EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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yep said:
Remain say we can veto this and veto that and we have opt outs for this and opt outs for that but the EU makes up the rules as it goes along.
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Just watch them reverse Cameron's pathetic concessions after we have voted to remain.
 
Gove questioned on numbers today and frantically backtracks hours later, who would have thought it. No numbers Gove, just rhetoric. When your talking bollocks keep any figures well away, too dangerous
 
AlgarveBlu said:
There were two crisis :- first the subprime lending crisis which lead to the collapse of the banks which is what I think you are referring to Lehamns etc (nothing to do with the euro but those spivvy tech guys at the back office of the big investment banks)

second - was the Eurozone crisis which was a symptom of the causes of the first crisis i.e far greater scrutiny of what the banks were holding in Europe as financial buffers. This led to the speculators tearing apart the weaker nations sovereign debt which is why we find ourselves 7 years on in this continuous malaise and that is the sole fault of the construct of the euro.
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On your second point AlgarveBlu, you have helpfully explained the role of speculators (and the Eurozone) in the Greek meltdown but they could exploit this situation because of structural weaknesses in the Greek economy e.g. Too big a public sector for the size of the economy and rich people paying relatively low taxes. These issues would still need to have been addressed regardless!

The Greeks probably shouldn't have been allowed into the Eurozone!
 
Monkfish said:
Gove questioned on numbers today and frantically backtracks hours later, who would have thought it. No numbers Gove, just rhetoric. When your talking bollocks keep any figures well away, too dangerous
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Of course the Remain side wouldn't spout bollocks to further their cause would they? Perish the thought.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
On your second point AlgarveBlu, you have helpfully explained the role of speculators (and the Eurozone) in the Greek meltdown but they could exploit this situation because of structural weaknesses in the Greek economy e.g. Too big a public sector for the size of the economy and rich people paying relatively low taxes. These issues would still need to have been addressed regardless!

The Greeks probably shouldn't have been allowed into the Eurozone!
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No shit Sherlock ;)
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Ha ha.

That is the nonsense of the debate. Inners present the figures like the eu is an isolated trading block and some magical club that those outside can only look at with envy.

I am just glad an inner put forward the stats for me .....Boom.....
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I agree it's not isolated trading block mate....but if you think we can do a Yaya (have our cake and eat it) people are going to be in for a shock......I've seen reports showing its going to cost nearly 94% of our current deal just to have access to oneof the the biggest markets in the world....we're all kidding ourselves if we think the EU are going to let us have a cheap deal just because we British....EU are going to protect their own, leaving us out in the cold.....Most of the countries like Norway and Switzerland that are out of the EU have still had to pay for the right to have access the EU market and still had to agree on "freedom of movement".....which seems to be the 2 biggest issues for people to leave...where is the common sense in that?...The comment below is from a Norwegian EU adviser....not just some Brit that is to blind to the concerns of staying in the EU.....I really feel staying should absolutely be the easiest decision we make.....I just find it amazing how people are happy to jump off the cliff without knowing how far the drop......even people from outside the EU are saying it would be a bad move for the UK and most have very little to gain by those views....Whether we want to admit it or not...we need the EU and we risk damaging our economy for many years to come if you think we dont......its all straightforward if we willing to open our eyes to all the facts and use a little common sense......just like this guy below.....

"If the UK would vote to leave and then request a better deal, every EU leader would have to refuse. Otherwise, why would the French, Germans and others not demand a referendum and overwhelmingly vote to leave, in order to get their ‘better deals’? As a consequence there could be no compromise, no consensus, and inevitably, no EU Single Market for the UK to access"


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...an-ex-eu-adviser-i-can-tell-you-a7060976.html

Think a post-Brexit 'Norway style' EU deal would work? As a Norwegian ex-EU adviser, I can tell you you're wrong

"Secondly, our two travelling Brexiters were convinced that after a Leave vote, the UK could demand a ‘better deal’ for its European Single Market access. However, the EU (and by extension, any relevant form of international cooperation) is based on compromise and consensus. If the UK would vote to leave and then request a better deal, every EU leader would have to refuse. Otherwise, why would the French, Germans and others not demand a referendum and overwhelmingly vote to leave, in order to get their ‘better deals’? As a consequence there could be no compromise, no consensus, and inevitably, no EU Single Market for the UK to access"
 
Tim of the Oak said:
On your second point AlgarveBlu, you have helpfully explained the role of speculators (and the Eurozone) in the Greek meltdown but they could exploit this situation because of structural weaknesses in the Greek economy e.g. Too big a public sector for the size of the economy and rich people paying relatively low taxes. These issues would still need to have been addressed regardless!

The Greeks probably shouldn't have been allowed into the Eurozone!
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Which makes you question why they were allowed in...
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Haha! I'm just waiting for the EU to be blamed for Boris Johnson's head but on Gaudino's bollox!
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You don't think it's fair to blame the EU for allowing a country to join the Euro which it had no reasonable prospect of being able to cope with, and therefore the resultant misery that's been caused to the Greek people?
 
hgblue said:
You don't think it's fair to blame the EU for allowing a country to join the Euro which it had no reasonable prospect of being able to cope with, and therefore the resultant misery that's been caused to the Greek people?
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Take a look at the Brexiters who cite independent decision making as a good reason for leaving the EU. In a similar vein, the Greeks involved were all adults and nobody was twisting their arm to join the Euro!
 
