Tim of the Oak
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Not long after we were begging the IMF for a bail out and power cuts meant candles were amongst the countries biggest sellers!
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EU referendum
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Not long after we were begging the IMF for a bail out and power cuts meant candles were amongst the countries biggest sellers!
Tim of the Oak
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I think Boris is next PM whatever happens (In will win by about ten points).
Cameron has had an awful campaign and the back benches will perform a bloody coup. Should be a laugh anyway.
Yes some it's ging to be comical. Bojo could be PM for a short spell!
yep
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and we've also gone from the "sick man of europe" to the 5th biggest economy with the EU's help.....and you also going to risk those mortgage rates going back up!
What has George Osborne said?
Chancellor George Osborne has been vocal about how he believes a vote to leave the EU would cause a housing market crisis.
He said at last month’s meeting of theInternational Monetary Fund (IMF) in Washington: "If you look at the view of the experts here at the IMF it’s pretty clear that if Britain votes to leave the EU then prices will go up and there will be instability in financial markets.
"What that means for families is that mortgage rates are likely to go up. In other words, it will be families paying the price if Britain votes to leave the EU."
France is now one of the sick men of Europe but has done no reforms (now starting?) as the UK has done. Nothing to do with the EU. We have a trade deficit of circa £23 billion with Europe.
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To answer, in 1973, the UK had the fifth largest economy in the world and was ahead of China and India.Not long after we were begging the IMF for a bail out and power cuts meant candles were amongst the countries biggest sellers!
So we've gone from 5th to ermm 5th with the EU's help.
At least you won't bang that drum again.
TRUE BLUE NO1
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What position was Britain in 1973?
Hi mate......I posted a report a few days ago that showed we were seen as the "sick man of europe"...(that wasnt my term it was a term given to the experts at the time of the report) when we joined the EU and our economy has since grown to be the 5th biggest while being a EU member......I just believe that leaving will put our economy back years and most people on both sides (in's and out's) agree that there will be rough waters ahead.....the only argument is just how rough its going to be...
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Hi. It was also the fifth largest in 1973 as well.Hi mate......I posted a report a few days ago that showed we were seen as the "sick man of europe"...(that wasnt my term it was a term given to the experts at the time of the report) when we joined the EU and our economy has since grown to be the 5th biggest while being a EU member......I just believe that leaving will put our economy back years and most people on both sides (in's and out's) agree that there will be rough waters ahead.....the only argument is just how rough its going to be...
west didsblue
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Cameron has spectacularly mismanaged the whole Brexit issue from promising a referendum as a means to get re-elected through to his piss-poor negotiations with other EU leaders to clinch his pathetic deal and then being totally duplicitous during the campaign. Whatever happens, I can't see him being PM for much longer but I don't think it'll be Boris that takes over.I think Boris is next PM whatever happens (In will win by about ten points).
Cameron has had an awful campaign and the back benches will perform a bloody coup. Should be a laugh anyway.
Figures from the ONS showed that Europe is gradually becoming a less important destination for UK companies. In 2000, 60% of exports went to other EU countries, but the percentage fell to 58% in 2005, 54% in 2010 and 47% in 2015.
Over the same period, imports from the EU remained constant, accounting for 54% in both 2000 and 2015.
Europe has tended to be a less crucial market for UK service sector companies, many of whom have close business links with the US. Since 2000, the percentage of services sector exports going to the EU has remained at around 40%. Taking goods and services together, the share of exports going to the EU has fallen from 54% in 2000 to 44% in 2015
The latest ONS figures show that Britain had a £34.7bn deficit in the trade of goods in the first three months of 2016, up by £1.4bn on the final quarter of 2015. The deficit with the EU accounted for more than two thirds of the shortfall, with the deficit with non-EU countries standing at £10.8bn.
I was under the impression that the EU were preventing us from increasing trade outside of the EU?
sir baconface
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I think Boris is next PM whatever happens (In will win by about ten points).
Cameron has had an awful campaign and the back benches will perform a bloody coup. Should be a laugh anyway.
Spot on. And bring it on.
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Is that true?I was under the impression that the EU were preventing us from increasing trade outside of the EU?
yep
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Not one to reinvent the wheel so please read this!
