EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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TRUE BLUE NO1 said:
lol!...wish it was that easy mate! As they said on the SKY interivew last night...thats a bit like a world war 1 general....standing there waving the flag, saying over the top men and dont have a clue whats going to meet you on the frontline......dont have a clue what the impact will be and what you will be facing.....if growing balls kept the economy afloat I'd be all for that mate but sadly the world doesnt work in balls....its currency and economic growth....not saying that right or how it should be but thats reality....
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All I can say to that is Thank You! Thank You to the souls that fought for us, to the people who were brave enough to take a chance and risk their own lives so that we are here and can have this debate.

I just hope our generation show as much courage, even though there is nothing as sacred as our own lives at risk.

The guy had a point!
 
smudgedj said:
Then we should surrender our sovereignty and turn our backs on democracy for the sake of material concerns?

You´re not one of these MEP´s are you? About to lose your job?
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He!...not saying that mate....just disagree that being part of the EU has been such a bad thing for this country.....and when you think of the potential alternatives....I just dont see that the risk is worth any long term gain....
 
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TRUE BLUE NO1 said:
He!...not saying that mate....just disagree that being part of the EU has been such a bad thing for this country.....and when you think of the potential alternatives....I just dont see the risk is worth any long term gain....
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Sometimes you need to make a sacrifice for a principle. Like going over the top.
 
smudgedj said:
Sometimes you need to make a sacrifice for a principle. Like going over the top.
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You only make sacrifices if you truly believe what you doing is right....many dont believe leaving is the right thing to do and until someone shows the "in's" proof and something more than just a dream or a hope....there should be no reason for any of us to take such a potential risk!...grass isnt always greener as they say....
 
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TRUE BLUE NO1 said:
You only make sacrifices if you truly believe what you doing is right....many dont believe leaving is the right thing to do and until someone shows the "in's" proof and something more than just a dream or a hope....there should be no reason for any of us to take such a potential risk!...grass isnt always greener as they say....
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But sometimes it is. For me the question is will there be sufficient mid/long-term gain to make up for any short-term pain. I'm still uncertain on that.
 
Monkfish said:
...but some of the people Gove is trying to convince to vote leave may lose their job, their home, their family as a result, wonder how a vote leaver would feel if that was the outcome, Turkey's voting for Christmas?
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ask the people in spain, Portugal, Greece etc how well the EU protects and creates jobs. Job loses is a red herring they are just as likely to happen in or out in fact based on some evidence they are more likely to happen in than out.
 
KnaresboroughBlue said:
But sometimes it is. For me the question is will there be sufficient mid/long-term gain to make up for any short-term pain. I'm still uncertain on that.
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Thats my main point mate.....sadly, it takes me 500 messages to get my view across correctly!;) cheers mate!....

"I'm voting "stay" because at the end of the day I truly DONT feel/believe that any mid-long term gain we "might" have is going to be worth the short term pain on the economy"...and its nothing to do with sacrifices....

Question to all...

Do we really believe any benefits will be passed on to the man on the street even if things did improved long term?...You dont think the top 5-10% of the rich over here wont be helping themselves?? The problem isnt just EU and we cant hide from it by running way...... there is just as many rich over here playing the system.....we shouldnt kid ourselves, the first place any extra funding we might have..and I stress "might" in the future, will go to line their pockets....

We could do all this and suffer the short term issues and impact on our lives and still at the end of it all have a conservative party not knowing how to run our country......what an absolute waste! The problems are not only with the EU.....they dont set how much we spend on the NHS, they dont force us to make cuts on services.....its our government and how they handle the budget....leaving the EU will not suddenly make us have a better government....we need to make sure in all this we putting the blame on the right people....running away from the EU will not fix anything....in my opinion!;)
 
smudgedj said:
Not that difficult.

A) Do you want Britain to be a self-governing democracy?
B) Do you want Britain to be a subordinate state of a supreme government for Europe?

People simply need to decide if they prefer A or B
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There's as much chance of B happening as there is of WW3 breaking out following an exit vote. The UK just will not be part of a federal United States of Europe.

If the result of the referendum is an overwhelming Remain vote, well over 60%, there probably will be further steps towards integration. But they'll stop well short of a federal state, and the UK would opt out long before we reached that stage. In any case its looking increasingly unlikely that there will be a huge majority in favour of Remain.

In the much more likely event of a relatively close vote in favour of Remain, no Tory PM will ever agree to further integration. It would be political suicide to do so. They would opt out of any plans for integration and threaten a 2nd in/out vote if pressured to accept such change.

It might not be quite as clear cut for a Labour PM. But a close vote to Remain would mean that many of their supporters or target voters would have voted to Leave. It would be a huge vote loser if they agreed to further integration without offering a referendum. Gone are the days when Labour could simply push through EU prop0sals withour fearing the electoral consequences.

Merkel isn't stupid. In the event of a narrow vote to Remain she would know that further integration plans could lead to a 2nd referendum, which she doesn't have powers to stop. Would she really want to go through this again? Especially as next time it probably wouldn't just be the UK holding a referendum.

A narrow vote to Remain would effectively kill "ever closer union".
 
To refer to last night's analogy about 'going over the top.....'. It comes to a point where we either go over the top or stay in the trench and die of disease.....
 
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Blue Hefner said:
To refer to last night's analogy about 'going over the top.....'. It comes to a point where we either go over the top or stay in the trench and die of disease.....
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5th biggest economy in the world while in the EU?.....staying in the trench and die of disease isnt even close mate!
 