TRUE BLUE NO1 said:
I agree it's not isolated trading block mate....but if you think we can do a Yaya (have our cake and eat it) people are going to be in for a shock......I've seen reports showing its going to cost nearly 94% of our current deal just to have access to oneof the the biggest markets in the world....we're all kidding ourselves if we think the EU are going to let us have a cheap deal just because we British....EU are going to protect their own, leaving us out in the cold.....Most of the countries like Norway and Switzerland that are out of the EU have still had to pay for the right to have access the EU market and still had to agree on "freedom of movement".....which seems to be the 2 biggest issues for people to leave...where is the common sense in that?...The comment below is from a Norwegian EU adviser....not just some Brit that is to blind to the concerns of staying in the EU.....I really feel staying should absolutely be the easiest decision we make.....I just find it amazing how people are happy to jump off the cliff without knowing how far the drop......even people from outside the EU are saying it would be a bad move for the UK and most have very little to gain by those views....Whether we want to admit it or not...we need the EU and we risk damaging our economy for many years to come if you think we dont......its all straightforward if we willing to open our eyes to all the facts and use a little common sense......just like this guy below.....

"If the UK would vote to leave and then request a better deal, every EU leader would have to refuse. Otherwise, why would the French, Germans and others not demand a referendum and overwhelmingly vote to leave, in order to get their ‘better deals’? As a consequence there could be no compromise, no consensus, and inevitably, no EU Single Market for the UK to access"


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...an-ex-eu-adviser-i-can-tell-you-a7060976.html

Think a post-Brexit 'Norway style' EU deal would work? As a Norwegian ex-EU adviser, I can tell you you're wrong

"Secondly, our two travelling Brexiters were convinced that after a Leave vote, the UK could demand a ‘better deal’ for its European Single Market access. However, the EU (and by extension, any relevant form of international cooperation) is based on compromise and consensus. If the UK would vote to leave and then request a better deal, every EU leader would have to refuse. Otherwise, why would the French, Germans and others not demand a referendum and overwhelmingly vote to leave, in order to get their ‘better deals’? As a consequence there could be no compromise, no consensus, and inevitably, no EU Single Market for the UK to access"
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That trade we conduct isn´t free like you seem to think. Our net contribution to export to EU tariff free is actually more than double the tariffs that we save. Say our export trade is 120 billion and we pay 12 billions in EU subs this equated to a tax on our exports of 10%.
 
I've asked this before but had no takers. Do we need a trade deal with Latvia, Poland, Greece, Lithuania, Portugal, etc? Or just with the likes of Germany, France, Italy and Spain?
 
sir baconface said:
I've asked this before but had no takers. Do we need a trade deal with Latvia, Poland, Greece, Lithuania, Portugal, etc? Or just with the likes of Germany, France, Italy and Spain?
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I'd imagine that we'd need one with the EU as a whole.
 
sir baconface said:
I've asked this before but had no takers. Do we need a trade deal with Latvia, Poland, Greece, Lithuania, Portugal, etc? Or just with the likes of Germany, France, Italy and Spain?
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I would assume we would end up in EFTA, however brexiters don't know what they are voting for.
 
sir baconface said:
I've asked this before but had no takers. Do we need a trade deal with Latvia, Poland, Greece, Lithuania, Portugal, etc? Or just with the likes of Germany, France, Italy and Spain?
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Portugal has to be included in the deal because I refuse to pay any more for my pot noodles than I already do over here.
 
smudgedj said:
I think he´s just trying to say how fucking huge his country is. When in reality it´s tiny.

image.jpg
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Plenty of room for another 176.8 million immigrants then. Perhaps more could be directed there instead of the EU, I'm sure the Australian population wouldn't mind.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
On your second point AlgarveBlu, you have helpfully explained the role of speculators (and the Eurozone) in the Greek meltdown but they could exploit this situation because of structural weaknesses in the Greek economy e.g. Too big a public sector for the size of the economy and rich people paying relatively low taxes. These issues would still need to have been addressed regardless!

The Greeks probably shouldn't have been allowed into the Eurozone!
Click to expand...

Of course Greece would have to re-structure in or out of the eu but it is ultimately the decision of the people on it's current trajectory it will be a zombie state for the next 20 years minimum- I think most people on both sides will agree that the birth place of democracy was the first to loose it in this club.

But it's not just Greece, take Italy for example, the speculators forced their prime minister (Berlusconi) out and a technocrat Mario Monti was placed in the prime minister's job to try and bring down the yields on Italian bonds. Whether Berlusconi going or not was a good thing is irrelevant - it is an example of many incidents where the euro has had a direct impact on a democratically elected leader (now the most Eurosceptic country in the eu). Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Cyprus have all been hostages in one way or another to troika where in reality elected government ceased to exist.

The equation is simple single currency equals joint fiscal policy which by definition needs political union. There is no fudge on that equation.
 
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