Thomas G Clarke- http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/george-osborne-genius-how-think.html
George Osborne is not an economist. He's got a degree in Modern History, and the closest thing he's got to an economics qualification appears to be "O" Level maths, meaning that he's bizarrely underqualified to be Chancellor of the Exchequer.
After brief stints as a data entry clerk in the NHS and a towel folder at Selfridges, George Osborne rocked up at the Tory Party policy unit in 1994. Since he became involved in formulating Tory Party policy the party has suffered its least successful period in history, failing to win a majority in four consecutive elections.
In 2005 Osborne was appointed Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer by the then Tory party leader Michael Howard after the two preferred options (William Hague and David Cameron) turned the job down.
In 2006 George Osborne wrote an extraordinary article in which he heaped praise on the Irish economy for the scale of their free-market reforms and claimed that the UK should attempt to be more like Ireland. Just four years later, when he had become Chancellor of the Exchequer, Osborne had to bail Ireland out to the tune of £7 billion, but that hasn't stopped him pursuing exactly the same economic policies that drove the Irish economy off a cliff.
Since becoming Chancellor George Osborne has repeatedly demonstrated his economic illiteracy by presenting cherry-picked statistics in order to pretend that his failing austerity experiment is working. He often claims that low bond prices (caused by quantitative easing) are caused by his fiscal policies which shows that he's happy to present himself as a man who doesn't even understand the difference between fiscal and monetary policy. Recently Osborne has claimed that low inflation is a result of his austerity experiment, when anyone with a functioning brain should be capable of grasping that it's got far more to do with plummeting oil prices.
George Osborne's background is proof enough that he's not a genius, but his habit of desperately presenting any unrelated economic data as evidence that his policies are working, and his gushing praise for the Irish economy just before it imploded are absolutely clear demonstrations that the man is dangerously clueless.
The failure of Osborne's austerity experiment
In 2010 George Osborne made a number of bold predictions about how his ideological austerity experiment would benefit the UK economy. The mainstream press has long-since forgotten about these fabulously over-optimistic predictions, but they are still available from the Office for Budget Responsibility (here) should anyone want to look at them and compare them with what has actually happened (here).
Eliminating the deficit: In 2010 Osborne promised that his austerity experiment would completely eliminate the budget deficit by 2015. In reality the UK is still borrowing £100 billion per year, meaning that he's failed to even halve the deficit.
Government debt: In 2010 Osborne predicted that the UK national debt would have reached £1.232 trillion by 2015. In reality it has risen to £1.489 trillion, which means he has borrowed £257 billion more than he said he would.
The size of the economy: In 2010 Osborne predicted that the UK economy would grow to £1.916 trillion by 2015, but in reality it is only £1.822 trillion, meaning that he's borrowed more than a quarter of a trillion more than he said he was going to, in order to make the UK economy almost £100 billion smaller than he said it was going to be.
Debt/GDP: In 2010 Osborne predicted that debt would peak at 67.2% of GDP in 2015 and then start falling. In reality the debt has reached 80.4% of GDP and it's still growing dramatically. This means that he's now overseen the longest sustained increase in the national debt since the Second World War!
The UK Credit Rating: Before he became Chancellor George Osborne staked his reputation on maintaining the UK's AAA Credit Ratings, but in 2013 the UK economy was downgraded for the first time since the 1970s.
Worse than Labour: George Osborne continually harps on about how Labour would threaten his "economic recovery" but what he doesn't tell you is that in just four years he's created more new debt than every single Labour government in history combined!
Earnings: One of the strongest indicators that Osborne's ideological austerity experiment is really bad for Britain is the fact that he has overseen the longest sustained decline in wages since records began.The fact that millions of workers are significantly worse off than they were in 2008 thanks to George Osborne's deliberate campaign of wage repressionexplains why economic demand is still so weak and the "recovery" so slow. As a result of Osborne's policies, ordinary workers have suffered the worst declines in income since records began.
These facts illustrate how much of a catastrophic failure George Osborne's ideological austerity experiment has been. The first four sections show that ideological austerity has completely failed in its own terms, and the last section illustrates the fact that the vast majority of workers have paid for this failure through declining wages and living standards.
