EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
Status
Not open for further replies.
smudgedj said:
Yes! we should stay in the EU to serve American interests! gets my vote.
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We should serve our own interests which given the last century has often been by being close to America and indeed Europe and when either has broken down badly has often resulted in horrific outcomes.
 
What's happened to the advocate for Japan with its strong currency and innovation being a model for countries spurning immigration? Guess the facts have now been understood. also the Norway legal system being a reason to get out of the EU conversation disappeared to?
 
EalingBlue2 said:
What's happened to the advocate for Japan with its strong currency and innovation being a model for countries spurning immigration? Guess the facts have now been understood. also the Norway legal system being a reason to get out of the EU conversation disappeared to?
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I brought up Japan as a country it might be easier to trade with out of the EU (mainly because their car manufacturing could absorb a lot of what is currently spent on German motors). You completely made up the part where people suggested it as a viable economic model as best I can see.

Norway have to abide by some EU laws due to their agreement with the EU. In fact several of their human rights laws are more protective which I'd almost certainly suggest wouldn't happen in the UK (given the general feeling here towards Breivik winning his case). I don't know anyone from the Out side who has pushed the Norway model as something a non-EU UK should consider either.

You're battling straw men.
 
So, the nation that said it was a good idea to go into Vietnam,afghanistan, and Iraq now thinks its a good idea for us to be in the EU. I'm sure the gun toting champions of democracy have our best interests at heart.
 
Funny thing is the hypocrisy of it. The Americans would never give up their sovereignty and join a union but are telling us to do that very thing.
 
wilmslowblue said:
YES we do need to vote to leave to preserve our souls and are democracy! Look Japan will innovate itself out of any economic mess their some of the brightest people on the planet! They are no mugs!! Are you really telling me one of the most successful countries on the planet with one of the strongest currencies on planet earth is going to collapse because they won't accept mass immigration!
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Japan will be fucked without immigration.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion...ntary/japans-population-problem/#.VxnQkPkrK01
 
CityStu said:
I brought up Japan as a country it might be easier to trade with out of the EU (mainly because their car manufacturing could absorb a lot of what is currently spent on German motors). You completely made up the part where people suggested it as a viable economic model as best I can see.

Norway have to abide by some EU laws due to their agreement with the EU. In fact several of their human rights laws are more protective which I'd almost certainly suggest wouldn't happen in the UK (given the general feeling here towards Breivik winning his case). I don't know anyone from the Out side who has pushed the Norway model as something a non-EU UK should consider either.

You're battling straw men.
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It wasn't you I can't find the post but Japan's ability to ease out of a 230% deficit with innovation and the night of their currency. It's a very real argument about the effects of no immigration though it was not an argument really of much relevance to being in or out
 
RandomJ said:
Funny thing is the hypocrisy of it. The Americans would never give up their sovereignty and join a union but are telling us to do that very thing.
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They are a union it is the very essence of what America is and fundamental to the whole political system and their very being.
 
CityStu said:
EU migration is uncontrolled - if an EU national wants to come into the UK, they can. Those Brits in Spain are spending a relative fortune earned in the UK in Spain instead. They are a huge plus to their economy and they'd be welcomed back with open arms if Spain, for some reason, decided they wanted to send them back.

Holland are in a very similar position to the UK in that an In/Out EU referendum would be very interesting indeed. Belgium is HQ and would presumably get a fair few kickbacks from that.

I think some EU migrants contribute to the economy. I see no rational argument against having an immigration policy that encourages migration of any foreign nationals who can speak English and are skilled in a manner that would contribute to the UK workforce (i.e. if we have enough fisherman then we don't bring in foreign fisherman, but if we need more accountants then we encourage accountancy degrees and bring foreign accountants in on short term VISAs). I see absolutely no argument for allowing all and sundry in when we're already rammed. Have you seen any new build housing estates? You're living in your neighbours back garden.
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there are currently 4 major building works in my town alone, on top of the 2000 new houses we've had built in the last 3 years. No school in the town though, or cop shop or job centre.
And as for being 'rammed', build em on golf courses, we have more than enough of them..
 
I put Obama's fourcentsworth in the same camp as De Gaulle's four centimes when he visited Quebec. Keep yer fuckin' nose out and get yer own house sorted!

