Media bias against City

[blueinsa]

Not unless they paid the defender to dive in like a loon.

But in general I know what you're saying!

Like defenders dive in like loons and clip our lads, he could have just waved the appeal away.

Like you say, you get my drift.

To quote Scudamore 'There’s lots of fans around the world who wish Manchester United were winning it again,’ he added. ‘But you have to balance that off against putting on a competition.’

I find it a strange thing to say as it almost sounds like he could control the destiny of the title if he so wished rather than saying they re just not good enough and the other sides are getting stronger and stronger.

 

[franksinatra]

How many are given fr/against is not a great measure of ref quality, unless you believe that they know or take it into account. IF a team has 40 shots punched off the goalline, there's no argument about there being 40 penalties.

A far better scale is how many are given wrongly, both for and against. That is far more instructive of ref quality (you could even try to grade them as dead certs and iffy if you were brave).

I completely agree it is not a good guide to ref quality, which was not my intention to provide, as this thread is more aimed at looking at patterns of behaviour and my posting the ref stats was in response to another posters interest in pen stats.

Even grading penalties is a very subjective topic and significantly open to interpretation. Only this morning the office could not agree on the Spurs pen and that is amongst a group of infividuals with no preconceived ideas or opinions.

 

[franksinatra]

I was wondering who would put us right.

No need to thank me. Happy to bring a bit of perspective to the proceedings.

 

[franksinatra]

You must think I've loads of time on my hands. I will take the time to demonstrate the very few times that we get 'game changing' penalties that 'should' (but probably won't) stop you posting your often quoted stat relating to the amount of penalties we have been awarded. If you want to produce stats that show that our rivals have similarly limited penalties awarded that materially affect a result in the manner that happened this weekend for both the rags and spurs then be my guest. I would be genuinely interested to see the comparators and that would really get to the nub of the issue. My only objective is to ensure that you can't quote the same penalty stat in relation to mcfc as some sort of counter argument the next time we get a similar run of disgraceful penalty decisions not given as it will be proven that the majority of those penalties offered us no significant benefit.

Stats aside, you're total disregard of the last 5 non awarded penalties is staggering. The fact you continue to pedal the same penalty stat on every occasion where we get these disgraceful non decisions is a real head scratcher.

Well you did promise to put these pen stats in 'context' and I was even hoping you may throw a bit of this 'compelling evidence' into the mix also.

So far you have failed in your objective. Stop scratching your head and put some meat on the bones of your argument.

If you do not have this information, which highlights we only receive penalties when irrelevant incomparison to our rivals, let the stats stand that we receive the most (alongside Chelse) and concede the fewest.

Incidentally if you do highlight our pens are given when the penalty is irrelevant are you suggesting the referees are doing this on purpose???

Even far you this is a bit far-fetched.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

I do, yes.

We are seen as fair game for opposing teams and players by refs. Our players are constantly fouled and hacked down with refs grudgingly giving a free kick at times whilst waving it on if they can. Contrast that to the sheer amount of times we are penalised and booked for the slightest contact. How many times do we dominate possession yet end up with more bookings and more fouls against?

Look at the way our players are treated under contact in the box in contrast to others? Fuck me even the tv commentators are at it with the narrative of it not being enough to go down when its Kun or Sterling yet any other player and he was being clever there and if you feel contact you have to go down, its a penalty line when its any one else.

Where there is gambling and huge amounts of money at stake, there will always be cheating and corruption and to suggest the PL is immune is frankly ridiculous and heads in the sand stuff.

Sorry mate, but to borrow from Father Dougal "You've gone a bit mad there, Ted".

How does this conspiracy manifest itself? Is it part of official FA policy? Are referees briefed by email not to give us penalties, or is it like the Final Solution (nothing in writing)? Or is it like Cambridge in the 1950's, with FA agents targeting the closet homosexuals?

I can accept that individual referees may suffer from conscious and/or unconscious bias, that some may be susceptible to the kind of pressure that Taggart and the media used to deliberately exude, and further that there may be some that actively hate us and do indeed cheat (the name Peter Walton will live long in the memory, and I could quite easily see Robert Madley heading down the same path). I can also accept that there is scope for corruption in an organisation that knowingly allows card carrying Manchester United fans (Anthony Taylor, Lee Mason) to pass themselves off as Altrincham and Bolton supporters and officiate at not just the Etihad but at Old Trafford. However, beyond that I think you're straying into the realms of fantasy. Most referees simply do the best job they can and I do not believe there is an orchestrated campaign to deny us anything

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Plenty of refs have disappeared over night and before their time was up over the last few years.

I wonder why??

Poll is on record as saying you gave Utd the decisions because you knew if you didn't, they would influence the league and the refs and you didn't get their games again.

