ve failed to win on the battlefield. I very much doubt this is going to change because it’s in Putin’s personal interest for the war to continue as long as possible, because without the war he’ll be toppled due to the dire state of the country.

The only way to end this is for the west, including the USA, to ramp up sanctions and military aid to enable Ukraine to finish the job. Otherwise it’s stalemate.

The reality is there’s absolutely no prospect of a peace deal or even a ceasefire because Putin doesn’t want one, and it’s been a huge gift to him to have a complete moron in the Whitehouse who he can easily manipulate.
Click to expand...

The negative about having a complete moron in the Whitehouse is that he can be easily manipulated and the positive is that he can be easily manipulated - Putin pulls Trump one way, Europe pitches up and pulls him back.

This isn’t diplomacy, it’s just two sides turning up and flattering the shit out of Trump to get an edge. There is no appeal to geopolitical reality or long term interests. It’s an appeal to ego. Europe’s job is to block Putin from getting everything he wants out of Trump, keep the weapons flowing and keeping the pressure on for a ceasefire and/or a negotiated settlement on terms Ukraine can accept. Europe also needs the time to ramp up its own military capacity for itself and Ukraine allowing us to decouple from the US.

The trouble both Putin and Europe has with Trump is that he is incapable of formulating and implementing a long term strategy - what he wants one day becomes the opposite the next, meaning neither side can rely on him which is even more reason for Europe to decouple from the US.
 
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