EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%

  • Total voters
    1,050
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I've said it before.German rule the eu,& there no way even if we left the eu it wouldn't affect us still trading as they have a lot to lose..

Brexit would cost German economy up to $50 billion by end-2017 - study

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A car sticker with a logo encouraging people to leave the EU is seen on a car, in Llandudno, Wales, February 27, 2016.
REUTERS/PHIL NOBLE


If Britain were to leave the European Union, it could cost Germany up to 45 billion euros (35 billion pounds) by the end of 2017 as exports from Europe's largest economy would likely be hit, a study by DZ Bank showed on Thursday.

Britain is counting down to a referendum on its membership of the European Union on June 23, with opinion polls showing voters are roughly evenly split.

"There's a lot at stake for the German economy because Great Britain is one of its most important trading partners," DZ Bank economist Monika Boven said.

If Britons were to vote for leaving the EU, the German economy would start to feel the effects in the second half of this year, Boven said.

In that case, the German economy would grow by 1.4 percent this year instead of DZ Bank's current prediction of 1.8 percent, and 0.5 percent in 2017 versus 1.7 percent, the study showed.

The German government expects the economy to grow by 1.7 percent this year and 1.5 percent next year. It has not released separate growth estimates in case of a Brexit.

Given that Germany's annual economic output is at least 3 trillion euros, DZ Bank estimates of what post-Brexit growth rates would look like would amount to economic output being around 45 billion euros lower by the end of 2017, the study showed.

"In our crisis scenario we're even expecting a slight recession in Germany around the turn of the year," Boven said.

Last year German shipments to the United Kingdom surged by almost 13 percent to just under 90 billion euros - the largest amount it has ever exported there. Germany only sold more goods to the United States and France.

Boven said the British market had helped stabilise the German economy at a time when the global economic environment had been tough, so the exporting sector would be directly hit if Britain were to leave the EU.
 
I acknowledged I put the euro argument under the wrong heading of what should have been CBI and also provided other examples of where the IMF had got things badly wrong and not just on Greece. My views and opinions come from first hand experiences working in the financial sector and being based here in mainland Europe where yours are just collection of copy and paste spineless shite that you regurgitate from your remain pamhphlet

you work in the financial sector and get the IMF and CBI mixed up? you mop the floor in the Wythenshawe TSB?
 
When you have finished with your infantile attempts to insult people arse wipe, still waiting for your answer ;0)
 
It was more the terms & conditions that are so shocking, who in their right mind would commit their country to an unspecified debt to an organisation who can not be audited or held in any way liable, that has the power to take legal action but is not subject to the same either as an organisation or the individuals who run it.

No we are not part of this YET, but if we remain in bed with this bunch of crooks we could well get dragged in.
 
It was more the terms & conditions that are so shocking, who in their right mind would commit their country to an unspecified debt to an organisation who can not be audited or held in any way liable, that has the power to take legal action but is not subject to the same either as an organisation or the individuals who run it.

No we are not part of this YET, but if we remain in bed with this bunch of crooks we could well get dragged in.


I am afraid judging by some of the posts on this site people are simply apathetic to this nonsense. They would not care in the least.
 
It was more the terms & conditions that are so shocking, who in their right mind would commit their country to an unspecified debt to an organisation who can not be audited or held in any way liable, that has the power to take legal action but is not subject to the same either as an organisation or the individuals who run it.

No we are not part of this YET, but if we remain in bed with this bunch of crooks we could well get dragged in.

I get a feeling it was probably a rushedpiece of legislation pushed through when Greece was in the shit, I dont have time today to read through all the details but you would hope there was over site, and with it being a loan system there must be tracking with regards to paying the loan back. And you would hope that there are rules set in place to make sure its only ever used for emergency bail outs.

All in all its just another mechanism to help maintain the stability of the Eurozone. Countries in the Eurozone have a vested interest to make it as stable as possible for the long term.


Edit: With all the info being banded about im trying to fact check both sides because both seem to be spouting so much bull its unbelievable.
 
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It was more the terms & conditions that are so shocking, who in their right mind would commit their country to an unspecified debt to an organisation who can not be audited or held in any way liable, that has the power to take legal action but is not subject to the same either as an organisation or the individuals who run it.

No we are not part of this YET, but if we remain in bed with this bunch of crooks we could well get dragged in.


Exactly - as I mentioned earlier - the protections we have today are likely only the 'trade-offs' of self-serving politicians tomorrow.

How long will one of top economies in the EU be able (allowed) to not provide a level of 'support'. Notwithstanding our formal liabilities today/tomorrow, this does demonstrate the direction of travel of the European 'Federal project' - it is plain to see unless you choose not to.

At the risk of sounding a bit like a 'Trekkie' - but if we stay we will become increasingly 'assimilated'.
 
you work in the financial sector and get the IMF and CBI mixed up? you mop the floor in the Wythenshawe TSB?