If thats not cheating then i dont know what is.

Scudamore is also on record as saying a declining Utd are bad for business. They have had the rub of the green for years and they will get it again. Last minute penalty to save further embarrassment yet again against Sheffield Utd anyone?

Probably (on this occasion) because it was a stonewall penalty!

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

I completely agree it is not a good guide to ref quality, which was not my intention to provide, as this thread is more aimed at looking at patterns of behaviour and my posting the ref stats was in response to another posters interest in pen stats.

Even grading penalties is a very subjective topic and significantly open to interpretation. Only this morning the office could not agree on the Spurs pen and that is amongst a group of infividuals with no preconceived ideas or opinions.

It wasn't. It was a ludicrous decision. Not a surprise coming from Madley though

 

[franksinatra]

It wasn't. It was a ludicrous decision. Not a surprise coming from Madley though

I actually agree with you but a bournemouth fan in the office stated it was intentional. Just highlighting it is always a case of interpretation and even with the benefit of replays agreement isnt always reached.

 

[john@staustell]

I thought he knocked it away sneakily with his hand. But I must admit I didn't have time or effort to study it enough to see whther he was as disorientated as Shearer and co said. And therefore if it wasn't deliberate, fair enough. But how would the ref know how much 'he didn't know where he was'?

Suffice to say it was far less of a penalty than Navas at Everton.

 

[silverback]

I actually agree with you but a bournemouth fan in the office stated it was intentional. Just highlighting it is always a case of interpretation and even with the benefit of replays agreement isnt always reached.

Frank,
I am trying to visualise you in the stadium. Trying to convince your fellow fans that the stonewall penalty that has just been denied was statistically acceptable. ;-)

 

[blueinsa]

Sorry mate, but to borrow from Father Dougal "You've gone a bit mad there, Ted".

How does this conspiracy manifest itself? Is it part of official FA policy? Are referees briefed by email not to give us penalties, or is it like the Final Solution (nothing in writing)? Or is it like Cambridge in the 1950's, with FA agents targeting the closet homosexuals?

I can accept that individual referees may suffer from conscious and/or unconscious bias, that some may be susceptible to the kind of pressure that Taggart and the media used to deliberately exude, and further that there may be some that actively hate us and do indeed cheat (the name Peter Walton will live long in the memory, and I could quite easily see Robert Madley heading down the same path). I can also accept that there is scope for corruption in an organisation that knowingly allows card carrying Manchester United fans (Anthony Taylor, Lee Mason) to pass themselves off as Altrincham and Bolton supporters and officiate at not just the Etihad but at Old Trafford. However, beyond that I think you're straying into the realms of fantasy. Most referees simply do the best job they can and I do not believe there is an orchestrated campaign to deny us anything

So you agree that the things i have said exist probably do yet im straying into the realms of fantasy?

As for the stonewall penalty, no doubt, stonewall but its ever so easy for them to wave away our appeals for stonewall penalties whilst merrily blowing the whistle at every opportunity for theirs and thats the point i make.

Players like Kun and Sterling could get fucking shot by a sniper in the box right now and it would be waved away with some fucking idiot like Webb or media clown pundit saying not enough contact.

The PL is a huge business, £Billions of pounds and its only that because of a huge global fanbase that is predominately made up of rags, scouse, Arse and chav fans. Real competition and years of those sides winning nothing would hurt the brand, Scudamore said as much and to think a business man would do what was needed to protect the brand and the income streams is not so much of a stretch of the imagination.

PB has also said many a times that several high profile refs have suddenly had to retire because of info we as a club had on them and they were refs that we had suffered under.

Said it before, the richest league in the world should have the best refs and linesmen/women and for me, they should be brought in from around the world. No more Mr Altrincham or Bolton fan managing the rags to dodgy wins or denying us clear goals and penalties and that applies to every team in this league.

lets have a fair contest, refereed by the very best instead of the hand picked next big thing Mr Riley wants to push through despite them being clearly not up to the job.

 

[franksinatra]

I thought he knocked it away sneakily with his hand. But I must admit I didn't have time or effort to study it enough to see whther he was as disorientated as Shearer and co said. And therefore if it wasn't deliberate, fair enough. But how would the ref know how much 'he didn't know where he was'?

Suffice to say it was far less of a penalty than Navas at Everton.

Again you are probably right with regards the Navas penalty but every club could point to similar instances where penalties were not given..

It does not make it right or fair but it does not make it bias either.

 

[Aytoun]

Back to the mundane - todays mail says dont forget its Premier league again. See the comments from Louis, Arsene & Jurgen ahead of the midweek fixtures. 1st. 5th. & 8th. positions. NO mention of the other 5 involved.