Thomas G Clarke- http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/george-osborne-genius-how-think.html
George Osborne is not an economist. He's got a degree in Modern History, and the closest thing he's got to an economics qualification appears to be "O" Level maths, meaning that he's bizarrely underqualified to be Chancellor of the Exchequer.
After brief stints as a data entry clerk in the NHS and a towel folder at Selfridges, George Osborne rocked up at the Tory Party policy unit in 1994. Since he became involved in formulating Tory Party policy the party has suffered its least successful period in history, failing to win a majority in four consecutive elections.
In 2005 Osborne was appointed Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer by the then Tory party leader Michael Howard after the two preferred options (William Hague and David Cameron) turned the job down.
In 2006 George Osborne wrote an extraordinary article in which he heaped praise on the Irish economy for the scale of their free-market reforms and claimed that the UK should attempt to be more like Ireland. Just four years later, when he had become Chancellor of the Exchequer, Osborne had to bail Ireland out to the tune of £7 billion, but that hasn't stopped him pursuing exactly the same economic policies that drove the Irish economy off a cliff.
Since becoming Chancellor George Osborne has repeatedly demonstrated his economic illiteracy by presenting cherry-picked statistics in order to pretend that his failing austerity experiment is working. He often claims that low bond prices (caused by quantitative easing) are caused by his fiscal policies which shows that he's happy to present himself as a man who doesn't even understand the difference between fiscal and monetary policy. Recently Osborne has claimed that low inflation is a result of his austerity experiment, when anyone with a functioning brain should be capable of grasping that it's got far more to do with plummeting oil prices.
George Osborne's background is proof enough that he's not a genius, but his habit of desperately presenting any unrelated economic data as evidence that his policies are working, and his gushing praise for the Irish economy just before it imploded are absolutely clear demonstrations that the man is dangerously clueless.
The failure of Osborne's austerity experiment
In 2010 George Osborne made a number of bold predictions about how his ideological austerity experiment would benefit the UK economy. The mainstream press has long-since forgotten about these fabulously over-optimistic predictions, but they are still available from the Office for Budget Responsibility (here) should anyone want to look at them and compare them with what has actually happened (here).
Eliminating the deficit: In 2010 Osborne promised that his austerity experiment would completely eliminate the budget deficit by 2015. In reality the UK is still borrowing £100 billion per year, meaning that he's failed to even halve the deficit.
Government debt: In 2010 Osborne predicted that the UK national debt would have reached £1.232 trillion by 2015. In reality it has risen to £1.489 trillion, which means he has borrowed £257 billion more than he said he would.
The size of the economy: In 2010 Osborne predicted that the UK economy would grow to £1.916 trillion by 2015, but in reality it is only £1.822 trillion, meaning that he's borrowed more than a quarter of a trillion more than he said he was going to, in order to make the UK economy almost £100 billion smaller than he said it was going to be.
Debt/GDP: In 2010 Osborne predicted that debt would peak at 67.2% of GDP in 2015 and then start falling. In reality the debt has reached 80.4% of GDP and it's still growing dramatically. This means that he's now overseen the longest sustained increase in the national debt since the Second World War!
The UK Credit Rating: Before he became Chancellor George Osborne staked his reputation on maintaining the UK's AAA Credit Ratings, but in 2013 the UK economy was downgraded for the first time since the 1970s.
Worse than Labour: George Osborne continually harps on about how Labour would threaten his "economic recovery" but what he doesn't tell you is that in just four years he's created more new debt than every single Labour government in history combined!
Earnings: One of the strongest indicators that Osborne's ideological austerity experiment is really bad for Britain is the fact that he has overseen the longest sustained decline in wages since records began.The fact that millions of workers are significantly worse off than they were in 2008 thanks to George Osborne's deliberate campaign of wage repressionexplains why economic demand is still so weak and the "recovery" so slow. As a result of Osborne's policies, ordinary workers have suffered the worst declines in income since records began.
These facts illustrate how much of a catastrophic failure George Osborne's ideological austerity experiment has been. The first four sections show that ideological austerity has completely failed in its own terms, and the last section illustrates the fact that the vast majority of workers have paid for this failure through declining wages and living standards.