TRUE BLUE NO1 said:
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5th biggest economy in the world while in the EU?.....staying in the trench and die of disease isnt even close mate!
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The EU is dying, that was my point. Immigration out of control, Italy, Portugal etc in the shit and nothing but scare tactics to keep us in!

One of the only reasons they want us to stay is that if we don't other countries will demand and a vote and the EU will end up being Germany and a few Eastern European countries

As you say, 5th biggest economy, I'd back us as a nation to develop and move on to bigger and better things without the ancor of the EU
 
Believe this or not......the UK was the "sick man of Europe" before we joined......and our economy has grown once we joined and again shortly after the single market of goods in 1992....

"That is the EU effect that has transformed not just one car-parts manufacturer in Teesside but the UK economy as a whole"

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377.html#axzz4AdfDFyRF

The growth effect

Britain joined what was then the European Economic Community in 1973 as the sick man of Europe. By the late 1960s, France, West Germany and Italy — the three founder members closest in size to the UK — produced more per person than it did and the gap grew larger every year. Between 1958, when the EEC was set up, and Britain’s entry in 1973, gross domestic product per head rose 95 per cent in these three countries compared with only 50 per cent in Britain.

After becoming an EEC member, Britain slowly began to catch up. Gross domestic product per person has grown faster than Italy, Germany and France in the 42 years since. By 2013, Britain became more prosperous than the average of the three other large European economies for the first time since 1965.

Professor Nauro Campos of Brunel University has estimated how Britain would have fared if it had not joined the common market. He and his colleagues found the best approximation to Britain’s pre-1973 economic performance to be a combination of New Zealand and Argentina, which like the UK fell behind the US and continental Europe.

During the next 40 years the UK economy outperformed those two countries by 23 per cent. According to the findings, Britain’s performance also surpassed the vast majority of 1,000 other combinations of countries whose record had previously resembled its own.

Such studies highlight two main periods when prosperity increased: in the 1970s, soon after the UK joined, and after the EU opened its single market in goods in 1992, a sea change in integration.

Speaking in his factory, Nifco UK’s Mr Matthews says that during his 28 years in the car parts business, Britain’s membership has made it dramatically easier to sell products across borders while pushing companies to become more productive. That is the EU effect that has transformed not just one car-parts manufacturer in Teesside but the UK economy as a whole.

It is a modern-day fact of economic life that Mr Matthews thinks the country should not turn its back on. He wonders why Britain would even contemplate leaving the EU. “You have enough challenges in business,” he says. “Why would you put yourself in a more difficult position?” One of the intriguing questions that will be answered on June 23 is whether such arguments — overwhelmingly backed by economists — will win the day.
 
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cibaman said:
There's as much chance of B happening as there is of WW3 breaking out following an exit vote. The UK just will not be part of a federal United States of Europe.

If the result of the referendum is an overwhelming Remain vote, well over 60%, there probably will be further steps towards integration. But they'll stop well short of a federal state, and the UK would opt out long before we reached that stage. In any case its looking increasingly unlikely that there will be a huge majority in favour of Remain.

In the much more likely event of a relatively close vote in favour of Remain, no Tory PM will ever agree to further integration. It would be political suicide to do so. They would opt out of any plans for integration and threaten a 2nd in/out vote if pressured to accept such change.

It might not be quite as clear cut for a Labour PM. But a close vote to Remain would mean that many of their supporters or target voters would have voted to Leave. It would be a huge vote loser if they agreed to further integration without offering a referendum. Gone are the days when Labour could simply push through EU prop0sals withour fearing the electoral consequences.

Merkel isn't stupid. In the event of a narrow vote to Remain she would know that further integration plans could lead to a 2nd referendum, which she doesn't have powers to stop. Would she really want to go through this again? Especially as next time it probably wouldn't just be the UK holding a referendum.

A narrow vote to Remain would effectively kill "ever closer union".
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A concise and, in my view, well thought out analysis. This looks like being close either way, and you could be wrong in backing the favourite,
but if the EU thinks it can ride roughshod over 49% of the populace, a veritable shitstorm would occur.
 
cibaman said:
There's as much chance of B happening as there is of WW3 breaking out following an exit vote. The UK just will not be part of a federal United States of Europe.

If the result of the referendum is an overwhelming Remain vote, well over 60%, there probably will be further steps towards integration. But they'll stop well short of a federal state, and the UK would opt out long before we reached that stage. In any case its looking increasingly unlikely that there will be a huge majority in favour of Remain.

In the much more likely event of a relatively close vote in favour of Remain, no Tory PM will ever agree to further integration. It would be political suicide to do so. They would opt out of any plans for integration and threaten a 2nd in/out vote if pressured to accept such change.

It might not be quite as clear cut for a Labour PM. But a close vote to Remain would mean that many of their supporters or target voters would have voted to Leave. It would be a huge vote loser if they agreed to further integration without offering a referendum. Gone are the days when Labour could simply push through EU prop0sals withour fearing the electoral consequences.

Merkel isn't stupid. In the event of a narrow vote to Remain she would know that further integration plans could lead to a 2nd referendum, which she doesn't have powers to stop. Would she really want to go through this again? Especially as next time it probably wouldn't just be the UK holding a referendum.

A narrow vote to Remain would effectively kill "ever closer union".
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I can´t take that chance. I´m voting out.
 
smudgedj said:
I can´t take that chance. I´m voting out.
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Thats how I feel about stayng mate.....cant take the chance of leaving....I'm voting "in" and as the report I posted above shows....our economy has grown greater while in the EU than at any time in our recent history....whether we like it or not business and our economy has grown in the EU and leaving could set us back years......
 
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