EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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kevin horlocks wand said:
In Norway which is a left wing country everybody's tax contribution is published. I could look up what you pay in tax and you look up what I pay in tax. It's all transparent.

Also mentally their perspective is completely different. Those who contribute high amounts in tax are actually thanked as contributing to the pot. It's competely the other way round here.

Do not assume all wealthy people are tax dodgers some of the stereotypes you use are pathetic. Like your 'it will take you the same time to go to Benidorm comment. ' A snide jab based on your assumptions about me. Your levels of patronism and stereotypes , socially and economically is as bad as the daily mail.
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Benidorm comment about you? I thought you were from Oldham? The only time I can remember posting about Benidorm was saying it was he biggest English community outside the UK.

My attack wasn't on decent upstanding tax payers it was on tax dodgers, it wasn't on risk averse conservative bankers managing risk it was on those who caused the GFC. Don't take any of it personally I haven't for one second ever thought you are a tax dodger or connected to Benidorm. Don't confuse tax dodgers and high tax payers either they are not the same thing , you seem to be be making even more assumptions than I am accused of .
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
There were plenty of Euro-sceptics who confidently predicted the imminent end of the Euro when the banks collapsed too.
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Yes but Greece and the other Southern European countries still feel it though 8 years on.....we still don't have our dosh back for bailing out the banks.

I agree though the future is hard to predict but that applies to inside the eu as well as outside the eu.
 
TRUE BLUE NO1 said:
I know many might already know this so sorry if I didnt need to bring it up but do you know that even counties like Switzerland (not in the EU) had to have a "free movement agreement and bundles of red tape"? In fact Switzerland have major problems at the moment.....You might be surprised to hear that: Switzerland and Norway have far higher levels of immigration than the UK! People are going to have a big shock if they think running away from the EU is going to change anything, in fact its going to be a whole lot worse.....its like cutting off our nose to spite your face....as mentioned most the problems are alot closer to home and nothing will change until we get our own house in order....Below is another report to show that the reasons some people are giving for leaving the EU are completely misplaced...In the case of Switzerland..."migration and trade are closely bound together in the Swiss relationship with the EU" and if people think we will still be able to tap into one of the biggest, if not THE biggest markets in the world without having "free movement"....many will get a shock......If people are going to vote out atleast do it for the right reasons.....so far many are pointing to issues that are just not going away whether we leave or not......

"Norway and Switzerland's EU immigration arrangements explained. Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but the bilateral Free Movement of Persons Agreement has removed restrictions on EU citizens wishing to live or work in Switzerland"

http://openeurope.org.uk/intelligence/immigration-and-justice/norway-and-switzerland/

Britain's EU immigration debate: Norway and Switzerland are not the answer
Immigration and border control are increasingly cited as the main reasons for why the UK should leave the EU. Those advocating exit often mention Norway and Switzerland as models the UK should follow outside the EU. However, this briefing shows that Switzerland and Norway have far higher levels of EU immigration than the UK as a proportion of their populations. If the UK had the same net EU immigration rate as Switzerland, it would mean nearly 400,000 more EU migrants a year.
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Don't ruin the illusion! They are free as birds almost anarchic in their lack of red tape!
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Benidorm comment about you? I thought you were from Oldham? The only time I can remember posting about Benidorm was saying it was he biggest English community outside the UK.

My attack wasn't on decent upstanding tax payers it was on tax dodgers, it wasn't on risk averse conservative bankers managing risk it was on those who caused the GFC. Don't take any of it personally I haven't for one second ever thought you are a tax dodger or connected to Benidorm. Don't confuse tax dodgers and high tax payers either they are not the same thing , you seem to be be making even more assumptions than I am accused of .
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I am from Oldham , I do not live there now although I wish I had up sticks like you did further....

I asked you if you were on the beaches of Brisbane and you replied with a retort about me getting to Benidorm quicker. Anyway it does not matter. Let's move on.
 
sir baconface said:
You are probably the most ideologically driven poster on this thread and you don't even appreciate the irony of your arguments.

Right, I'm off out with the dogs. Or to you: miserable beasts, subjugated by man and Maggie for millennia to facilitate their nefarious needs.
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I hope i am an ideologically drive poster I certainly should be. The ideologies of responsibility for actions, long term thinking, fairness, equality etc so despised by so many nowadays .
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
I am from Oldham , I do not live there now although I wish I had up sticks like you did further....

I asked you if you were on the beaches of Brisbane and you replied with a retort about me getting to Benidorm quicker. Anyway it does not matter. Let's move on.
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Ok get it, my point was I live about 1000km from Brisbane and you'd get to Benidorm from Manchester quicker than i'd get to Brisbane. Benidorm not picked for any other reason than it was top of mind as it is the biggest UK population outside the UK and where I live Is not far behind.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
I am from Oldham , I do not live there now although I wish I had up sticks like you did further....

I asked you if you were on the beaches of Brisbane and you replied with a retort about me getting to Benidorm quicker. Anyway it does not matter. Let's move on.
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I think he´s just trying to say how fucking huge his country is. When in reality it´s tiny.

image.jpg
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Brexit won't change a thing about immigration to get the treaties the UK will sign up to free movement and the drivers such as Murdoch behind Brexit want lower regulation and cheap labour and economic growth and will make sure it's just as high as it's ever been. Look at all the kerfuffle in Australia, despite all the politics and stopping a few thousand boat people coming (which is an utterly irrelevant number) immigration has stayed just as high, the actual rules have barely changed and the mix of immigration has become more south Asian than it was before. Why because Murdoch loves the politics of it and how it plays for the right and plays to people's prejudice but none of them want it reduced with the effect on tax take, economic growth, productivity and wages it would bring.