BigJoe#1
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That I will never agree with I cannot think of anything more ridiculous than making a major decision that could have huge effects without a clear understanding of consequences and without a sensible well thought out plan to deal with them.
I wouldn't jump out of a plane and only think about whether I had a parachute on, whether I knew how to use it and how I was going to use it after I was already in mid air!
On reflection I quite like your parachute analogy, though I look at it differently.
Look at it this way, the Brexiters are going to jump and we have a parachute but the trouble is we don't know which kind of parachute we have, that will depend on who is in Givernment after the dust has settled post referendum.
It could be a conical, pyramid, round, square or Ram air..... The type of parachute will determine the direction we take and the speed we travel and until we know who the government is going to be we cannot tell what direction, of th thousands available we will take, nor at what speed we will travel.
Political parties really ought to be developing contingency plans for the option of Leave, and they should be sharing these with the voters.
As I've already told you Brexiter s are not a political party, ergo they cannot produce manifesto promises (even if in the case of Call me Dave, they'd be likely to be broken) and you do know and understand this don't you?
TRUE BLUE NO1
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Hi. It was also the fifth largest in 1973 as well.
problem is mate....in 1973....50% of our export business wasnt connected to the single market that we are now trying to walking away from....
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Just to add to the whole "sick man of Europe debate". In 1973 when the UK joined the EEC, not only did we have the 5th largest economy in the world (same as now), our GDP growth was 7.4% higher than that of France 6.4%, Germany 4.8% and the US 5.6%.
We saw recession later in that decade once we were in the EEC and under a Labour government hostaged by the unions.
We saw recession later in that decade once we were in the EEC and under a Labour government hostaged by the unions.
sir baconface
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What position was Britain in 1973?
Fcuked...by suicidal unions, supine unprofessional management and piss poor quality goods. We have since overtaken France and Italy, if I'm not mistaken, and narrowed the gap on Germany. That would be thanks much more to radical internal reform than "assistance" from the EU.
Our most prolific outer on here would have us return to those "good old days" when high principles ruled the roost.
remember arthur mann
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How old are you ? You don't half talk some shit !Just to add to the whole "sick man of Europe debate". In 1973 when the UK joined the EEC, not only did we have the 5th largest economy in the world (same as now), our GDP growth was 7.4% higher than that of France 6.4%, Germany 4.8% and the US 5.6%.
We saw recession later in that decade once we were in the EEC and under a Labour government hostaged by the unions.
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The US exports $272 bn to the EU now.problem is mate....in 1973....50% of our export business wasnt connected to the single market that we are now trying to walking away from....
There's nothing to stop the U.K. Continuing to do so, especially as we have a huge trade deficit with said single market.
But ignoring that, we are fifth now, were 5th in 1973 and back then, our economy was growing stronger than that of our EU cousins.
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We weren't when we joined in 1973 as I said.Fcuked...by suicidal unions, supine unprofessional management and piss poor quality goods. We have since overtaken France and Italy, if I'm not mistaken, and narrowed the gap on Germany. That would be thanks much more to radical internal reform than "assistance" from the EU.
Our most prolific outer on here would have us return to those "good old days" when high principles ruled the roost.
That all came well after.
TRUE BLUE NO1
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Just to add to the whole "sick man of Europe debate". In 1973 when the UK joined the EEC, not only did we have the 5th largest economy in the world (same as now), our GDP growth was 7.4% higher than that of France 6.4%, Germany 4.8% and the US 5.6%.
We saw recession later in that decade once we were in the EEC and under a Labour government hostaged by the unions.
Good points.....and partly why I feel that most of our issues will not change unless we fix the problems in our own backyard......before jumping blindly off a cliff...and just hoping for the best!;) Which is what we will be doing if vote out, without even knowing what the plan is going to be....nobody knows how bad the economy is going to get no matter how much you and I think we do know...but most seem to agree its going to get worse before its gets better....and dont even know when it would get better....when you count on jobs, homes, putting food on the table for the kids.....I dont bet on a "maybe"....
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Oh you argued against that fucking brilliantly. I'm 35, I work in investments and have an economics degree and on the job industry degree.How old are you ? You don't half talk some shit !
What are your qualifications and which facts did I misrepresent?
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