I can't for the life of me see the connection - perhaps he can - that UK staying in with the deadbeats will reduce the number of innocent lives blown away by American nutters armed to the teeth with automatic weapons. Or is there another reason for his sally into UK politics?

Having spent eight years in the White House, tho (see what I did there?) I'm not a student of American politics, I am well and truly buggered to see what he has achieved. I wonder if it turns out to be a Yes vote he'll claim UK's continued membership of the EU as his legacy!
 
EalingBlue2 said:
It wasn't you I can't find the post but Japan's ability to ease out of a 230% deficit with innovation and the night of their currency. It's a very real argument about the effects of no immigration though it was not an argument really of much relevance to being in or out
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I recall the post but I don't remember it suggesting that a post-EU UK should follow a Japanese model.

Again, nobody from Out is suggesting having no immigration. We want controlled immigration so that we can forecast the number of people in the country and bring in people with skills that the UK is in need of. If we already have a surplus of builders, do we really need thousands more of them?
 
stonerblue said:
there are currently 4 major building works in my town alone, on top of the 2000 new houses we've had built in the last 3 years. No school in the town though, or cop shop or job centre.
And as for being 'rammed', build em on golf courses, we have more than enough of them..
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To your first point - exactly! That kind of building isn't sustainable and the services don't exist to support the population growth.

The rammed point works on the total number of people in England and the total area of England - it doesn't matter if you're building houses on top of other houses or on golf courses - we'll still have far more people per square mile than most EU countries. I also disagree, I think the countryside (and I'm including golf courses in that) of this country is absolutely stunning and pretty unique. I don't want to lose that in favour of bringing in a few more people who might make the country a little more money.
 
Out for me.

I have no desire for us to be part of a so called 'union' when it's abundantly clear that the advantages no longer serve their original intentions. The EU has become a sinkhole of red-tape with the larger nations constantly embroiled in power struggles. Of course Germany and France don't want to us to leave - why would they?

Whilst we remain they have far more chance to manipulate issues for their own self interests. So do we, but the problem is that they're better at it than us, due to our ongoing reluctance to put our foot down for fear of upsetting the other leading economic nations.

When our own PM lobbies for Britain to be able to opt out of having a 'closer-union' with the EU, yet purports to be in favour or remaining in it, it hardly fills you with confidence. When the US president makes a sound-bite that Britain should remain in the EU, yet this would be the last thing in the world he would advocate for his own country, it hardly fills you with confidence.

Cameron went cap in hand to the EU asking if we could have a proposal that newly arriving immigrant workers would not be entitled to non-contributory in-work benefits for a minimum of four years. Something which makes sense for our economy. Did he get it? No. It was blocked by strong opposition from four central European countries, one of them being...surprise surprise, Poland! No shit Sherlock. He was also shafted with his proposal to stop migrant workers sending child benefit money back to their home countries. No surprise there either.

The issue of migrant workers and immigration is only a small part of EU commitment, and many of those that are in favour of remaining in the EU often use this as a counter-argument, by suggesting that the people who want out do not really understand the full implications of EU membership and focus too much on migration and similar issues. It's the typical 'ah, but you don't really understand the full picture' response.

I disagree, and suggest the migrant worker example above indicates precisely why the EU does not function effectively. 28 member states each having their own agenda, and each having a major impact on other member states (irrespective of their individual economic position) is one of the most stifling things I can imagine.

The fear of trading becoming more difficult if we were to opt out isn't enough for me to want to remain. There are already excessive regulations imposed within the EU which restrict competitiveness and increase administration, therefore the idea that it's much easier trading whilst a member of the EU I find quite hard to swallow.
 
It's interesting how RAGcafe's in/out poll is in favour of staying in and opposite to Bluemoons (72% in favour of staying in the EU FFS not even close).. is that because most of their fans are foreign daytrippers perhaps and like the cushy relations the EU has with each other!?

Not that I'm saying all our hardcore fans are British, but just an observation.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
They are a union it is the very essence of what America is and fundamental to the whole political system and their very being.
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Come on now...yes, it can be called a union, but their system operates nothing, nothing (i repeat NOTHING) like an EU membership. That's a silly point-scoring reply.
 
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