 

[franksinatra]

Frank,
I am trying to visualise you in the stadium. Trying to convince your fellow fans that the stonewall penalty that has just been denied was statistically acceptable. ;-)

I think it would be wasted on my brethren in South Stand Level 3 and during the game I am like a cross between bluemooner and blueinsa for impartiality :-)

 

[blueinsa]

I think it would be wasted on my brethren in South Stand Level 3 and during the game I am like a cross between bluemooner and blueinsa for impartiality :-)

:-)

 

[The blue phantom]

So you agree that the things i have said exist probably do yet im straying into the realms of fantasy?

As for the stonewall penalty, no doubt, stonewall but its ever so easy for them to wave away our appeals for stonewall penalties whilst merrily blowing the whistle at every opportunity for theirs and thats the point i make.

Players like Kun and Sterling could get fucking shot by a sniper in the box right now and it would be waved away with some fucking idiot like Webb or media clown pundit saying not enough contact.

The PL is a huge business, £Billions of pounds and its only that because of a huge global fanbase that is predominately made up of rags, scouse, Arse and chav fans. Real competition and years of those sides winning nothing would hurt the brand, Scudamore said as much and to think a business man would do what was needed to protect the brand and the income streams is not so much of a stretch of the imagination.

PB has also said many a times that several high profile refs have suddenly had to retire because of info we as a club had on them and they were refs that we had suffered under.

Said it before, the richest league in the world should have the best refs and linesmen/women and for me, they should be brought in from around the world. No more Mr Altrincham or Bolton fan managing the rags to dodgy wins or denying us clear goals and penalties and that applies to every team in this league.

lets have a fair contest, refereed by the very best instead of the hand picked next big thing Mr Riley wants to push through despite them being clearly not up to the job.

How come its us that the rulers of the PL are trying to stop, when chelsea came along and upset the applecart stopping the rags domination i never read anything abt corruption then, is it just manchester city they dislike?

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

So you agree that the things i have said exist probably do yet im straying into the realms of fantasy?

As for the stonewall penalty, no doubt, stonewall but its ever so easy for them to wave away our appeals for stonewall penalties whilst merrily blowing the whistle at every opportunity for theirs and thats the point i make.

Players like Kun and Sterling could get fucking shot by a sniper in the box right now and it would be waved away with some fucking idiot like Webb or media clown pundit saying not enough contact.

The PL is a huge business, £Billions of pounds and its only that because of a huge global fanbase that is predominately made up of rags, scouse, Arse and chav fans. Real competition and years of those sides winning nothing would hurt the brand, Scudamore said as much and to think a business man would do what was needed to protect the brand and the income streams is not so much of a stretch of the imagination.

PB has also said many a times that several high profile refs have suddenly had to retire because of info we as a club had on them and they were refs that we had suffered under.

Said it before, the richest league in the world should have the best refs and linesmen/women and for me, they should be brought in from around the world. No more Mr Altrincham or Bolton fan managing the rags to dodgy wins or denying us clear goals and penalties and that applies to every team in this league.

lets have a fair contest, refereed by the very best instead of the hand picked next big thing Mr Riley wants to push through despite them being clearly not up to the job.

I would love to see this 'dossier' but this site is remarkable if any of its views are true http://footballisfixed.blogspot.co.uk/

 

[franksinatra]

I would love to see this 'dossier' but this site is remarkable if any of its views are true http://footballisfixed.blogspot.co.uk/

Wouldn't we all. Over to you PB. If there was evidence of ref bias and the club kept it to itself, but used it to force refs to retire rather than expose malpractise it would be a shameful episode in our history.

 

[trublue55]

Again you are probably right with regards the Navas penalty but every club could point to similar instances where penalties were not given..

It does not make it right or fair but it does not make it bias either.

I take you back to my comments of last night, with respect, not unduly bothered about right, fair or biased as they are subjective opinions, much more interested in COMPETENCE, and if you ignore the previous 3 areas, that is what you are left with, and competence or otherwise is not a matter of opinion, it is rapidly becoming a matter of fact!

 

[franksinatra]

I take you back to my comments of last night, with respect, not unduly bothered about right, fair or biased as they are subjective opinions, much more interested in COMPETENCE, and if you ignore the previous 3 areas, that is what you are left with, and competence or otherwise is not a matter of opinion, it is rapidly becoming a matter of fact!

Well you need to post this in another thead. This is the media/agenda thread and is a discussion about possible/perceived bias against the club.

Everybody, I am sure, is in agreement we want competentreferees who never make a mistake. Sadlythis will never happen. Some fans think those decisions are skewed against City and rather than it be incompetence it is more a deliberate policy to penalise us. That is what we are exploring.