If people are voting for Santa because they want Easter eggs they will be sorely disappointed and in a way of it wouldn't prove so damaging for the UK economy it would be entertaining to sit back and watch the utter outrage that will be coming from the little englander portion of Brexit when they realise that some of their own will side with the enemy and sell them out.
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Helmet Cole said:
Who can ignore the advice of such selfless philanthropists as these. Vote in, and keep them from hard times I say. The wealth they create 'trickles' down apparently.
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You want to ignore the people who help start up companies? Yeah they will be doing it to make money but they have to make successful companies to do it.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Yes but Greece and the other Southern European countries still feel it though 8 years on.....we still don't have our dosh back for bailing out the banks.

I agree though the future is hard to predict but that applies to inside the eu as well as outside the eu.
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Baldrick: "What I want to know, Sir is, before there was a Euro there were lots of different types of money that different people used. And now there's only one... type of money that the foreign people use. And what I want to know is, how did we get from one state of affairs to the other state of affairs"

Blackadder: "Baldrick. Do you mean, how did the Euro start?"

Baldrick: "Yes Sir"

Blackadder: "Well, you see Baldrick, back in the 1980s there were many different countries all running their own finances and using different types of money. On one side you had the major economies of France, Belgium,Holland and Germany, and on the other, the weaker nations of Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy and Portugal. They got together and decided that it would be much easier for everyone if they could all use the same money, have one Central Bank, and belong to one large club where everyone would be happy. This meant that there could never be a situation whereby financial meltdown would lead to social unrest, wars and crises".

Baldrick: "But this is sort of a crisis, isn't it Sir?".

Blackadder: "That's right Baldrick. You see, there was only one slight flaw with the plan".

Baldrick: "What was that then, Sir?"

Blackadder: "It was bollocks".
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Helmet Cole said:
Who can ignore the advice of such selfless philanthropists as these. Vote in, and keep them from hard times I say. The wealth they create 'trickles' down apparently.
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ignore all facts
ignore all experts
just walk in a Farage wonderland, when it all goes wrong then retreat to the fallback position of blaming single mothers again
 
Chippy_boy said:
You misunderstand.

What is "bloody obvious" is that we will be worse off if we leave. I have never doubted that for 1 second, and frankly, it is bloody obvious. We have zero chance of negotiating a tariff-free trade deal with the EU, zero. Our trade with the EU will decline. We will have some businesses de-camping from the UK and the jobs with them. We may be able in time to offset these disadvantages with more trade elsewhere, but that will take time at best.

What is perhaps debatable is whether all this is worth it, in order to get full sovereignty back. That's what caused me to reflect for a considerable amount of time.
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I really don't think it's just about getting sovereignty back there are many tens of millions of people across the eu who are seriously disillusioned with this club that you base all your arguments for on how the UK will perform economically in the future. To say the eu's future in it's current format is stable is something that only a deluded fool like lvg could come out with.

Forget about the former chancellors of the exchequer Lamont and Lawson if you view them to be too right wing, but consider Mervyn King's analysis (the chap that presided over the Bank of England for a decade) , he has been very vocal in his many concerns to the direction that this club we are all debating about is moving into the future - For the life of me I cannot understand why people base all their analysis and judgement on the status quo (which is dire anyway). One of his many quotes on this matter:-

Monetary union has created a conflict between a centralised elite on the one hand, and the forces of democracy at the national level on the other.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
There were plenty of Euro-sceptics who confidently predicted the imminent end of the Euro when the banks collapsed too.
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There were two crisis :- first the subprime lending crisis which lead to the collapse of the banks which is what I think you are referring to Lehamns etc (nothing to do with the euro but those spivvy tech guys at the back office of the big investment banks)

second - was the Eurozone crisis which was a symptom of the causes of the first crisis i.e far greater scrutiny of what the banks were holding in Europe as financial buffers. This led to the speculators tearing apart the weaker nations sovereign debt which is why we find ourselves 7 years on in this continuous malaise and that is the sole fault of the construct of the euro.
 
AlgarveBlu said:
I really don't think it's just about getting sovereignty back there are many tens of millions of people across the eu who are seriously disillusioned with this club that you base all your arguments for on how the UK will perform economically in the future. To say the eu's future in it's current format is stable is something that only a deluded fool like lvg could come out with.

Forget about the former chancellors of the exchequer Lamont and Lawson if you view them to be too right wing, but consider Mervyn King's analysis (the chap that presided over the Bank of England for a decade) , he has been very vocal in his many concerns to the direction that this club we are all debating about is moving into the future - For the life of me I cannot understand why people base all their analysis and judgement on the status quo (which is dire anyway). One of his many quotes on this matter:-

Monetary union has created a conflict between a centralised elite on the one hand, and the forces of democracy at the national level on the other.
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I can kind of agree with that (apart from your assessment that it is "dire anyway". I don't think you have much of a view of what's going on in the rest of the world if you think the EU's situation is "dire"!) But nevertheless my view is that it is still better to stay in, and use the growing tide of discontent as a platform for reform... for example introducing caps on migration in "special circumstances".
 
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