That's really good I see what you did there! I see we have an intellectual and comedic heavyweight in our midst - speciality in avoiding debate and offering one line quips with a healthy dose of lazy stereotyping
 
It was more the terms & conditions that are so shocking, who in their right mind would commit their country to an unspecified debt to an organisation who can not be audited or held in any way liable, that has the power to take legal action but is not subject to the same either as an organisation or the individuals who run it.

No we are not part of this YET, but if we remain in bed with this bunch of crooks we could well get dragged in.

I am sure they would love to take on a country with almost 2 trillion euro of debt.
 
That's really good I see what you did there! I see we have an intellectual and comedic heavyweight in our midst - speciality in avoiding debate and offering one line quips with a healthy dose of lazy stereotyping

As a mortgage broker, who did you work for?
 
That's really good I see what you did there! I see we have an intellectual and comedic heavyweight in our midst - speciality in avoiding debate and offering one line quips with a healthy dose of lazy stereotyping
Pretty much sums up the past 448 pages, tbh.
 
I am sure they would love to take on a country with almost 2 trillion euro of debt.

Why not, Italy is 2.1 trillion in the hole and signed up, lets not forget its the people behind the EU that literally prints the money, so for the cost of a few bits of paper they get to grab hard assets when it goes tits up.
 
I beg to differ on national debt, our economies are propped up by a Ponzi scheme, debt grows every day and we kick problems financially and environmentally down the road. We rely on immigration across the world to plug the gap by driving productivity and keeping the retired population from becoming too big a portion of the population. You seem to ignore the fact we have a completely unsustainable economic model, we cannot afford to pay for our elderly and if it is not addressed very soon , discusses honestly and the population buying in it will be a catastrophe .

So what do governments do when they have to turn off he very tap that keeps the Ponzi scheme going, they distract and they look to blame somekne. To be fair in the UK it's easy we do what we have done for hundreds of years blame the French and the Germans.

Brexit is sucking all the energy out of policy, out of debate , out of business planning at the moment and we are using Brexit to hide the real discussions. I will admit Brexit is a better distraction than wars in Syria or stopping Transexuals going into women's toilets but all the same it is a distraction.

What worries me is that Brexiters seem to believe all will be alright and everything will be solved by an EU exit, at best things will be the same at worst we could face short or medium term economic problems the economy can't afford.

I am not sure what the future of the EU is and I can see issues in it, but I am damn sure it is about issue number 10 that the UK faces and in ignoring the first 9 we are showing a recklessness that could result in a decade looking in the wrong direction and some very major problems. These problems will not be as a result of Brexit necessarily but will be because we ignored hem to focus on Brexit.
To be certain, Britain has a fair few problems. That said, they pale in comparison to those faced by other countries, many within the EU. Accordingly, having initial, intermediate and final say over the remedies to those problems is EXACTLY why sovereignty is, or should be, so important to Britons.

Like you, I see a fairly painful global reckoning coming, as the "Ponzi schemes" of which you speak cannot last forever. However, we may see a different path to that final outcome. From afar, I see a country that is becoming increasingly reliant on the social pact, rather than personal responsibility. As others have mentioned, it is obvious there are haves and have nots in Britain, both regionally and personally, but that excuse is just that...an excuse. There are today, as there have always been, imperatives to "getting ahead." Some prefer to ignore them and simply blame society for their lot in life, while others dust themselves off and do what is necessary to make the best fist of it. In Britain I see to many of the former and not enough of the latter.

Yes, many of the heavy industry jobs (coal, steel and manufacturing) in Britain have been widely supplanted by services and other light industry. That tide waits for no man, so one either educates and trains or one falters and falls behind. It is a personal choice. THAT is somewhat that is seemingly missing from large swaths of Britiash society in 2016. There seems to be a mentality that "things are bad, someone needs to ... for me" rather than "things are bad, I need to ... for myself."

There is certainly a case to be made that I could have been that guy if I had stayed in th Manchester area, but I doubt it. After all, there was a time when I had $5 to my name in the U.S., and my parents had to file bankruptcy because of a dodgy accountant fucking them over on their taxes and Internal Revenue not caring a bit, but I survived and thrived.

Sad to say, I think the British disease, (which is rampant, especially amongst the lower working classes and unemployed (unemployable???)) is magnified by the "I will do whatever it takes to get ahead" mentality I find myself immersed in here in the U.S. Entitlement (believing you deserve/have something because of who you are), whether it is the silver spoons on the one end or the wooden spoons on the other, is a disease that needs eliminating.
 
I am not saying the recent Remain outpourings are 'bent' - but they are clearly heavily biased - through the process of loading the inputs to the models with worst case scenarios. Every single - I stand to be corrected but think that I am right - source for the recent 'data' has some level of vested interest in supporting the remain camp. Treasury - well that is a given. IMF also. CBI - certainly.

So why don't the Leavers put out their own data?

Why do the CBI have a vested interest in supporting remain?
 
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